# Lost 2.11: "The Hunting Party" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 18, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518 "2006-01-18T16:25:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/121 "2006-01-19T20:28:44Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > Sawyer was the name of the guy who swindled James’s mom. :smack: Yep. Reading way too much into things. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/122 "2006-01-19T20:39:28Z")
So, do we think Ethan kidnapped the wrong boy, or that he actually wanted Aaron? If the latter, did Zeke and his crew also kidnap the wrong boy, or do they actually want Walt? ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/123 "2006-01-19T20:47:12Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > So, do we think Ethan kidnapped the wrong boy, or that he actually wanted Aaron? If the latter, did Zeke and his crew also kidnap the wrong boy, or do they actually want Walt? I think they actually want Walt. Zeke said he was “very special.” I believe Ethan wanted Aaron, though–probably for different reasons. > [@Ethilrist](#): > > To clarify, we know CFL’s kid is a girl, but we don’t know that that was CFL’s daughter last night. You’re right–but I don’t think the writers would name another character Alex just to mess with our heads … well, I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/124 "2006-01-19T20:59:39Z")
Walt is very special. He’s growing very quickly. Dang pubescent growth spurt! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/125 "2006-01-19T21:37:01Z")
> [@The Chao Goes Mu](#): > > :smack: Yep. Reading way too much into things. While I don’t think there’s a connection to your sci-fi author, I don’t think the commonsense explanation for Sawyer’s chosen name is the end of it. After all, John Locke, Jack Shepherd, and Danielle Rousseau presumably all came by their names in the usual way, but they’re all still significant beyond that. Sawyer is a rascal who finds himself adventuring on an island with an elaborate system of caves, populated by honest-to-gosh pirates, and with a freckled girl as a love interest. It seems obvious that one of the key concepts behind _Lost_ is the philosophical idea of the State of Nature so fundamental to Locke and Rousseau. What is natural for human behaviour absent an imposed political order? (I think Rousseau’s insistence on the “desert island” metaphor in his writings on natural education were a significant inspiration, too.) The name “Sawyer” is perfectly in line with that, apart from the simple similarities of circumstance – Tom Sawyer would rather be “an outlaw in Sherwood Forest for a year than President of the United States forever.” This seems to describe the Sawyer of _Lost_ well enough, and Locke, not knowing the details of Sawyer’s personal history, might just be digging at that. It’s more germaine to the immediate situation they were in, with Sawyer so eager to take up arms and run into the woods for a dramatic confrontation. Locke’s approach to the Michael Problem is more-or-less Lockean. Michael’s opted out – that’s his business. By what right does their micro-social order impose its will on him by dragging him back? (The one acceptable answer would be to punish him for using violence towards other members of the group on the way out, in order to discourage other people from doing the same thing.) From a Lockean point of view, though, dragging him back because his actions pose a danger to himself (which seems to be Jack’s motivation) is totally unsupportable. ---
**Author:** ![MikeTheTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3be4f8/32.png) [@MikeTheTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeTheTiger)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/126 "2006-01-19T21:40:56Z")
What/Who is the TCM? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/127 "2006-01-19T21:57:53Z")
> [@MikeTheTiger](#): > > What/Who is the TCM? TCM = Tree Crushing Monster Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/128 "2006-01-19T22:02:55Z")
> [@Dante](#): > > Rousseau specified that Alex is a girl. I could swear I’ve paid attention to every minute of every episode of this show, and I just can’t place this. When did it happen? I’m not saying it didn’t, I’m just surprised that I missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/129 "2006-01-19T22:09:43Z")
> [@Mama Tiger](#): > > I could swear I’ve paid attention to every minute of every episode of this show, and I just can’t place this. When did it happen? I’m not saying it didn’t, I’m just surprised that I missed it. It was in the first season finale, though I don’t know which part. She specified that Alex was her daughter–I _think_ it may have been while she was talking to Claire, before Claire remembered having seen her before. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/130 "2006-01-19T22:11:01Z")
> [@Mama Tiger](#): > > When did it happen? I’m not saying it didn’t, I’m just surprised that I missed it. It was in the season one finale, when Rousseau showed up in camp to warn them that the Others were coming. She said that she saw “a pillar of smoke,” and then that night “they came and took her.” I remember this pretty clearly because at the end, when they took Michael, folks spotted a young woman assumed to be Alex (based on her age and sex) on the kidnappers’ boat. ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/131 "2006-01-19T22:26:02Z")
