# Lost 11/10 "Confidence Man" - Contains Spoilers! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 10, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090 "2004-11-10T22:21:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/121 "2004-11-12T13:16:48Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > The flight was going from **Sydney** to **Singapore**. Watch Sayid’s bit with the burning stick in the pilot episode. > > Jin and Sun would then fly to Korea, Charlie back to England, most of the others back to the US. That makes sense. Sniffs\_Markers is an Aussie and has made the Oz to LA flight many times usually there is a stop over in either Singapore or Hawaii. Regarding **SenorBeef** ’s speculation in spoilers:[spoiler]Hurley seems so straightforward that I don’t really expect him to have a background story. Nor would I really expect Michael and Walt, or Shannon and Boone to have a background episodes, since their exposition seems so straightforward. But I asked that question last episode’s thread or earlier – we haven’t seen Hurley in any airport or airplane flashback at all, right? I thought I hadn’t seen him so I’ve been scouring every every pre-crash scene to try and spot him (I don’t tape it, so it’s an effort). He seems a bit young to me to be a MIPUM (Mysterious Island Person with Unknown Motives) or linked to the Tree Shaking Monster makers.[/spoiler] And a bit more spoiler potential (involves producers talking): [spoiler]Didn’t the producers say that there maybe someone among them was not a genuine survivor? Or something coy like “…ah, but perhaps we’ve already met” a MIPUM (Mysterious Island Person with Unknown Motives) or “maybe one of the ‘survivors’ was on the island alll along…” They’d have to excludes _some_ characters’ background so we don’t fiure out the mole. (If there is one.)[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/122 "2004-11-12T13:38:00Z")
Regarding island-Sawyer vs flashback-Sawyer, when we saw the flashback where he told the woman he needed an investor, he said he had $140,000 and needed $160,000, but in the flashback in the pool hall, the guy said Sawyer had $160,000 of his money. So I conclude that there were two Sawyers here; the one meeting the woman was the original guy, while island-Sawyer was the one in the pool hall. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/123 "2004-11-12T13:47:51Z")
I posted this in the Official Lost Questions Thread because I was getting a bit confused (or “lost” if you will nyuck, nyuck, nyuck). Should we have an **Official List of Jargon**? Or proposed jargon? (Re-reading old threads I was getting confused). You know, like: 1. **TCM** = Tree Crusher Monster 2. **Adam and Eve** = Two bodies found in caves 3. **Redshirts** = generic survivors like Steve and Scott and the drowned woman and I propose (for issues like the Voice of the French Woman or ‘whoever was on the island 16 years ago’)… 1. **MIPUM** = Mysterious Island Person of Unknown Motives So that MIPUM can be generically employed for things like “How did the polar bear get on the island? Maybe it was brought by a MIPUM for an experiment.” Or random speculations like “Oo, maybe there is a mastermind MIPUM and it’s all like the Island of Dr. Moreau.” Or “the French Woman is a MIPUM.” Or “perhaps the TCM is a machine built by the MIPUMs”. Or “maybe the MIPUMs are aliens from outer space!” Or “maybe there are no MIPUMS.” Anything else we need? ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/124 "2004-11-12T13:54:43Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > Regarding island-Sawyer vs flashback-Sawyer, when we saw the flashback where he told the woman he needed an investor, he said he had $140,000 and needed $160,000, but in the flashback in the pool hall, the guy said Sawyer had $160,000 of his money. So I conclude that there were two Sawyers here; the one meeting the woman was the original guy, while island-Sawyer was the one in the pool hall. I thought the guy was gnereally just rounding off to a figure that was about $150,000. And in any case, Sawyer was discussing the woman and her husband’s reluctance to the scam, and the fact that he left the money overnight with the husband… all those specifics about the scam with the woman, he was discussing WITH the Pool Hall guy. Granted he may just be running the same scam over and over, but it seemed pretty clear that he borrowed the guy’s money for the scam with the woman and her husband. (He may also have bee clearing an extra 20 grand in the scam skimming off the top – telling each he has 140, so they both pony up 160, so neither realizes he pocketed the extra 20). Again, the Original Sawyer’s scam that bilked Island Sawyer’s parents happened in 1976, and nothing we saw in that story suggested we were that far back in time. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/125 "2004-11-12T14:10:44Z")
