# LOST 1-21-09 "Because You Left"/"The Lie" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 21, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345 "2009-01-21T19:54:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/101 "2009-01-22T21:04:16Z")
> [@Tahssa](#): > > I don’t remember anything being said about a ghost but I do remember that both of them were previously on the island and were wanting to get back or at least Charlotte did because Miles was willing to go away if Ben gave him a couple of millions clams. Miles asked her something like “Why do you want to leave when you spent so much time trying to get back?” And the Charlotte told Daniel that she was looking for where she was born. Which is part of my theory on why the time travel seems to be hurting her. The people who were already on the island seem to be unaffected by the time travel, while the losties are moving around (or vice versa). But if she was from the island and then came back, then maybe the the island is trying to “restick” her. There could even be two of her at the same time, and I doubt the universe likes that. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/102 "2009-01-22T21:08:08Z")
> [@Tahssa](#): > > I don’t remember anything being said about a ghost but I do remember that both of them were previously on the island and were wanting to get back or at least Charlotte did because Miles was willing to go away if Ben gave him a couple of millions clams. No, it was something creepy about her personally - something related to his “death divining” abilities. It was in one of the final episodes last season. Something about how she’s never leaving the island maybe, or that she’s already been there before? > [@bouv](#): > > No, it was just a generic Asian woman. And don’t you mean Dr.Cheng/Marvin Candle/Edgar Halliwax? That guy isn’t Hanso, Hanso is the BIG WIG ehind all of Dharma, and I don’t think we’ve ever seen his face. Right? Yes, that’s who I meant. The guy who films the videos. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/103 "2009-01-22T21:08:12Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > I liked that Hurley’s dad was watching the show that Nikki was on. “Previously… on Expose’” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/104 "2009-01-22T21:08:25Z")
I loved Hurley’s Cliffs Note explanation to his mom about what really happened. Did Sawyer call Daniel “Bogart” or “Frogurt”? I didn’t quite get that one. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/105 "2009-01-22T21:09:54Z")
So, didn’t Ben pretty much say to both Jack and Hurley that if they went back to the island they’d never leave again? “You won’t have to lie ever again” to Hurley, and something similar to Jack? Seemed pretty ominous. Also, though I’ve watched every episode, can anyone explain Adam & Eve to me? For the life of me, I don’t remember the reference. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/106 "2009-01-22T21:12:12Z")
> [@HoboStew](#): > > It isn’t well explained. I suppose they could hand wave it away by saying Desmond wasn’t altogether rational at that point in time. Remember he spent considerable time in that hatch when he couldn’t sleep for longer than 108 minutes, kept shooting himself up to stay awake, etc. Kinda weak but its all I got atm. Heh, heh. Fair enough. Unless someone else has a better explanation, I guess I’ll force myself to not let it bug me. So it goes. _Po-tweet._ ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/107 "2009-01-22T21:13:41Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Miles asked her something like “Why do you want to leave when you spent so much time trying to get back?” And the Charlotte told Daniel that she was looking for where she was born. > > Which is part of my theory on why the time travel seems to be hurting her. The people who were already on the island seem to be unaffected by the time travel, while the losties are moving around (or vice versa). But if she was from the island and then came back, then maybe the the island is trying to “restick” her. There could even be two of her at the same time, and I doubt the universe likes that. My brain isn’t working correctly… There was a show, was it Lost?, that basically had it where you could timetravel (dimension jump?) once and be fine. But if you did it more than once you’d die a horrible death. Babylon 5? Anyone? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/108 "2009-01-22T21:17:04Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Also, though I’ve watched every episode, can anyone explain Adam & Eve to me? For the life of me, I don’t remember the reference. Adam and Eve were the skeletons found in a cave by Jack in season 1. [http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Adam\_and\_Eve](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Adam_and_Eve) ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/109 "2009-01-22T21:19:07Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > Adam and Eve were the skeletons found in a cave by Jack in season 1. > > [http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Adam\_and\_Eve](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Adam_and_Eve) Ah. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/110 "2009-01-22T21:19:22Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Also, though I’ve watched every episode, can anyone explain Adam & Eve to me? For the life of me, I don’t remember the reference. > [@](#): > > Adam and Eve is the nickname that Locke gave for two corpses discovered by Jack and Kate in the cave. (“House of the Rising Sun”) On these bodies, Jack found a small bag containing one white and one black rock. [http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Adam\_and\_Eve](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Adam_and_Eve) ETA: Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/111 "2009-01-22T21:20:29Z")
