# Lost 1.17 "In Translation" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 23, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551 "2005-02-23T16:58:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/101 "2005-02-24T16:23:02Z")
> [@Jess](#): > > Well, dammit – I missed the whole episode. I had to pick my daughter up from church, for crying out loud (f_**ing Lent), and she was late and there was traffic and when I called my husband to tape it, he – of course – doesn’t know how to work the new machine, or where we keep the blank tapes (under the TV where I’ve kept them for the last 19 f**_ing _years_!). Dammit. Tape? What is this “tape” thing you speak of? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/102 "2005-02-24T16:32:21Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Then we’ll have to agree to disagree. Sun was frantically trying to save her marriage. Do you think she’s going to play language games with her husband as he’s packing up and walking away? She was doing everything but begging on her knees for him to stay. > > I stand by my earlier assessment of the scene. Sun was speaking Korean the whole time. If there was any precedent for this happening earlier in the show, I think this would be a more convincing theory. After all, _H4RO_ establishes it in the first few minutes, and then sticks with it. Why would they use an altogether confusing convention now when it is wholly inconsistent with the way they’ve handled the last 16 episodes? And there have been other important conversations between them–why mistrust the subtitles now? Mauvaise nailed it, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/103 "2005-02-24T16:35:56Z")
> [@Mauvaise](#): > > It’s that very reason that I don’t believe she was speaking in Korean. I don’t think it’s particularly wise to try to save one’s marriage by telling the other person you were going to leave them. Except Sun was telling that to Jin as Jin was leaving _her_. Sort of a “you want to leave? Hey, I almost left you but didn’t!” moment. She told him she almost left, but that she also had a change of heart, and was hoping for a similar change of heart on his end now that the situation was reversed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/104 "2005-02-24T16:40:29Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Shannon is the 4th (remeber, she was tieing bowlines) Did anyone else think “why the hell would you use a bowline knot to lash poles together?” Of course, this is Shannon we’re talking about… I was wondering about the English/Korean thing, too, and I half expected Jin to answer back in English-- confirming that they were really speaking Korean. Since he didn’t answer, it’s hard to say. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/105 "2005-02-24T16:57:12Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I half expected Jin to answer back in English He comes from a fishing village, he was a waiter and then he started working for Sun’s father. When would he have time to learn English? And why? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/106 "2005-02-24T17:21:43Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > He comes from a fishing village, he was a waiter and then he started working for Sun’s father. When would he have time to learn English? And why? Sorry if that was confusing. I meant that the writers might have had him speak in English (rather than provide Korean subtitles) for our benefit, even though he was “really” speaking Korean. Had Jin answered back in English, we would have known that he and Sun were both actually speaking Korean, because I think we can safely assume that Jin doesn’t speak English ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/107 "2005-02-24T17:33:22Z")
**John Mace** I just read you wrong. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/108 "2005-02-24T18:02:52Z")
Another vote for Sun speaking in English, not Korean, in that scene. Saying it in English thinking that she _needed_ to express it but still was afraid to actually tell him in a language that he could understand. That was my impression. Her using English at that point also was a way perhaps of her challenging him, saying, “Here I am, I’m not going to pretend anymore, so deal with me honestly as well.” ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/109 "2005-02-24T18:10:13Z")
> [@Draelin](#): > > I’m with **ivylass**. I think it was just so the viewers were sure to understand it. I recall thinking of it as “pulling a _Red October_.” Yes, that’s what I think. We were “hearing” English, but she was still speaking Korean. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/110 "2005-02-24T18:31:48Z")
I’m in the “of course she was really speaking English” camp. Let’s make s’mores! ---
**Author:** ![dreamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@dreamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamer)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/111 "2005-02-24T18:32:17Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > He comes from a fishing village, he was a waiter and then he started working for Sun’s father. When would he have time to learn English? And why? I’m still holding onto the belief that Jin does speak English. IIRC Jin’s father advised him to go to America and save his marriage. Either they were on the plane to “bring the watches” to Los Angeles for Sun’s father, or they were headed for that Honeymoon Jin had promised Sun at their wedding. Perhaps either would have persuaded Jin to learn to speak English? I hope this rumor is true [Lost DVD Set?](http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=2902) ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/112 "2005-02-24T18:38:22Z")
I disagree completely that Sun’s English was intended to be Korean. It’s entirely inconsistent with how the show has handled the two languages in the past (everybody spoke Korean when they were in Korea, for example), and it makes no dramatic sense for Sun to confess those things to Jin like that. She was saying things she had to say but that she still couldn’t