# Loss of a culture – who cares? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 3, 2005, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271 "2005-11-03T10:46:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/21 "2005-11-04T07:09:32Z")
I can’t think of anything I learned from an older child that was actually _true_. I’m sure child culture is changing, though I can’t picture it as anything new. it has to make a difference that so many kids here are never far out of touch with their parents anymore. Twelve or 15 years ago, I could go hang out and roam around town for hours, and all I was expected to do was call home periodically and say where I was. I found that onerous and often didn’t do it, and as a result, they couldn’t find me unless I was willing to interrupt the fun. My youngest brother was given a little walkie-talkie thing a few years ago and had to take it with him if he was going to the playground a few blocks away. He got a cellphone at age 12. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/22 "2005-11-04T12:34:06Z")
> [@hildea](#): > > My children knew the main points of the Star Wars mythology long before they’d seen any of the films. I’m not sure anything important is lost if the archetypical bad guy is Darth Vader instead of the troll king inside the Dovre mountains. They know kids’ songs, and create and share their own parodies (with that unmistakable touch of kiddie humour). I’m with you, I think. I suddenly got profoundly reassured about this issue last night when I read in Stephen Fry’s _The Ode Less Travelled_ about a Star Wars-themed children’s jumping rhyme that he says was popular in the eighties: “Why do you bother me? Go to hell!” “I am your destiny. Can’t you tell?” “You’re not my father. Eat my shorts.” “Come to the dark side. Feel the force.” If that’s any indication, kid-culture is as alive and kicking nowadays as it’s ever been. Now, could somebody please get that goddamn jingle out of my head? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/23 "2005-11-04T13:07:23Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > The open spontaneous children’s space where children would run around in big groups with many children of all ages, not under strict adult supervision, and where the older children would teach the younger children, it hardly exists any more. I lament the loss of this as much as you do. I grew up in a middle class area. There was a park about four blocks away. I remember wanting to be old enough to go there, as it was filled with kids. When I finally could go I remeber being a little frightened. Not knowing how to interact with all the kids, particulalry the BIGGER kids. We lived in the park. First playing and avoiding the bigger kids, then becoming them. Therre was a big corner lot on the way to the playground that was part of a historic site. It was fairly well tended. But no matter what they did, they couldn’t stop kids from curtting across on their bikes and wearing a path in the grass. I go back now and see perfect grass in that lot, with no path. I drive over to the playground and it is empty, no kids. Yet, the schools have the same student populations, It makes me sad for the kids. Everything is organized. Planned. I truly believe these kids are missing out on some important developmental stuff. Sure, they’re smarter than we were, meaning they know more at a particular age. But what’s the cost? I feel so lucky to have been a kid at a time when parents kicked kids out of the house if it wasn’t raining, in essence saying, go figure it out. But be home for dinner or they’ll be hell to pay. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/24 "2005-11-04T17:12:28Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > It bothers me that all my nephews and nieces know what a Smurfette is but have no idea the name all the members of Paul Bunyun’s team had. I was born in 1961, and raised and have always lived in Michigan. I have no idea what the name of all the members of Paul Bunyan’s team were, and AFAIK I never when I was a child knew this, and since have forgotten it. And MI is in the Great Lakes region. It ain’t like I was raised in Hawaii. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/25 "2005-11-04T18:48:54Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > I was born in 1961, and raised and have always lived in Michigan. I have no idea what the name of all the members of Paul Bunyan’s team were, and AFAIK I never when I was a child knew this, and since have forgotten it. And MI is in the Great Lakes region. It ain’t like I was raised in Hawaii. I try not to post “me too” posts, but … me too. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/26 "2005-11-04T19:06:55Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > I was born in 1961, and raised and have always lived in Michigan. I have no idea what the name of all the members of Paul Bunyan’s team were, and AFAIK I never when I was a child knew this, and since have forgotten it. And MI is in the Great Lakes region. It ain’t like I was raised in Hawaii. My childhood memories are more important than your childhood memories! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/27 "2005-11-04T19:22:32Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > So he is a real part of American folklore. And I am the only one who knows the name of every man on his crew. Hell, I didn’t even know he _had_ a team. I knew about the ox, though. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/28 "2005-11-04T19:31:07Z")