> [@The Chao Goes Mu](#): > > Ok, I want to thow my hat into the ring for a second. > > Locke seemed very interested in why James Ford chose the name “Sawyer.” > > I’ve heard of a Sci-Fi author named Robert J. Sawer and since our “Lost” Sawyer has read, A Wrinkle in Time, and Watership Down would it be a stretch he’s read or stuff by R.J. Sawyer? Or that the writers are giving a nod to the guy in some fashion? > > I haven’t read him so if anyone here has, can you think of any connection? > > I know I’m really grasping at straws here and have spent waaaaay to many brain cells on this today. As _middleman_ said, Sawyer was the guy who swindled James’ mom. Robert J Sawyer’s books seem to have a level of dissecting our concepts of humanity and god wrapped up in scifi (at least the very few books of his I’ve read, been meaning to read more of his stuff…) ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/132 "2006-01-19T22:54:46Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > I thought the whole confrontation wth the ‘others’ was poorly done. First of all, _don’t you have any questions for them, guys?_ Why in heck did they seem completely uninterested in A) how the ‘others’ got on the island, and B) What in hell is going on? > > And what, no negotiations? Bluebeard says, “Start a fire, we’ve got some talking to do”. I fully expected the next scene to be a sit-down around a campfire where some secrets are revealed, perhaps a pact is made, or at least there’s an attempt to understand each side’s point of view. But no… They remain mysterious, turn over Kate, and that’s it? Everyone just goes their own way. And now Jack is going to raise an army against them? WTF? That’s simply suicidal. These people have resources Jack doesn’t know about, he has no idea how many of them there are, they’re obviously totally at home on the island, well armed, and able to move in groups of 10 without Locke or anyone else know they are there. > > It all just seems way too contrived. I agree. I thought Jack should have called him out on his lame analogy of making a comparison to trespassing in someone’s house. If a schoolbus crashes into my house I for one don’t run out and start killing some of the survivors. And when they try to go up the street to get some help I don’t torch their transportation and kidnap one of their kids. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/133 "2006-01-19T22:59:55Z")
> [@Draelin](#): > > I could swear he said “Michael’s fine,” not “Michael will never find us,” but I could be wrong. I was pretty sure he (Bluebeard) said both things - that Michael was fine and that he’d never find them. Anyone tape it who can watch again and verify this? ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/134 "2006-01-19T23:05:16Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > It was in the season one finale, when Rousseau showed up in camp to warn them that the Others were coming. > > She said that she saw “a pillar of smoke,” and then that night “they came and took her.” > > I remember this pretty clearly because at the end, when they took Michael, folks spotted a young woman assumed to be Alex (based on her age and sex) on the kidnappers’ boat. Thanks! I still don’t remember it, but at least I know just how badly I’m losing it. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/135 "2006-01-19T23:14:16Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Oh, and by the way, is anyone else a bit let down that tonight’s flashbacks are Jack again, his second this season? > > I want more Locke! Or Claire! Or Charlie! Or Libby! Or Sawyer! Bite your tongue, you fool! I want more of Jack. Sans clothes. My gosh but Matthew Fox floats my boat. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/136 "2006-01-19T23:26:49Z")
I’d also prefer the help of a Republican Guard officer to an unstable ex-cop in training an army. In any case, I’m good and sick of Our Gang being helpless whenever they encounter the various Others. (Although it looked like the Tailies could have dealt with their people-snatching Others by just keeping watch at night.) In particular, I’d like to see Sawyer beat the ever-loving shit out of BB. But the survivors have been at the mercy of the various forces on the island long enough; I’d love to see them go on the offensive, kick some ass, and start to get a handle on the subject of What the Hell is Going On. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/137 "2006-01-19T23:29:23Z")
Does anything think (or is it obvious) that more happened between Jack and Gabriella than that one kiss? When Jack was confessing in the kitchen, it sure sounded like more happened, but a kiss was all we saw. I realize Jack loves his guilt, but he was acting way guiltier than he needed to, if the kiss was all that happened. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/138 "2006-01-19T23:31:39Z")
> [@Encinitas](#): > > When all the torches lit up in a circle I thought: “oooo…Tribal Council! I wonder whose torch will be extinguished?” “Who has immunity? Who will be voted off this week?” Funny, because when I saw “Bluebeard” I hollered “Rupert!” ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/139 "2006-01-19T23:36:03Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Does anything think (or is it obvious) that more happened between Jack and Gabriella than that one kiss? > > When Jack was confessing in the kitchen, it sure sounded like more happened, but a kiss was all we saw. > > I realize Jack loves his guilt, but he was acting way guiltier than he needed to, if the kiss was all that happened. Really? A romantic kiss outside of marriage is a pretty big deal, if you ask me. I don’t think anything else happened. Unfortunately, I didn’t find that scene all that believable either. It just felt contrived. Her dad has been dead for only a matter of hours, and she’s suddenly all hot for the doctor? I don’t buy it. Just more poor writing. I hate bagging on this show, because it’s still one of my favorites. I just wish the quality of the writing would improve a little. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518/140 "2006-01-19T23:40:19Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Does anything think (or is it obvious) that more happened between Jack and Gabriella than that one kiss? > > When Jack was confessing in the kitchen, it sure sounded like more happened, but a kiss was all we saw. > > I realize Jack loves his guilt, but he was acting way guiltier than he needed to, if the kiss was all that happened. I don’t think so. I think he felt guilty (rightfully so) that he had kissed another woman. As a married man, I wouldn’t feel much worse about my wife sleeping with a guy than if she just kissed him. I promise you my wife feels the same! But I am intrigued by Gabriella. I have a feeling that her introduction was not just tacked on to explain the failure of Jack’s marriage. That’s right. I think she’s in on it. What “it” is, I have no idea! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-11-the-hunting-party/340518.md?page=8)