> [@Silver Fire](#): > > I really wish people would read the guidelines **Juniper** has already posted (they make a heap of sense, IMO) and either agree with them or not. As long as we do that, and as long as the OP (whoever that happens to be) remembers to put “SPOILERS” in the thread title, I think these Lost threads can continue smoothly. > > Can everyone agree with that? I did and I agree. But please, whoever does the OP, PUT SPOILERS IN THE TITLE!! It’s worked for a couple of years already in the Trek threads and in numerous other show threads. (Still, I have a habit of answering a box with a box, even if I don’t think it’s a real spoiler.) Notice how the thread title always gets changed to include the word SPOILERS ? That’s because I (and others) use report this post to ask for that word to be added as soon as I see the thread. Just put it in the title… As for back story, did anyone see Locke board? Even in the background? I don’t recall any such scene. **Eats** , I like that idea. We had to do a similar for the Trek Doping threads to make them readble to the casual reader. The Qs thread is getting a bit big, maybe we should start a **Lost about Lost?** thread for the acronyms and other insider speak? ---
**Author:** ![shadowfax33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@shadowfax33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shadowfax33)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/126 "2004-11-12T14:11:03Z")
Checking back in… My apologies about the Rose comment earlier. Since she wasn’t presumed dead or anything, I assumed that the information wouldn’t be a big deal. My fault. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/127 "2004-11-12T14:21:03Z")
> [@Eats\_Crayons](#): > > I posted this in the Official Lost Questions Thread because I was getting a bit confused (or “lost” if you will nyuck, nyuck, nyuck). > Should we have an **Official List of Jargon**? Or proposed jargon? (Re-reading old threads I was getting confused). [Lost in Lost?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5486576#post5486576) ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/128 "2004-11-12T15:14:20Z")
Re: The 160k vs. 140k, I figured that was a continuity error, the writer just forgot who had what and I shrugged it off. I don’t think it indicates anything. Re: Locke boarding. As has been stated several times before; disabled passengers preboard before everyone else. It’s possible he was already on the plane long before anyone else was even forming a queue to board the plane. Some things that bothered me. Sayid said Sawyer set off the rocket. When he left Kate and Sawyer in their position he did not know about Jack or that Kate would abandon her post to run back to help Jack. I think he would be more inclined to say “Kate’s position”. There must have been a scene with Sayid coming back all beat up and telling Kate what happened and she told him she wasn’t with Sawyer so he then referred to it as Sawyer’s position. Although it seems he sure wasted a lot of time before seeing the doc about his head wound. It would also explain how Locke knew what Sayid had been doing. I can see that in a small community like this any news of what’s going on will get passed around quickly so Sayid didn’t necessarily have to tell Locke what happened. I also understand that time is limited so they can’t show every conversation and we must just assume that some exposition takes place especially if some time has passed but it’s just bugs me. And on a lighter note, is Claire really the only Australian who likes peanut butter? Does she eat it with vegemite? Could she have been forced to leave Australia because of her unnatural love for peanut butter? … Oops, forgot this isn’t the question thread. ---
**Author:** ![TommyTutone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@TommyTutone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommyTutone)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/129 "2004-11-12T15:37:35Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > Interesting. I totally disagree with this interpretation. I’d be curious about the opinions of others. > > It’s possible the writers set this up to be consistent with _either_ interpretation. I have to believe that the backstory of Sawyer was that of Sawyer (the guy on the show) himself, rather than that of, err, Sawyer (the guy who ripped off the parents of the guy on the show). The reason for this is threefold: 1. The scenes in the hotel/restaurant/et al were of modern times, not 1976 2. The letter is stamped from 1976 3. Sawyer himself said ‘I became that which I was hunting’ alluding to the fact that it was in fact him who was conning the woman. If anything, the twist is that as heartless as a bastard as he may seem, when it came down to it, he couldn’t rip this particular couple off because of the child. ---
**Author:** ![Paisley\_Park](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Paisley\_Park](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paisley_Park)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/130 "2004-11-12T15:43:18Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > The flight was going from **Sydney** to **Singapore**. Watch Sayid’s bit with the burning stick in the pilot episode. > > Jin and Sun would then fly to Korea, Charlie back to England, most of the others back to the US. > > Everybody clear on that? Actually the plane was going LA. [Here’s](http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2004-09-28-lost-guide_x.htm) one source. I’ve seen several other sources confirm this. > [@](#): > > Oceanic Airways Flight 815 was en route to Los Angeles from Sydney on Sept. 22, 2004. When radio contact faded, the plane reversed course and headed toward Fiji before breaking up and crashing on an island. Of the roughly 175 people aboard, 48 survived. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/131 "2004-11-12T15:51:41Z")
I am sure Locke knew about the rockets because surely everyone was asking why explosives were going off. I also have a thought on the theory of Hurley as an MIPUM. Perhaps the conversation between Hurley and Charlie was NOT throwaway dialogue to explain away Hurley’s lack of weight loss to the nitpicking community. Perhaps it was a signal that Hurley isn’t getting thinner because he has a secret place on the island to eat Funions. Because he can eat a TON of boar meat and still lose weight. It is the Lost Atkins diet! ---
**Author:** ![aaelghat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c5a1d2/32.png) [@aaelghat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaelghat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/132 "2004-11-12T16:03:02Z")
This is just my theory/opinion based on things we’ve already seen so I don’t think I need to put it in a spoiler box… I think Locke has an ability to know what people’s demons are, and his destiny is to help the castaways expose and confront those demons. He’s helped by the magic of the island - he and the island work in concert to help people overcome their past and start anew with a blank slate. Locke is never obtuse about it, and he does it in a Zen-like way. He did that with the doctor and his questions around his ability to lead, he did that with Michael, and he’s doing that with Sayid. Sayid would never have gone into the jungle to explore it (and himself) if Locke hadn’t given him the knife. Locke did plant an idea in Sayid’s head that Sawyer had conked him out, but as Locke said, “there is tension between the two of you”. By giving Sayid the knife, Locke gave him a choice in a similar way Charlie had a choice. Sayid didn’t have to use the knife, but when he did, he saw the gap between the person he was and the person he wanted to be. So I don’t think that Locke hit Sayid on the head (that’s too direct for Locke), and I don’t think Locke is being manipulative in an evil way - rather he gave Sayid choices so that Sayid could reveal who he really was and confront it. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/133 "2004-11-12T16:10:00Z")
> [@Paisley Park](#): > > Actually the plane was going LA. > > [Here’s](http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2004-09-28-lost-guide_x.htm) one source. I’ve seen several other sources confirm this. A lot of Sydney-LA flights make a brief stop in Singapore. It’s to refuel and they sometimes they take on new passengers and some get out who are travelling to Singapore. Travelers going to LA don’t need to get off the plane. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/134 "2004-11-12T16:13:15Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It’s at least somewhat plausible that she could’ve found a small amount of the plant, mimed the heavy breathing, rubbed it on her neck and then stopped breathing heavily. Eventually you’d get the message… not that she had to, but it’s not totally implausible from Jin’s perspective if she just tells him that’s what she did. It is somewhat plausible. Eucalyptus is a [big ass tree](http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/e/eucaly14.html#des). While its possible Jin found a small amount, she would have to have found a small, young specimen of the tree. I have one in a 12" pot that, in a few years, will have to be planted in my yard. (So I can feed the koala bears that live in Florida :rolleyes: ) I had more trouble with the idea that Michael had to know where to look: up, and then climb the tree to get the foilage so Jin could make the medicine. And, as an asthmatic, I believe you could treat the asthma with Eucalyptus indefinitely. It probably was used before steroid-based inhalers and the idea isn’t all that far out. The only other thing: Eucalyptus is pretty much indigenous to Australia and New Zealand, so their island can’t be all that far away… ---
