# Losing religious freedoms under Obama - where did this idea come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 22, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473 "2012-10-22T00:54:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/1 "2012-10-22T00:54:45Z")
This is neither a debate or even really an opinion questions. I’m asking about the source of an idea I keep running into from some super conservatives who are against Obama. Recently, I’ve seen the following posts online and I have no idea where these ideas come from. > [@](#): > > Obama’s policies are clearly eroding religious liberty and turning the U.S. toward socialism. > [@](#): > > A vote for a 3rd party may make you feel better about yourself, but then check in with me in 4 years to see what liberties you have left! I also met and old friend from college. I asked him where he attends church currently. He said, “In my home with others. If things continue the way they do…that might be where we have to meet in the future!” I had no idea what he was talking about. Where did this idea that religious liberties have been reduced, or even changed one bit, come from? 😕 Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/2 "2012-10-22T00:56:58Z")
Oh, if this does have to be moved or something, it’s cool. I would prefer not to have some kind of debate in this thread, though; I just honestly want to know the source of the idea that liberties have changed over the last 4 years. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/3 "2012-10-22T01:03:07Z")
There was a [big to-do earlier this year](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2012-01-29/catholic-birth-control-protest/52874660/1) over a rule requiring employer-provided health insurance to cover contraception. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/4 "2012-10-22T01:46:25Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > There was a [big to-do earlier this year](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2012-01-29/catholic-birth-control-protest/52874660/1) over a rule requiring employer-provided health insurance to cover contraception. Is that the source of all the silliness I keep hearing, then? That’s a fairly odd thing to extrapolate out to massive loss of religious freedoms…that could push Christians into homes for “secret church”. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/5 "2012-10-22T01:51:21Z")
In Arizona a man was [jailed for hosting bible study programs](http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/11/arizona-pastor-jailed-for-hosting-bible-studies-in-his-home) in his home. The charge was essentially a building code violation. But at least one legal analyst, [Alan C. Weinstein](http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-01-17/news/michael-salman-wants-to-build-a-church-in-his-backyard-his-neighbors-aren-t-buying-it/4/) is the director of the Law & Public Policy Program at the Cleveland-Marshall College of Law in Cleveland, noted that if he was having the same number of people over to his home to watch sports on tv then it would have not been a problem. > [@Alan Weinstein](#): > > “Say I just bought a 63-inch TV, and every Sunday at 11 a.m., I have 20 people over my house to worship at the church of the NFL,” Weinstein says. “There are probably football fans who do that every Sunday. And if they don’t stop that, they can’t stop a Bible study that’s meeting once a week, either.” How this has anything to do with Obama is a bit of a mystery but some would see it as a restriction on activity because of the religious nature of the activity. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/6 "2012-10-22T01:59:55Z")
Under the Obama administration, the government is doing more to stop religious groups from imposing their morality on the rest of the population that doesn’t want or need it. To them, not being allowed to tell others what to do with their genitals is the same as throwing them in gulag. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/7 "2012-10-22T02:02:22Z")
I don’t know if a GQ answer is possible. However, broadly speaking, when I have heard challenges to religious people espousing this viewpoint, they have tended to refer to things like: 1/ moves towards secularisation of cultural icons (like referring to the late December holidays using secular language, instead of as “Christmas” or similar for example) 2/ removal of religious symbols from government (like requiring the ten commandments to be removed from a courthouse) 3/ use of anti-discrimination law against people or institutions who refuse to provide products or services on religious grounds 4/ passing of laws with broad application which clash with certain religious belief (like the compulsory heath insurance issue given above). Whether this sort of thing is actually a trend that justifies the fears alluded to in the OP is a GD question. I think there is a slow move towards secularisation of at least some parts of the public sphere in many western countries. The perception that this will be compulsorily extended into suppression of private or personal religion is probably unsupported. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/8 "2012-10-22T03:13:47Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I don’t know if a GQ answer is possible. However, broadly speaking, when I have heard challenges to religious people espousing this viewpoint, they have tended to refer to things like: > > 1/ moves towards secularisation of cultural icons (like referring to the late December holidays using secular language, instead of as “Christmas” or similar for example) > > 2/ removal of religious symbols from government (like requiring the ten commandments to be removed from a courthouse) > > 3/ use of anti-discrimination law against people or institutions who refuse to provide products or services on religious grounds > > 4/ passing of laws with broad application which clash with certain religious belief (like the compulsory heath insurance issue given above). > > Whether this sort of thing is actually a trend that justifies the fears alluded to in the OP is a GD question. > > I think there is a slow move towards secularisation of at least some parts of the public sphere in many western countries. The perception that this will be compulsorily extended into suppression of private or personal religion is probably unsupported. Thing is, even up to the last one if we count the specific case of the health insurance mandate as just one instance of a general trend, every one of those phenomena antedates the Obama administration, heck, they antedate the Clinton administration. The OP’s friend is buying into a Jack Chick/“Left Behind” type of Endtimes fearmongering, even as the political and social leadership becomes if anything even more ostensibly pious. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/9 "2012-10-22T03:33:10Z")
