# LOST 1-21-09 "Because You Left"/"The Lie" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 21, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345 "2009-01-21T19:54:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/81 "2009-01-22T19:09:02Z")
> [@rockle](#): > > Me too! Someone asked me what happen last night, and the best I could come up with is to say “All the Losties have become unstuck in time.” And then I had to explain what _that_ meant. The little woman asked me why Daniel was allowed to talk to Desmond while Sawyer wasn’t, and the best I could come up with was “the observer effect”. I don’t even know if that term exists outside of GURPS Time Travel… -Joe ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/82 "2009-01-22T19:18:32Z")
Because Desmond never met Sawyer (or any other Lostie) before he left the hatch…ergo…he can never meet Sawyer no matter what Sawyer tries to do when Sawyer is back in the past when Desmond’s in the hatch. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/83 "2009-01-22T19:30:07Z")
> [@Strange\_Machine](#): > > Ben doesn’t mention Walt or Desmond (or Frank Lupidus). Ben may not know that Desmond is off the island, and Frank may not be important. It’s probable that Widmore has been to the island before too. Best theory (and I came up with it all by myself!) is that none of those people you listed were there when the Sky Went Purple. Except for Desmond, who is special. The people who were there when the sky went purple are the ones that matter. Walt and Michael were just outside the radius. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/84 "2009-01-22T19:31:50Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > Because Desmond never met Sawyer (or any other Lostie) before he left the hatch…ergo…he can never meet Sawyer no matter what Sawyer tries to do when Sawyer is back in the past when Desmond’s in the hatch. (aka. The Observer Effect) 🙂 -Joe ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/85 "2009-01-22T19:43:52Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > This is interesting too. Maybe the reason she decided they were crazy was that they started talking about people just poofing out of nowhere in front of them. She thinks they’re crazy, but they’re really just seeing the Losties time jumping. I was even thinking the whispers people hear are remnants of the time travelers. > [@](#): > > I guess we can speculate on what past events will end up being caused by our time travellers. Are the hostiles really the Losties? Are Adam & Eve characters we know who end up back in time? From day one, before any of the time travel started, that was a central theory about Adam and Eve. A&E is the mystery that digs at me the most. Have they even mentioned them ONCE since that episode? And what are the black and white stones? (The only other theory was that it was Amelia Earhardt and her navigator). > [@Strange\_Machine](#): > > They mentioned Rousseau’s crew going crazy a few times last season while Desmond and Minkowski are unstuck. Minkowski finally dies from it, and I assumed that was what happened to Rousseau’s science boat. They didn’t know about constants and she put them out of their misery. Who mentioned the science team? I am drawing a blank. > [@HelloNinja](#): > > This has been my theory since they showed up. My guess is Penny and Desmond, but we’ll see. I’m thinking Eve is definitely Kate. I think Adam will be Sawyer, but could be Jack. Or it could be the DeGroots. I rewatched the first half at lunch. - Marvin Candle is interesting. I hope to see more of him. There is a “clip” that was released recently that has a very interesting development involving him, but it is pretty spoilerish. (I don’t have the link right now). - The scene with Richard and Locke was great. Richard really came across as likeable, and it really added to the flashback of Locke’s childhood. - More and more I am thinking that Richard’s other Others (the indigenous) are Atlanteans. I’ll bet they have four toes! Check their feet! I also wonder how integrated the dirty others became in Ben’s town/camp. Were Ethan and Goodwin dirty others or people later recruited (like Juliet)? Do the dirty others live in the woods? Do they mix and mingle? Richard certainly did. Anyone have any evidence or theories on this one? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/86 "2009-01-22T19:49:56Z")
But…“The rules don’t apply to Desmond.” I don’t trust Daniel at all. Frankly, I trust Ben more than Daniel–at least Ben doesn’t pretend to be anything other than a manipulative sleazebag. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/87 "2009-01-22T19:57:40Z")
> [@Strange\_Machine](#): > > All Sayid did in the episode was get carried around. After throwing one baddie off the balcony and karate-fighting the dart gun baddie around before impaling him on steak knives, you mean? So I guess the previous episode was there to let us know who / what we can totally forget about. Shannon and Boone, Charlie, Paulo and Nikki, Mr. Eko, Libby… Can someone remind me what Miles said to Charlotte last season? Something about her being a ghost or something? One thing that puzzled me - was that Sun in the flashback as Alvin Hanso’s wife? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/88 "2009-01-22T20:02:52Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > _snip_ > > Can someone remind me what Miles said to Charlotte last season? Something about her being a ghost or something? > _snip_ I don’t remember anything being said about a ghost but I do remember that both of them were previously on the island and were wanting to get back or at least Charlotte did because Miles was willing to go away if Ben gave him a couple of millions clams. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/89 "2009-01-22T20:04:13Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > One thing that puzzled me - was that Sun in the flashback as Alvin Hanso’s wife? No, it was just a generic Asian woman. And don’t you mean Dr.Cheng/Marvin Candle/Edgar Halliwax? That guy isn’t Hanso, Hanso is the BIG WIG ehind all of Dharma, and I don’t think we’ve ever seen his face. Right? ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/90 "2009-01-22T20:12:40Z")