[quote=“woodstockbirdybird, post:105, topic:482345”] nevermind ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/112 "2009-01-22T21:24:23Z")
If Richard is unstuck in time, is that why he never ages? Loved the bit with the compass. Isn’t that one of the objects he showed Locke when Locke was a youngster? Seems I read in a pre-season article that the writers were going to explain the smoke monster. Wonder how. Why does everyone keep saying that it’s because of the Oceanic 6 leaving that bad things happened on the island? Seems to me its because of what Ben did, which only served his purpose of hiding the island from Widmore. I’m curious about what Sawyer whispered to Kate in the helicopter. If it was just about his daughter, why couldn’t she tell Jack? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/113 "2009-01-22T21:25:38Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > Heh, heh. Fair enough. > > Unless someone else has a better explanation, I guess I’ll force myself to not let it bug me. > > So it goes. > _Po-tweet._ The other possibility is that Daniel is WRONG and you can change the past. Daniel hadn’t actually TOLD Desmond until he TOLD Desmond. The information didn’t exist until the change in the timestream was made. Of course, it’s also possible that Daniel is lying and that he knows the past CAN be changed…he just doesn’t want anyone but him doing it. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/114 "2009-01-22T21:36:07Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Of course, it’s also possible that Daniel is lying and that he knows the past CAN be changed…he just doesn’t want anyone but him doing it. > > -Joe Yes. Of course, Daniel was dumbing things down. The original explanation of how this worked by Ms. Hawking was more nuanced, and didn’t rule changing individual aspects of an event. Her point was merely that it was futile to try because things had a way of “course correcting.” [http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Flashes\_Before\_Your\_Eyes](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Flashes_Before_Your_Eyes) Desmond’s later experiments proved even this was subject to some variation. He was able to prevent Charlie from dying a bunch of ways before he finally bought it in the sub. But even so, Charlie eventually died. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/115 "2009-01-22T22:02:48Z")
> [@Strange\_Machine](#): > > Though I’m unclear about where Desmond’s 1996 consciousness went when he was possessed by his future self. If he remembered meeting Faraday and the watching the maze experiment he should have recognized Faraday when he was pounding on the door. Hasn’t Claire been missing for a week or so island time? Saying “we don’t know where Claire is” might be a tad redundant. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/116 "2009-01-22T22:13:00Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I don’t trust Daniel at all. Frankly, I trust Ben more than Daniel–at least Ben doesn’t pretend to be anything other than a manipulative sleazebag. Except for that time he pretedned to be Henry Gale. He only admitted to being a sleazebag after getting caught at it. I never trust _anybody_ on this show. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/117 "2009-01-22T22:19:02Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > The other possibility is that Daniel is WRONG and you can change the past. Daniel hadn’t actually TOLD Desmond until he TOLD Desmond. The information didn’t exist until the change in the timestream was made. > > Of course, it’s also possible that Daniel is lying and that he knows the past CAN be changed…he just doesn’t want anyone but him doing it. > > -Joe Didn’t Daniel rant a bit about how Desmond is unique in some way? I thought he meant to refer to the way Desmond is already unstuck in time. I thought that Daniel was realizing that, though _most_ people can’t change the past, Desmond can. I don’t claim this makes sense, it’s just what I thought we were being told through Daniel’s ramble. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/118 "2009-01-22T22:53:07Z")
I don’t think Desmond can change the past either. However, it is possible to change Desmond’s past. Or at least, all Desmond can do is “bend” the past. Like when he went back and tried to marry Penny instead of throwing away the ring. In the end, the universe fixed itself. So they can’t just go and drag Desmond out of the hatch so he doesn’t press the button or anything like that. It just won’t work. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/119 "2009-01-23T00:22:38Z")
Nothing of importance, but I liked how the Willie Nelson record at the start of the episoded played, then skipped. Much like Faraday’s explanation of time travel later in the episode. Foreshadowing, right? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345/120 "2009-01-23T00:31:51Z")
In the 1970s scenes on the Island, was the guy carried out on the stretcher supposed to beSawyer - it looked like him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-1-21-09-because-you-left-the-lie/482345.md?page=7)