**Author:** ![Paisley\_Park](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Paisley\_Park](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paisley_Park)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/135 "2004-11-12T16:17:18Z")
> [@Eats\_Crayons](#): > > A lot of Sydney-LA flights make a brief stop in Singapore. It’s to refuel and they sometimes they take on new passengers and some get out who are travelling to Singapore. Travelers going to LA don’t need to get off the plane. Really? Singapore is in the opposite direction, and a long way, I might add. I’m not saying that the passangers had to get off in LA. I’m just saying I’ve never heard Signapore come up before, in regards to their flight path. I’ve only heard “Sydney to LA”, implying a direct flight. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/136 "2004-11-12T16:18:10Z")
> [@aaelghat](#): > > This is just my theory/opinion based on things we’ve already seen so I don’t think I need to put it in a spoiler box… > > I think Locke has an ability to know what people’s demons are, and his destiny is to help the castaways expose and confront those demons. He’s helped by the magic of the island - he and the island work in concert to help people overcome their past and start anew with a blank slate. Locke is never obtuse about it, and he does it in a Zen-like way. > > He did that with the doctor and his questions around his ability to lead, he did that with Michael, and he’s doing that with Sayid. > > Sayid would never have gone into the jungle to explore it (and himself) if Locke hadn’t given him the knife. Locke did plant an idea in Sayid’s head that Sawyer had conked him out, but as Locke said, “there is tension between the two of you”. By giving Sayid the knife, Locke gave him a choice in a similar way Charlie had a choice. Sayid didn’t have to use the knife, but when he did, he saw the gap between the person he was and the person he wanted to be. > > So I don’t think that Locke hit Sayid on the head (that’s too direct for Locke), and I don’t think Locke is being manipulative in an evil way - rather he gave Sayid choices so that Sayid could reveal who he really was and confront it. That makes a lot of sense to me. Locke has, somehow, become a vessel for the “magic” of the island. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/137 "2004-11-12T17:45:34Z")
> [@Paisley Park](#): > > Really? > > Singapore is in the opposite direction, and a long way, I might add. > > I’m not saying that the passangers had to get off in LA. I’m just saying I’ve never heard Signapore come up before, in regards to their flight path. I’ve only heard “Sydney to LA”, implying a direct flight. Yup. As I mentioned in an earlier post, **Sniffs\_Markers** is an Aussie and has made that journey many, many times. A few times it’s been an actual stop-over where she had to hang out in the Singapore airport (which she said is one of the bestin the world). She says that sometimes the refueling stop has been in Seoul, but usually it’s Singapore. You’re probably thinking the plane travels the opposite direction. Typically she’s travelled so that the plane has kind of flown over East Asia. Kinda like the route of the of Japan-Honalulu flights. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/138 "2004-11-12T18:00:39Z")
> [@Eats\_Crayons](#): > > Yup. As I mentioned in an earlier post, **Sniffs\_Markers** is an Aussie and has made that journey many, many times. Oh, cool. I just called her to doublecheck. She said she thinks there _are_ direct flights nowadays, but as for as long as she’s been making the Sydney-LA flight there has been one fuel-stop (though she usually didn’t have to change planes.) And **Paisley** you’re right. She said it’s a LOT faster going the other way, but even then the plane made fuel-stop in Barcelona. And for some reason the flights over East Asia are more common. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/139 "2004-11-12T18:08:49Z")
> [@Wile E](#): > > Re: The 160k vs. 140k, I figured that was a continuity error, the writer just forgot who had what and I shrugged it off. I don’t think it indicates anything. Don’t forget that part of the scam is to sell yourself as a high-roller. 20k could easily go toward good suits and other image accoutrements as well as to wine-and-dine the marks; those three hundred-dollar bills Sawyer plopped down for lunch had to come from somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090/140 "2004-11-12T18:23:36Z")
The idea that Sawyer’s flashback was actually something that occurred to his parents seems too subtle for a network show. And the idea that some events in the flashback happened to real-Sawyer while others happened to island-Sawyer is _way_ too subtle. So perhaps the entire flashback involved island-Sawyer, although his parents were also victims of the same scam. That would explain why he bolted when the child showed up; he identified with the innocent victim. And the idea that he’s pulling the same scam that led to his parents’s deaths would explain the self-loathing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-11-10-confidence-man-contains-spoilers/274090.md?page=8)