# Lose your house, lose your vote: Pubs using foreclosure list to block voters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 12, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296 "2008-09-12T16:24:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/61 "2008-09-20T00:31:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > A gutsy move by Conyers. His next election, the Pubbies will scream themselves hoarse about his connection to radical America-hatin’ _Daily Kos_. Conyers has been posting at the DKos for years. He doesn’t seem too worried about what the GOP thinks about that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/62 "2008-09-20T00:36:33Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > They’ll scream even louder as they twist in the wind, hanging each from his own special lamppost… 😛 The _lampost_ method of “recall and impeachment” generally doesn’t involve a lot of screaming, unless one is creative about attaching the noose. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/63 "2008-09-20T00:37:36Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Conyers has been posting at the DKos for years. He doesn’t seem too worried about what the GOP thinks about that. I’m a pessimist, I love being wrong. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/64 "2008-09-20T01:04:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The _lampost_ method of “recall and impeachment” generally doesn’t involve a lot of screaming, unless one is creative about attaching the noose. Ever seen “A Man Called Horse?” There’s hangin’s and then there’s _hangin’s!_ I favor the screaming sort, myself. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/65 "2008-09-20T01:08:07Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Conyers has been posting at the DKos for years. He doesn’t seem too worried about what the GOP thinks about that. Yup–user ID is 48,296 so he’s been around for yonks. Mine’s 162,397 and I think it’s pushing 190,000 these days. Been a busy year! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/66 "2008-09-20T01:19:23Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Ever seen “A Man Called Horse?” There’s hangin’s and then there’s _hangin’s!_ I favor the screaming sort, myself. Oh, by hooks through large muscles in the chest and back? You have a more kindly and forgiving nature than I, and are no doubt a better person. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/67 "2008-09-20T01:26:41Z")
Lots of people from every race have lost their homes. There’s plenty of blame to go around, but there are also plenty of regular people that profited from the housing balloon, too. This isn’t a President’s demense, this housing issue. It’s regulatory, predatory, stupidity and…well, all of the aforementioned. A clusterfuck is what it is. Stop blaming your President, no matter the party for the economy! There is much blame to be placed elsewhere where it belongs. Like the Fed, for example. Or Congressionally voted deregulation. Or stupid banks and lending institutions. Or stupid people that thought they could just borrow their way into a $500,000 home with no money down. Yeesh. It all sucks though, any way you look at it. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/68 "2008-09-20T01:43:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, by hooks through large muscles in the chest and back? Well sure, that’s good for a start.. [QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] Or Congressionally voted deregulation. Or stupid banks and lending institutions. Or stupid people that thought they could just borrow their way into a $500,000 home with no money down. [/QUOTE] Yes, the Republican majority Congress that voted to deregulate, started off by Reagan, that huge fan of deregulation and aided and abetted by the Republican Phil Gramm who is still advising the Republican candidate for president as we speak. As for not blaming the president, why not? He brought out his widdoe veto pen and signing statement pen whenever it suited him so I have to assume he was all on board with all this shit, so yeah, I’ll blame the stupid fucking chimp all I like And why is it stupid to think you can borrow your way into a house with no money down when you get flyers in your mailbox every day telling you that you can indeed do just that? Wouldn’t you be more stupid not to? Sure, it would be better if buyers understood ARMs and balloon payments a bit better, but when you have a mortgage professional sitting across from you explaining how you can just refi in a couple years when you’re making a bit more money and the market has improved your equity situation–and the only houses available in your market are going for a half mill and you’re really tired of paying two grand a month for an apartment, who bears the greater proportion of blame, the buyer or the lender? And there was no stupidity involved on the part of the lenders, just pure greed. I know of quite a few borrowers who were never offered more conventional mortgages that they also qualified for because their lender was getting a bigger spiff for selling the dodgy loan. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/69 "2008-09-23T14:22:10Z")
[Update from _The Nation:_](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081006/dreier) > [@](#): > > Many of those homeowners live in Michigan, where the economy is in free-fall–the direct result of Bush’s misguided economic policies that McCain has consistently endorsed. In the last year, Michigan’s jobless rate has jumped from 7.2 percent to 8.9 percent–the nation’s highest. Michigan had the highest foreclosure rate in the the nation and economists expect it to get even worse as the state sheds more and more jobs. So far this year, 95,272 Michigan residents have received foreclosure notices–13,605 in August alone, according to RealtyTrac. > > So, to rub salt in these wounds, the Michigan GOP hatched a plan to take away the votes of people who’ve lost their homes. As reported in the Michigan Messenger, Republicans intended to use foreclosure lists to challenge voters at the polls. In a conference call with reporters, Mark Brewer, chairman of the Michigan Democratic Party, said that the McCain campaign “wants to add insult to injury by denying those residents their right to vote.” > > Bob Bauer, general counsel for the Obama campaign, called the GOP plan “a new and