# "Loser" Sports Records **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 17, 2005, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569 "2005-10-17T06:39:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/41 "2005-10-18T13:38:16Z")
> [@Laughing Lagomorph](#): > > I actually opened the thread to post this one. I remember poor George well. A better pitcher than you might think if all you knew about him was this one factoid, but it will undoubtedly end up being what he is most famous for. He’s certainly not going to be famous for his TV broadcast abilities. I despise him. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/42 "2005-10-18T14:07:42Z")
It’s all over the news since last night’s NLCS game five, but the Houston Astros are 0-5 with the chance to clinch an NLCS and move on to their first World Series ever. According to [ESPN.com](http://ESPN.com), there have been four teams one out away from winning a league championship series or a World Series, but who then folded. The 1986 Angels eerily mirror this year’s NLCS. They were leading the ALCS 3-1, playing at home, playing to go to their first World Series ever. They led the Red Sox by three runs in the top of the ninth in game five of the ALCS, but the Sox started a four-run rally capped with a 2-run homer by Dave Henderson. The Angels came back to tie in the ninth, but Boston eventually won that game as well as the next two to take the series in seven. That same Red Sox team, in the World Series that year, led the Mets 5-3 in the 10th inning of Game 6 of the World Series. Boston gets two outs with nobody on, but the Mets come back to score three runs to win, and then go on to win Game 7. The 1992 Pirates were an out away from winning the NLCS’ decisive Game 7, but fell to the Braves. In other news, the 2004 New York Yankees have the dubious distinction of being the only MLB team (and I believe only the third team in all of American sports) to be up 3-0 in a seven game series (the ALCS) and dropping the next four. ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/43 "2005-10-18T14:27:32Z")
> [@seosamh](#): > > Many of the examples cited above seem to come from “minor” American baseball and football games. Nobody, in the UK at least, gives a monkey’s what happens in anything other than First Class in cricket and whatever the soccer equivalent is. If I’m interpreting this correctly, then no. Not “minor” games, but college or university games. These may be of little consequence in the UK, but many college sports in the US are HUGE. Minor leagues, that is, professional yet not top-tier leagues, haven’t really been touched on in this thread yet. George ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/44 "2005-10-18T19:13:52Z")
Jochen Rindt was unfortunate to earn the record of First and (so far) only posthumas World Drivers Champion. He’ll never live that one down. * * * Overheard at the club: “Axl Rose? Who the hell is that fat, old queen?” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/45 "2005-10-18T19:21:20Z")
> [@Ichbin Dubist](#): > > …snip… > > The losingest baseball francise is the Phillies, who became the first to top 10,000 total losses recently. While the Phillies are the losingist team of all time. (ie. most losses by any sports team) They are still about 2 years away from the vaunted 10,000 goal. From my calculation and cross referenced at [http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/](http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/) There record stands as Philadelphia Phillies & Philadelphia Blue Jays & Philadelphia Quakers (1883-2005) 8679-\*\*9879 \*\* 0.468 5-1 So sometime in 2007 should be a great day in history for them. The Giants are currently the winningest team in Baseball with 10037 wins and Yankees have by far the highest percentage .567 but are of course in the Junior circuit. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/46 "2005-10-18T20:24:55Z")
Quoth **Mr. Goob** : > [@](#): > > You would be surprised at the pride of Buffalo fans, making it to four Super Bowls in a row is itself a record. Tell that to Pittsburg, who have also made it to four Superbowls in a row. Except they won theirs. Of all cities in the US with a major-league professional sports team, Cleveland has gone the longest without a championship. The Indians won the World Series in 1948; since that time, they’ve been to the Series a few more times (1954, 1995, 1997), but never won. The Browns have never even been to the Superbowl at all (though they’ve come tantilizingly close several times… Damn you, Denver!), and the Cavs, well, nobody’s counting on the Cavs to break the drought. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/47 "2005-10-18T20:48:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Mr. Goob** :Tell that to Pittsburg, who have also made it to four Superbowls in a row. Except they won theirs. They won four in six years. They won 9, 10, 13, and 14. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/48 "2005-10-18T22:53:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Mr. Goob** :Tell that to Pittsburg, who have also made it to four Superbowls in a row. Except they won theirs. > > Of all cities in the US with a major-league professional sports team, Cleveland has gone the longest without a championship. The Indians won the World Series in 1948; since that time, they’ve been to the Series a few more times (1954, 1995, 1997), but never won. The Browns have never even been to the Superbowl at all (though they’ve come tantilizingly close several times… Damn you, Denver!), and the Cavs, well, nobody’s counting on the Cavs to break the drought. While Cleveland’s pro sports record of the past 40 years has been quite inglorious there have been several championships since the 1948 Indians. The Cleveland Browns won league championships (which is all the Super Bowl is, with a fancy name) in 1948, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1954, 1955 and 1964. Since 1964, by my count Cleveland has suffered through 119 team seasons without a championship, a team season being a league season when Cleveland had a team in the league, so for instance Cleveland’s failure to win the Super Bowl from 1996 -1998 doesn’t count since Cleveland didn’t play any games during those years. The next highest streak is San Diego at 93, then Philadelphia’s at 88 team seasons, and Buffalo’s at 80. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/49 "2005-10-18T22:57:07Z")
My bad. The LA Rams won the NFL title in 1951, not Cleveland. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/50 "2005-10-18T23:11:45Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > Since 1964, by my count Cleveland has suffered through 119 team seasons without a championship, a team season being a league season when Cleveland had a team in the league, so for instance Cleveland’s failure to win the Super Bowl from 1996 -1998 doesn’t count since Cleveland didn’t play any games during those years. The next highest streak is San Diego at 93, then Philadelphia’s at 88 team seasons, and Buffalo’s at 80. Seattle would be somewhere on that list, wouldn’t it. If you aren’t counting the WNBA, It’s been about 30 years each in basketball, football and baseball. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/51 "2005-10-18T23:26:06Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > He’s certainly not going to be famous for his TV broadcast abilities. I despise him. I had no idea he was a broadcaster now. Where is he on? ---
**Author:** ![vinniepaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@vinniepaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vinniepaz)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/52 "2005-10-18T23:42:40Z")
> [@Robot Arm](#): > > Seattle would be somewhere on that list, wouldn’t it. If you aren’t counting the WNBA, It’s been about 30 years each in basketball, football and baseball. This is truth. Our lone claim to fame is a Sonics win. I think the NBA needs to come up with a better name for it’s championship. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/53 "2005-10-18T23:59:41Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Oops- sorry. The answer to #1 is Warren Moon, who was a very solid quarterback. > > Now, if you want to stick to genuinely embarrassing records, look at poor George Frazier. > > If you don’t remember George, he was a pretty good middle-innings relief pitcher for the Yankees. He lost 3 games for the Yankees in the 1981 World Series. > > There’s good news and bad news for George. First the good news: he isn’t the ONLY pitcher to lose 3 games in a single World Series. Eddie Ciccotte of the White Sox lost 3 games in the 1919 World Series. > > Now the bad news: Cicotte took money from gangsters to lose on purpose. > > Poor George Frazier is the only man to lose 3 World Series games **unintentionally!** Boy do I remember that well. He was so good that year. Once you handed the ball to Frazier, Davis & Gossase the game was over. He did not blow 3 games the whole year and then blew 3 in the post season. Worst part was in Game 4 he gave up a lead off double, was told to walk the next batter and was yanked. Tommy John came in and let both runs score. In game 6 John was pitching well through 4 and got lifted for Murcer who flew out. Bob Lemon was a really bad in game manager. Frazier gave up 3 in the 5th. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/54 "2005-10-19T00:25:31Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > … > > In other news, the 2004 New York Yankees have the dubious distinction of being the only MLB team (and I believe only the third team in all of American sports) to be up 3-0 in a seven game series (the ALCS) and dropping the next four. Oh, sure. Rub that in my face again. ---