Speaking of Marvin, isn’t he the one with a prosthetic arm? Didn’t he have two natural arms last night? ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/91 "2009-01-22T20:14:41Z")
What about Dr.Cheng/Marvin Candle/Edgar Halliwax’s baby they showed at the beginning of the show? Do you think they grew up to be anybody of importance on the island? ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/92 "2009-01-22T20:23:18Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > Because Desmond never met Sawyer (or any other Lostie) before he left the hatch…ergo…he can never meet Sawyer no matter what Sawyer tries to do when Sawyer is back in the past when Desmond’s in the hatch. I was (and still am) confused by this too. Can someone enlighten me regarding why Faraday could talk to Desmond? ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/93 "2009-01-22T20:27:00Z")
One might imagine that the Miles, ghost-hunter scientist, could be Dr. Cheng’s offspring…figure the scene in the past took place around about 1975 or so… ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/94 "2009-01-22T20:34:29Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > I was (and still am) confused by this too. Can someone enlighten me regarding why Faraday could talk to Desmond? As best as I can tell, this is all directly related to the events of last season’s episode [The Constant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Constant) when Desmond was bouncing around in time. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/95 "2009-01-22T20:39:43Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > I was (and still am) confused by this too. Can someone enlighten me regarding why Faraday could talk to Desmond? Faraday explains that since sawyer never met desmond before they entered the hatch, no matter what sawyer does back in time prior to entering the hatch he can’t meet desmond because it would create a paradox. Faraday, however, met desmond way back when in oxford (as per the constant like fiddlesticks said) so they can go ahead and meet up with no temporal consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/96 "2009-01-22T20:44:01Z")
> [@HoboStew](#): > > Faraday explains that since sawyer never met desmond before they entered the hatch, no matter what sawyer does back in time prior to entering the hatch he can’t meet desmond because it would create a paradox. Faraday, however, met desmond way back when in oxford (as per the constant like fiddlesticks said) so they can go ahead and meet up with no temporal consequences. I feel pretty dense about this. So, if Desmond and Faraday met in the past, why didn’t Desmond recognize Faraday in last night’s episode? ---
**Author:** ![Strange\_Machine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@Strange\_Machine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strange_Machine)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/97 "2009-01-22T20:44:22Z")
Though I’m unclear about where Desmond’s 1996 consciousness went when he was possessed by his future self. If he remembered meeting Faraday and the watching the maze experiment he should have recognized Faraday when he was pounding on the door. > [@Merijeek](#): > > Best theory (and I came up with it all by myself!) is that none of those people you listed were there when the Sky Went Purple. Except for Desmond, who is special. > > The people who were there when the sky went purple are the ones that matter. Walt and Michael were just outside the radius. You’re probably right, but I hope it’s addressed and not just left as some sloppy dialog (kind of like Sawyer not mentioning Claire when Daniel asks if everyone is accounted for). Re: Rousseau’s science team. I just fast forwarded through the first couple episodes of season 4 and couldn’t find anything. Maybe no one does mention it. There’s a decent amount of Rousseau/Alex face time between scenes on the freighter. It felt like a connect the dots moment to me when they revealed the problems traveling to and from the island. ---
**Author:** ![Meltdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Meltdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meltdown)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/98 "2009-01-22T20:46:25Z")
The woman behind the counter at the butcher shop – had we seen her before? Maybe as one of the Others? She looked familiar, but I may just have seen her in a different show before. My favorite line: “It points north.” ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/99 "2009-01-22T20:56:27Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > I feel pretty dense about this. So, if Desmond and Faraday met in the past, why didn’t Desmond recognize Faraday in last night’s episode? It isn’t well explained. I suppose they could hand wave it away by saying Desmond wasn’t altogether rational at that point in time. Remember he spent considerable time in that hatch when he couldn’t sleep for longer than 108 minutes, kept shooting himself up to stay awake, etc. Kinda weak but its all I got atm. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/100 "2009-01-22T21:01:49Z")
I liked these episodes and was able to follow them, but I can’t imagine them making any sense at all to someone who hasn’t been following the show since the beginning. I like the mythology conflicts currently operating: Who is good, Ben or Widmore? Is Aaron supposed to be on the island (fortune teller, Ben) or off it (Claire, Christian). Should Hurley be on the island (Ben, Charlie) or off (Sayid)? I guess we are done with traditional flashbacks/flashforwards except for brief snippets like the Dharma bit and the Penny’s boat lie discussion bit. Now I guess we’ll have “centric” episodes focusing on a character but without flashbacks about them - the second episode is supposedly Hurely centric. It’s not clear what the first episode is. I liked that Hurley’s dad was watching the show that Nikki was on. Seems like there are a bunch of unknown island groups - were the flaming arrows from the Others, or someone else? Who were the British soldiers? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345.md?page=6)