bring herself to actually _tell_ Jin in a way he could understand. Either way, I’m amazed by how the show keeps surprising us: Every time they delve into somebody’s backstory, I feel like I have to change my mind: “Oh, now _this_ is the most interesting relationship on the island.” Jin beating up the government guy to save his life was just… wow. And the layers of irony of Sun planning to leave Jin and Jin planning to take her to America to get out from under what he knew Sun hated… wow again. And those two actors… double wow. Daniel Dae Kim, I already knew about from other work, but his performance in this series, and this episode particularly, is just stunning. (The end, where he confesses he was ashamed of his father, was a big eye-opener.) Yunjin Kim, on the other hand, is new to me; I’ve seen a fair amount of Korean film, but I haven’t seen her specifically (except in _Shiri_, a generic action flick in which she makes no real impression). Either way, she’s a major revelation. Bring on Hurley! ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/113 "2005-02-24T18:38:38Z")
Someone thought Shannon might get the 4th spot on the raft. But she wasn’tworking on the raft, she was working on her shelter, as evidenced when Sayid came to tell her that she should find some other “friend” to help her. And I’m sure Sun spoke English. It’s rare with such long stretches of non Enghlish interaction with subtitles on American broadcast tv. Lots of stuff they told each other that were important was subtitled and I simply cannot fathom why the writers would throw in English as Korean in the middle of it. Did DD Kim get his job through his Angel connection and knowing Fury and Goddard? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/114 "2005-02-24T18:44:03Z")
> [@dreamer](#): > > I’m still holding onto the belief that Jin does speak English. I thought this episode made it pretty explicitly clear that he doesn’t. As others have observed, when he’s on the beach and everybody is yelling around him, in his closeups the English soundtrack flutters into incomprehensible gibberish. If it turns out later he does speak English, I will regard this scene as a major cheat. And up to this point the show hasn’t really been cheating on anything, so I’m comfortable assuming he is not bilingual like Sun. (Which, incidentally, must be an interesting experience for the actor, being a Korean-American — he was born in Korea but moved to the States as a young child — and playing a major role on a major American television show but being asked to do it entirely in his native language. That’s an opportunity that doesn’t come along every day, I tell you whut.) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/115 "2005-02-24T18:49:21Z")
Add to that the way he said “boat” to Michael in the last scene. Pretty obvious to me that he doesn’t speak English. He may _understand_ a bit, (most of us know some small amount of a second language, especially if there are a number of its speakers around us everyday) but not anywhere near Sun’s ability. ---
**Author:** ![Izzybella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e56c9b/32.png) [@Izzybella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzybella)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/116 "2005-02-24T19:52:09Z")
I don’t think Jin speaks English but I do think he has at least a rudimentary understanding of it. I think the gibberish sequence may have illustrated his diffuculty understanding the tempo and overlapping of the speech, not necessarily the content. The reason for this is I really felt that Jin understood Sun when she told him she’d planned on leaving him and I do believe she was speaking English at that time, not Korean. If it was the writers’ intention (pulling a Red Octobor) then it really annoys me that they felt I wouldn’t “get it” by reading subtitles. ---
**Author:** ![sj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@sj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sj2)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/117 "2005-02-24T19:58:48Z")
So, my Replay cut off RIGHT when the batteries died, I caught a bit of Sun on the beach in her suit and lets the towel fly off in the wind…did I miss anything else? Damn my addiction to West Wing and Lost folks letting it go until 902. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/118 "2005-02-24T20:08:19Z")
IIRC, Koreans all study English in school, so it would be the rare Korean who knew absolutely no English. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/119 "2005-02-24T20:23:24Z")
> [@sj2](#): > > So, my Replay cut off RIGHT when the batteries died, I caught a bit of Sun on the beach in her suit and lets the towel fly off in the wind…did I miss anything else? Not much. After that, Sun wades a bit, and there’s a reveal of Hurley chilling on the beach, listening to his snappy .mp3 player. The soundtrack cuts out abruptly, and Hurley taps the player a couple of times. The batteries are dead. He mutters “Son of a bitch,” takes of his headphones, and looks over at Charlie and Claire, who are getting cosy by the shore. Credits. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551/120 "2005-02-24T20:25:09Z")
“absolutely no” is one thing, actually speaking or understanding is another. I don’t know about the schools in Korea, but in Spain, kids a required to take eight years of English or French, but having met a junior high teacher of English, I understand why they speak it so poorly. I wanted to get a haircut and asked around where to get one, this lady commented, and this is an exact quote, because it blew me away and I talked to a lot of people about it: “Hwhy you want cut hair - it is not tall.” Learning a foreign language in Spain used to emphasise the theory of the language, rather than comprehension. An exam might have the students list all possible uses of the preposition “on” and how to construct the future tense. It might have changed in the 14 years since I got this information, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-17-in-translation/291551.md?page=7)