# Losing Faith in the American People **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 24, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942 "2003-06-24T04:04:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/1 "2003-06-24T04:04:30Z")
According to a [Washington Post/ABC News poll](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23974-2003Jun23.html)… > [@](#): > > About one in four Americans incorrectly believes Iraq used chemical or biological weapons against U.S. forces during the conflict. Slightly more than six in 10 said Iraq had not, while the remainder weren’t sure. (registration required, I believe) One in four? In a democracy, this kind of mass ignorance is utterly inexcusable. Period. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/2 "2003-06-24T04:14:33Z")
So… How are we going to force people not to accept rumor as truth? People are still sending that e-mail about Microsoft paying me for forwarding the e-mail. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/3 "2003-06-24T04:32:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > **So… How are we going to force people not to accept rumor as truth?** Ten days in jail and a $200 fine. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/4 "2003-06-24T04:38:09Z")
Funny. 🙂 But I also think that’s part of the answer to the OP. Not only can you not legislate morality, you can’t legislate inteligence. Too bad… ---
**Author:** ![Lazarus7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/67e7ee/32.png) [@Lazarus7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lazarus7)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/5 "2003-06-24T05:08:22Z")
mmm … embrace a ruling class … Republic … _smile_ ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/6 "2003-06-24T05:25:51Z")
Here’s the wording of the question: “Based on what you know or have heard, do you believe that Iraq did or did not use chemical or biological weapons against U.S. troops during the war earlier this year?” What’s wrong with “believing” that this might have been the case? If I believed that the Pentagon has been covering up some kind of “Gulf War syndrome” from the 1991 conflict, I might also tend to believe that history might have repeated itself. Given Bush’s continued 68% approval rating, are leftist Democrats starting to despair of the very concept of democracy? ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/7 "2003-06-24T06:16:34Z")
Wasn’t it Plato who said that a people gets the government which it deserves? ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/8 "2003-06-24T06:21:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > \*\*Here’s the wording of the question: > “Based on what you know or have heard, do you believe that Iraq did or did not use chemical or biological weapons against U.S. troops during the war earlier this year?” > > What’s wrong with “believing” that this might have been the case? If I believed that the Pentagon has been covering up some kind of “Gulf War syndrome” from the 1991 conflict, I might also tend to believe that history might have repeated itself.\*\* Rubbish. You’ve imagined the world “might” into the question. Do you believe that Iraq did or did not use rubber chickens against U.S. troops? An answer, “yes, I believe Iraq did use rubber chickens”, would indicate that the respondent is an idiot. As are 25% of the respondents to the poll in question. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/9 "2003-06-24T06:25:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissa \* > \*\*Wasn’t it Plato who said that a people gets the government which it deserves? \*\* Yes, but wasn’t it Murdoch (and others) who said that the media is dictated by the _people_ and they (the media) only report what the people want to hear? ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/10 "2003-06-24T06:26:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kambuckta \* > \*\*Yes, but wasn’t it Murdoch (and others) who said that the media is dictated by the _people_ and they (the media) only report what the people want to hear? \*\* Don’t forget the corporate sponsors, dear. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/11 "2003-06-24T06:45:40Z")
This is really getting kind of sad, you all. 67% of respondants believe that Bush is doing a good job in Iraq. 68% approve of the job Bush is doing as president. Over 60% of respondants believe that the war was justified even if WMDs are never found in Iraq. But, ooh! ooh! Less than a quarter of respondants “incorrectly believe” (in the Washington Post’s non-editorializing journalistic judgment) that chemical or biological arms were used on US troops. If those folks are idiots, can we use the same brush to tar the people who “incorrectly believed” that thousands of artifacts were looted from Baghdad museums, instead of one or two dozen? In any case, if the American people are idiots and you wish to imply that they no longer deserve democratic government, at least have the balls to identify your real beef with them–presumably Bush’s popularity and unwavering approval of the Iraq war. As it stands, you’re making yourselves look like pathetic ankle biters. ---
**Author:** ![Andy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Andy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/12 "2003-06-24T06:46:10Z")
[Kent Brockman] I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Democracy simply does not work. [/Kent Brockman] ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/13 "2003-06-24T06:50:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Andy \* > \*\*[Kent Brockman] > I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Democracy simply does not work. > [/Kent Brockman] \*\* I encourage you to spread this message to all of your “democratic” friends and urge them to refrain from participating in the sham presidential election next year. ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/14 "2003-06-24T07:22:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > \*\*In any case, if the American people are idiots and you wish to imply that they no longer deserve democratic government, at least have the balls to identify your real beef with them–presumably Bush’s popularity and unwavering approval of the Iraq war. As it stands, you’re making yourselves look like pathetic ankle biters. \*\* With all due respect, you’re being little oversensitive. (1) I don’t care about Bush’s popularity and the American public’s approval of the war. It doesn’t bother me. I’m not part of your population. (2) The result of the reported poll is disturbing – heck, ignorance always is – but at the time, it’s grimly amusing. Hence, people will be inclined to crack jokes and make jibes about democracy failing. > [@](#): > > \*\*But, ooh! ooh! Less than a quarter of respondants “incorrectly believe” (in the Washington Post’s non-editorializing journalistic judgment) that chemical or biological arms were used on US troops. \*\*(3) Waving your hands and dismissing the ignorance of 25% of the respondents to the poll will not make it go away. I don’t care about Bush and his popularity. I have no partisan axe to grind. The fact still remains that a substantial proportion of the American public is misinformed about the use of chemical and biological arms by Iraq. That’s all. There’s no need to have a hissy-fit about partisanship. Many of us don’t give a shit about the sides you take. ---
**Author:** ![Erroneous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71c47a/32.png) [@Erroneous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erroneous)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/15 "2003-06-24T07:32:24Z")
> [@](#): > > If those folks are idiots, can we use the same brush to tar the people who “incorrectly believed” that thousands of artifacts were looted from Baghdad museums, instead of one or two dozen? > [@](#): > > U.S. and Iraqi officials have confirmed the theft of at least 6,000 artifacts from Iraq’s National Museum of Antiquities during a prolonged looting spree as U.S. forces entered Baghdad two months ago, a leading archaeologist said yesterday. > > University of Chicago archaeologist McGuire Gibson said the U.S. Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement told him June 13 that the official count of missing items had reached 6,000 and was climbing as museum and Customs investigators proceeded with an inventory of three looted storerooms. > > The June 13 total was double the number of stolen items reported by Customs a week earlier, and Gibson suggested the final tally could be “far, far worse.” Customs could not immediately obtain an updated report, a spokesman said. From [here](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17897-2003Jun20.html). (Washington Post, regestration required to view article) ---
**Author:** ![Swampwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Swampwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swampwolf)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/16 "2003-06-24T15:05:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Soup\_du\_jour \* > \*\* In a democracy, this kind of mass ignorance is utterly inexcusable \*\* Although I agree with you about mass ignorance being utterly inexcusable, what does democracy have to do with it? > [@](#): > > a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections from [www.m-w.com](http://www.m-w.com) ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/17 "2003-06-24T15:16:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > But, ooh! ooh! Less than a quarter of respondants “incorrectly believe” (in the Washington Post’s non-editorializing journalistic judgment) that chemical or biological arms were used on US troops. > > If those folks are idiots, can we use the same brush to tar the people who “incorrectly believed” that thousands of artifacts were looted from Baghdad museums, instead of one or two dozen? As **Erroneous** pointed out, there were in fact news reports stating that the latter had happened. It was only revealed later that museum workers had hidden most of the items and lied to keep looters away. When, pray tell, did the American news media report that our troops had chemical/biological weapons used against them in this conflict? ---
**Author:** ![Galanthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Galanthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galanthus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/18 "2003-06-24T15:20:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blessedwolf \* > \*\*Although I agree with you about mass ignorance being utterly inexcusable, what does democracy have to do with it? > from \*\* Democracy can’t function in the context of mass ignorance. If people don’t know what is happening how can they hope to vote on it. My personal opinion is that democratic states ( or at least democracy in those nation states ) are heavily undermined by partisan and shallow media. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/19 "2003-06-24T15:24:21Z")
Well, how many times was it that we saw embedded reporters and soldiers putting on chemical weapons gear when an Iraqi missile was reported? Pretty frequently in the first week or so, as I recall. That doesn’t excuse the ignorance, of course, but it does help to explain it. ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942/20 "2003-06-24T15:58:22Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly_ > **In any case, if the American people are idiots and you wish to imply that they no longer deserve democratic government, at least have the balls to identify your real beef with them–presumably Bush’s popularity and unwavering approval of the Iraq war. As it stands, you’re making yourselves look like pathetic ankle biters.** Er, no. All I’m saying is that the American people need to get more educated about events if they are going to make an educated decision about governance. I would be saying the same thing if a quarter of Americans thought that Monica Lewinsky was a paid agent of some conservative cabal. Besides, what possible reason would Bush have to conceal the use of WMD against our troops, after we win the war? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-faith-in-the-american-people/183942.md?page=2)