**Author:** ![marque\_elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71c47a/32.png) [@marque\_elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marque_elf)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/55 "2005-10-19T03:46:34Z")
The 1962 N.Y. Mets had 4 20 game losers. I’m not sure this is a record but it proved conclusively that you didn’t have to be a pretty good pitcher to get a chance to lose 20 games. ---
**Author:** ![MyNameIsEarl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@MyNameIsEarl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyNameIsEarl)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/56 "2005-10-19T04:58:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Six sixes in a row is one of those “perfect” feats seldom actually seen; not, AFAIK, as uncommon as a 17-dart 1001 but rarer than a 147 break in snooker. 😛 Oh, OK. That clears things up perfectly, then! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/57 "2005-10-19T08:56:32Z")
> [@MyNameIsEarl](#): > > Oh, OK. That clears things up perfectly, then! 😛 I thought it might. 😃 But for those who don’t know… Darts is a game in which hand-thrown missiles are aimed at a circular target about 9’ distant (the exact range varies a little). The board is divided into 20 numbered sectors and a “bull”. The “bull” (centre) is surrounded by an “outer”. Two narrow rings, the “double” and the “treble” overlay the numbered sectors. A dart that hits the board scores the number of the sector it lands in, doubled or trebled if in the appropriate ring, but 25 in the “outer” and 50 in the “bull”. Three darts are thrown at each player’s visit and the two players visit the board in turn until one of them wins the game. Just to be awkward, the score is reckoned from a certain number downwards, such as 301, 501 or even 1001. Since class players can hit the treble-20 regularly, even three times per visit, this takes less time than you might think. However, the last score must always be a double. The “bull” counts as a double, although most players would sooner finish on a double 20 or even a double 16. The reader can do the math himself for the minimum number of darts needed to finish from 301, 501 or 1001. Snooker is pool for grown-ups. 😛 The table is 12’ by 6’, and the object balls are 15 reds racked in a pyramid (like pool balls) and 6 “colours” (yellow, green, brown, blue, pink and black). Each red is worth a single point and the colours 2 to 7 points in the order given above. At each visit, the player must attempt to pot a red, and then a colour, rinse and repeat until all reds are gone. On failing to pot a ball, the player ends his turn (“break”) and the other player steps up. Colours are replaced on the table as long as there are reds on board. Finally, the six colours must be potted in order. By a simple arithmetical process, it can be seen that the maximum score is 15 pairs of red + black (120 points) plus the six colours (27 points). It is a rare enough feat to make the sports news but has been achieved several times; IIRC a few players have done it more than once. /hijack ---
**Author:** ![seosamh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@seosamh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seosamh)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/58 "2005-10-19T10:34:04Z")
“Math”? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/59 "2005-10-19T10:50:47Z")
> [@seosamh](#): > > “Math”? I try to speak the local lingo, old chap. We did it in India and Egypt, we can do it here. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ichbin\_Dubist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ichbin\_Dubist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichbin_Dubist)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569/60 "2005-10-19T13:35:13Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > While the Phillies are the losingist team of all time. (ie. most losses by any sports team) They are still about 2 years away from the vaunted 10,000 goal. > From my calculation and cross referenced at [http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/](http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/) > There record stands as Philadelphia Phillies & Philadelphia Blue Jays & Philadelphia Quakers (1883-2005) 8679-\*\*9879 \*\* 0.468 5-1. I got the stats from [mlb.com](http://mlb.com) (it shows them at 8769-10038), but it’s not clear when they start counting, and my guess is you’re right – I’m sure I would have read something about it when they got the 10,000th loss. I hope the team celebrates this landmark in a suitable way – maybe a throw-D-batteries-at-Santa contest or something like that. Oddly enough, the next-worst record for a long-standing franchise might be that of the Oakland A’s, who were Philadelphia’s AL team once upon a time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loser-sports-records/326569.md?page=4)