Could be related to the conviction that Obama is going to take away everyone’s guns. It helps people feel like they are part of something meaningful and noble, and larger than themselves, if they believe they are persecuted. Any scrap of evidence even if imaginary or tangential is marshaled toward this goal. But you know? People who feel that their religious beliefs are held in contempt by the educated sophisticated elites who seem to hold the power in this country? Perhaps they aren’t completely wrong. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/10 "2012-10-22T03:53:08Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I don’t know if a GQ answer is possible. However, broadly speaking, when I have heard challenges to religious people espousing this viewpoint, they have tended to refer to things like: > > 1/ moves towards secularisation of cultural icons (like referring to the late December holidays using secular language, instead of as “Christmas” or similar for example) > > 2/ removal of religious symbols from government (like requiring the ten commandments to be removed from a courthouse) > > 3/ use of anti-discrimination law against people or institutions who refuse to provide products or services on religious grounds > > 4/ passing of laws with broad application which clash with certain religious belief (like the compulsory heath insurance issue given above). > > Whether this sort of thing is actually a trend that justifies the fears alluded to in the OP is a GD question. > > I think there is a slow move towards secularisation of at least some parts of the public sphere in many western countries. The perception that this will be compulsorily extended into suppression of private or personal religion is probably unsupported. How is the example in #2 something to be laid at Obama’s feet? Sure, it’s ongoing, but the big media to-do about that happened in 2005. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/11 "2012-10-22T03:58:44Z")
Hey, I’m just answering the GQ question. I never said people’s beliefs are logical. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/12 "2012-10-22T04:04:44Z")
Based on the religious people I know on the Internet (I know a lot; mostly family members) this seems to be 100% about the contraception coverage in the ACA. Requiring religious organizations with secular employees to include contraceptive coverage in the insurance plans they were already offering these employees apparently constitutes the destruction of religious liberty in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/13 "2012-10-22T04:19:11Z")
Well, I will direct you to Snopes. Obama has had the largest number of weird, fact-less hate rumors started about him, by a huge majority. This could well be just another 'faketoid" . (A new word, what do you dudes think?) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/14 "2012-10-22T04:28:34Z")
Republican politicians stirring up fears in order to get votes. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/15 "2012-10-22T04:34:41Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Based on the religious people I know on the Internet (I know a lot; mostly family members) this seems to be 100% about the contraception coverage in the ACA. This. There was a nationwide [Stand Up For Religious Freedom Rally](http://standupforreligiousfreedom.com/) yesterday. [Here’s a coverage of the rally in our city](http://blog.al.com/breaking/2012/10/speakers_at_huntsvilles_religi.html#incart_river) headed by Roy Moore. From that article: > [@](#): > > The rallies oppose language in the federal health care law that requires employers to offer a minimum standard of coverage for family planning. Speakers argued this violates the First Amendment right to freedom of religion for employers who do not believe in using birth control. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/16 "2012-10-22T05:22:43Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > In Arizona a man was [jailed for hosting bible study programs](http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/11/arizona-pastor-jailed-for-hosting-bible-studies-in-his-home) in his home. The charge was essentially a building code violation. Damn that Obama, driving religion into the churches! > [@Smapti](#): > > Under the Obama administration, the government is doing more to stop religious groups from imposing their morality on the rest of the population that doesn’t want or need it. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/17 "2012-10-22T05:33:18Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > There was a [big to-do earlier this year](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2012-01-29/catholic-birth-control-protest/52874660/1) over a rule requiring employer-provided health insurance to cover contraception. Sure, but that is a symptom, nor a cause. The paranoid talk on the American right about Christians becoming a persecuted minority in America was widespread long before that, and, indeed, long before Obama became president. You would be very hard pressed to find a Catholic in any of the many other countries whose health care systems make contraception available, who believes that that provision constitutes an attack on their religion. (Well, maybe a handful in Ireland.) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/18 "2012-10-22T05:54:05Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > You would be very hard pressed to find a Catholic in any of the many other countries whose health care systems make contraception available, who believes that that provision constitutes an attack on their religion. (Well, maybe a handful in Ireland.) I tend to agree, although I think most of those systems are provided directly by government, rather than through employers. So there is no opportunity in those countries for employers with religious leanings to get their knickers in a twist about having health plans that cover contraception. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/19 "2012-10-22T15:57:15Z")
Given that this concerns political/religious issues, let’s move it over to GD. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![humblebumble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@humblebumble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humblebumble)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473/20 "2012-10-22T23:21:35Z")
It sounds like people are trying to find conspiracies associated with Obama in order to fulfill their own conservative political agenda. I’ve also heard people say that since Obama is black, he can’t be a good leader. That he’s a communist without fully understanding what the term actually means (just because someone wears red does not make them a communist). That he’s the anti-Christ. Get the picture? [sarcasm] Oh, and of course Romney will save us! We have no clue what he’s going to do, but we need to trust him. Trust him… [/sarcasm] Flip flop. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/losing-religious-freedoms-under-obama-where-did-this-idea-come-from/638473.md?page=2)