My kids are six and seven. They are constantly amazed when they start singing playground songs and their mother can finish them. Though I am trying to convince them that some of those songs are supposed to be “kid secrets” adults don’t know about (if I have to hear “jingle bells, Batman smells” one more time I may lose it). There are somethings from my childhood that my children will miss - i.e. I don’t thing they play dodge ball any more in gym (and I’m not sad over that), but the same hand games, songs, and team picking mechanisms (“my mother and your mother were out hanging clothes, my mother hit your mother right in the nose”) all seem to be in use. I’m waiting for my daughter to get old enough for cats cradle. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/29 "2005-11-05T22:34:03Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > uh? What a depressing thought. That would mean we were doomed to go around recreating the same things in all eternity. Perhaps Cecil is a stoic? Also it would mean all cultures around the globe are essentially the same and always have been – can’t agree with you there. I find it comforting…it is a very _Human_ thing, and therefore imperishable. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/30 "2005-11-05T22:54:46Z")
😃😃 goose, goose, duck gone forever? 😃😃😃😛 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/31 "2005-11-05T23:19:08Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > 😃😃 > > goose, goose, duck > gone forever? > 😃😃😃😛 [Of course not](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/member.php). 😃😃😃😛 ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/32 "2005-11-05T23:34:41Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > My childhood memories are more important than your childhood memories! UP UP DOWN DOWN B A (SELECT) START Go. I have taught you all you need to know. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/33 "2005-11-06T13:16:44Z")
> [@Wolfian](#): > > UP UP DOWN DOWN B A (SELECT) START > > Go. I have taught you all you need to know. You’ve taught nothing! It’s UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT RIGHT B A (SELECT) START My Contra knowledge is unsurpassed! I am King of the Hill! Do kids still play King of the Hill? Or has that fallen away thanks to the “Won’t someone think of the children!” crowd? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/34 "2005-11-06T13:22:18Z")
Shit! I mean UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT B A (SELECT) START That’s the ticket ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/35 "2005-11-06T13:45:13Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > NO, PB was certainly old by the American Civil War as a regional legend in the Great Lakes area. Linguistic clues seem to indicate a French-Canadian origin of at least part of the stories. [The Master Speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020510.html). It appears you’re both right. Or both wrong, depending. > [@Cecil](#): > > Scholars have long debated the authenticity of the Bunyan tales. In his 1940 article “Paul Bunyan, Myth or Hoax?” Carleton C. Ames argued that there was little evidence the stories were widely told among loggers before appearing in print. However, interviews with retired lumberjacks turned up good evidence that Paul Bunyan stories had circulated at logging camps in the U.S. and Canada in the 1880s and '90s and possibly earlier. The name Bunyan may derive from Bon Jean, a trickster in French Canadian folklore also known as Ti Jean or Petit Jean. But that seems doubtful–for one thing, Petit Jean is petite. > > What does seem clear is that much of the Paul Bunyan legend was invented by writers who were paid to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/36 "2005-11-06T13:48:01Z")
Second letter is an ‘L.’ ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/37 "2005-11-06T14:24:30Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > I don’t think it’s the _game_ that’s important. It’s what the child learns through cooperative play: following rules, group problem-solving, etc. . I think that what’s important is that the kids have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271/38 "2005-11-06T20:25:34Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > You’ve taught nothing! > > It’s UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT RIGHT B A (SELECT) START > > My Contra knowledge is unsurpassed! I am King of the Hill! > > Do kids still play King of the Hill? Or has that fallen away thanks to the “Won’t someone think of the children!” crowd? In my experience, King of the Hill has fallen away (I’d stop my kids if I caught them playing it - I may tend to be conservative in this fashion, but I also have a sister who broke a collarbone this way) along with Dodge Ball and my favorite (not!) from gym class - guarenteed to make my shoulders and elbow hurt even at seven “Red Rover, Red Rover, send Justin on over!” The stupid songs, hand games (rock paper scissors, cats cradle, and clapping games), double dutch jump rope (watched twelve year olds do that this summer), giving someone a lift on your bike (seems more common in neighborhoods where not everyone owns a bike), and many of the games (kick ball, duck duck goose (or grey duck depending on what part of the country you are in), even the card game War) remain. Even things like jacks and marbles are obscure, but not unknown. A girlfriend and I want to know how long you’d have to close schools for in order to make “Jingle Bells, Batman Smells” disappear from the collective memory - it may be worth it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loss-of-a-culture-who-cares/329271.md?page=1)