especially repellent version of caging.” (Caging is a technique used to challenge voters by taking a list of addresses, mailing letters to them marked “do not forward” and then claiming that those voters whose letters were returned no longer live at the addresses at which they are registered and thus are ineligible to vote.) > > Said Bauer: “It is an absolute attack on their right to vote,” and a “completely false and completely illegal basis” to challenge votes. He explained that getting a foreclosure notice is not evidence that the person’s address has changed. In Michigan, homeowners have the opportunity to redeem the foreclosure even after a sheriff’s sale has occurred, permitting them to remain in the house for several months after a foreclosure notice has been sent. In addition, Michigan law allows people vote at their old precinct if they lost their home within sixty days of the election. > > Bauer told the Wall Street Journal that the Michigan suit against the Republicans was meant to send a message to Democrats around the country to be on guard against voter-supression tactics. “This can’t be just an isolated event,” he said. Republicans use these tactics “where they expect the vote to go to the other side. They’re not caging in Beverly Hills. By filing the suit, we are assuring people they can be allowed to vote.” > > Carol Guzman, director of ACORN’s Financial Justice Center, said foreclosure lists would be unreliable indicators of who had been forced to leave their homes. Because state law allows a redemption period of up to a year after a foreclosed home has been sold, “you could still legitimately and legally be in your home and be challenged,” she told the Lansing State Journal. But she believed that the GOP was trying to intimidate voters facing foreclosure from going to the polls in the first place. “I think they’re hoping that there will be people who will just stay away,” Guzman said. > > David Lagstein, head organizer for Michigan ACORN, which has registered 200,000 new voters this election cycle, said, "You would think they would think, ‘This is going to look too heartless.’ " ACORN runs a foreclosure counseling program and has battled the Republican-led State Senate, which has opposed several anti-predatory lending and anti-foreclosure bills. “The Republicans won’t protect homeowners from predatory lending but they try to prey on those who have fallen victim to foreclosure to suppress the vote,” said Lagstein. > > Michigan Republican leaders insisted that they never had such a plan. Carabelli claimed that he was misquoted by the Michigan Messenger. Reporter Eartha Jane Melzer stood by her story. So did Jefferson Morley, editorial director for [MichiganMessenger.com](http://MichiganMessenger.com)’s parent organization, the Center for Independent Media. “The reporting is 100 percent accurate and there is no validity to the claim that statements attributed to Mr. Carabelli were fabricated,” Morley said in a statement. > > \ > > In their lawsuit, the Democrats accuse the Republicans of a “long history” of voter-suppression practices. Obama counsel Bauer said that “this is a standard operating procedure in the Republican Party.” Michigan Democrats chair Brewer told the Detroit News, “Every two years for the last 20 years we’ve seen a Republican Party program to intimidate, harass and suppress voters.” These charges are documented in a Project Vote report showing longstanding GOP efforts to intimidate voters, especially African-Americans, in many states, including Michigan. > > Last week, thirteen senators petitioned Attorney General Michael Mukasey, asking the Justice Department to guarantee that voters are not harassed or intimidated at their polling places. “Foreclosures are devastating enough for affected families and neighborhoods without adding the outrage of disenfranchisement,” wrote Michigan Democrats Carl Levin and Debbie Stabenow along with Senators Barack Obama (D- IL), Charles Schumer (D-NY), Patrick Leahy (D-VT), Edward Kennedy (D- MA), Joseph Biden (D-DE), Herb Kohl (D-WI), Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), Russell Feingold (D-WI), Richard Durbin (D-IL), Benjamin Cardin (D- MD), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), and Sherrod Brown (D-OH). How will Mukasey respond, I wonder? [The DNC/Obama campaign’s lawsuit](http://obama.3cdn.net/bfd196d021540c0a60_i2m6bnkiz.pdf) (pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/70 "2008-09-23T14:58:24Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > It seems this could be easily addressed by having \*every \*voter show a current utility bill, just to ensure that they’re still at the address on their voter registration form. What about if the utilities are in some other resident’s name? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/71 "2008-09-23T15:17:50Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Short of reinstituting a poll tax and taking away women’s right to vote, nothing will approach the egregious Republican antics in Florida of purging the voter rolls based on partial SSNs and names that sounded similar to those of criminals. The fuckers are criminals and traitors and will likely never change. Especially if you add that the task was subcontracted out to a Repub organization to do the deed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/72 "2008-09-24T13:50:42Z")
[RFK Jr. weighs in:](http://airamerica.com/ringoffire/blog/2008/sep/22/rfk-jr-and-pap-your-vote-safe) > [@](#): > > Bobby: “There are about 30 scams the republicans are deliberately using, particularly in the swing states to get democratic voters off the rolls. These scams originate in the so-called Help America Vote Act which was passed after the Florida debacle in the year 2000. It was originally suggested by democrats and republicans but it was passed by a republican congress with a republican senate and a republican president. And instead of reforming what happened in Florida it basically institutionalized all the problems that happened in Florida. And institutionalized a series of impediments that make it very difficult for democrats to register, for democrats to vote and then for democrats to have their vote counted. > > “One of these requirements under HAVA is called “the perfect match” and what that does is little known but it is devastating. A quarter of the voters in Colorado have just been removed from the rolls because of this–just this one scam. And what it does is they use a computer system to compare your registration application to all other government records of you in the state. So they’ll look at your social security records, your motor vehicle records and any time you’ve had any interaction with the government and if there is any information on your voter registration that is different than the information on another government record that they find they remove you from the voting rolls. > > “For example, if I registered as Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and yet my motor vehicle license said Robert Frances Kennedy Jr. I’d be removed from the rolls. If your initial is different, if you leave an initial out, if you leave a “Jr.” out, if you leave a hyphen out in your name. And what they’ve done is a study in New York that said 80% of the errors are errors that were done by state clerks who are taking down this information. And particularly immigrant communities that people tend to vote democratic, people have names…spell Muhammad with an “o” instead of a “u” (Yes, Air America **is** still on the air, BTW.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/73 "2008-09-24T15:32:46Z")
I have two middle names. Some government records hyphenate it as one middle name. Does this mean my vote won’t count? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/74 "2008-09-24T15:42:15Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > I have two middle names. Some government records hyphenate it as one middle name. > > Does this mean my vote won’t count? In some states a person will dispute your right to vote at the polls. You will get turned away or get a provisional ballot, which may or may not be counted. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/75 "2008-09-24T17:32:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [In Michigan.](http://www.michiganmessenger.com/4076/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote) > > :mad::mad::mad: This is a new low, and that’s quite an achievement at this point. After all that happened in 2004, haven’t they learned any shame **yet?!** Against the clearly expressed will of the American people, the Democrats are doing all they can to undermine efforts to control illegal immigration precisely because they hope to build a power base among the immigrants. Adding insult to injury, they have the incredible gall to scream \*“Racism!” _at anyone who dares to oppose it. I carry no brief for the Republicans_, but I can’t see that the Dems are any less shameless than the Pubs. \*The Pubs are undermining immigration control too, but they’re doing it for the sake of cheap labor. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/76 "2008-09-24T17:51:38Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Against the clearly expressed will of the American people, the Democrats are doing all they can to undermine efforts to control illegal immigration precisely because they hope to build a power base among the immigrants. Adding insult to injury, they have the incredible gall to scream \*“Racism!” _at anyone who dares to oppose it. I carry no brief for the Republicans_, but I can’t see that the Dems are any less shameless than the Pubs. > > \*The Pubs are undermining immigration control too, but they’re doing it for the sake of cheap labor. What’s any of that got to do with this? Nobody’s talking about noncitizens trying to vote, here. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/77 "2008-09-24T17:56:26Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Against the clearly expressed will of the American people, the Democrats are doing all they can to undermine efforts to control illegal immigration precisely because they hope to build a power base among the immigrants. Adding insult to injury, they have the incredible gall to scream \*“Racism!” _at anyone who dares to oppose it. I carry no brief for the Republicans_, but I can’t see that the Dems are any less shameless than the Pubs. > > \*The Pubs are undermining immigration control too, but they’re doing it for the sake of cheap labor. What the hell does that have to do with victims of economic troubles voting in Michigan? You lose your job, your house, and now you’re out on the street and can’t vote because of immigrants? Sound more like fat lazy liar republican Americans are too childish to take losing. Fuck em hard. Fuck em raw. I say any American that can’t vote because of a republican challange join a very public class action suit and run them into bankruptcy. The HAVA thing does sound pretty fucking racist. There’s lots of natural born and naturalized Americans with names that have ambiguous angelized spellings. A lot of them are not white. Retool it so it doesn’t potentially filter against any American and then we can talk. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/78 "2008-09-24T18:09:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What’s any of that got to do with this? Nobody’s talking about noncitizens trying to vote, here. > [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > What the hell does that have to do with victims of economic troubles voting in Michigan? If you’re going to slam the Pubs for using shameless tactics to get and keep political power, then the Dems are fair game for the same treatment. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/79 "2008-09-24T18:24:19Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > If you’re going to slam the Pubs for using shameless tactics to get and keep political power, then the Dems are fair game for the same treatment. I’m slamming them for being totalitarian thugs and denying people their votes. Fuck you hard for supporting that. I don’t give a fuck about your xenophobia. Would you prefer a WASP test at the poles? That should filter out alot of immigrants a bunch of Americans too. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/80 "2008-09-24T18:31:55Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > I’m slamming them for being totalitarian thugs and denying people their votes. Fuck you hard for supporting that. > I don’t give a fuck about your xenophobia. Would you prefer a WASP test at the poles? That should filter out alot of immigrants a bunch of Americans too. You need to get tested for rabies ASAP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296.md?page=5)