# Lost 2.12: "Fire + Water" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 25, 2006, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505 "2006-01-25T03:45:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/121 "2006-01-27T00:09:39Z")
Not only has the whole show been about fifty days–this season has only been ten or so. They might not want to be thinking about building a raft because the last raft trip went so spectacularly crappily. It was only two weeks or so ago that everybody found out about the hatch. re: the laundry and other mundane tasks–this seems about right to me. People who feel helpless will often plunge into mundane tasks, just so they can feel like they’re doing something. Without any clear leadership at the moment, I’m not sure what they would be doing instead. As for exploring the island, that hasn’t exactly gone well most of the time, either, so I can understand why they’d be reluctant. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/122 "2006-01-27T00:13:37Z")
> [@rockle](#): > > Not to pick nits, but just because _we_ don’t know about the water situation doesn’t mean _they_ don’t know. They found fresh water pretty quickly on the island, back when they found Adam and Eve, so water storage doesn’t seem to be an issue – they can just go to the waterfall when they need more. The Tailies also know where other water sources are, since it appears their water was coming from a different part of the island. I don’t want to give these people _too_ much credit, because they are dumb as boxes of hair for the most part, but we don’t know what exploration they’ve already done within The Hatch. It doesn’t seem too far-fetched to me to believe that Dharma set up the washer-dryer and shower with a hot water heater and storage tank that fills right from the spring/stream. > > Now, what I don’t get is _why nobody is asking where in the hell the electricity is coming from_. Even a generator has to be fueled by _something_. Maybe it’s because I’m not an engineer, but for the life of me I cannot fathom how one could hook up a washing machine and a shower directly to a stream. But even if that were possible, where does the waste water go? Right back into the stream? It’s just completely absurd that no one seems to have thought to check. I’d’ve even been satisfied with a throw-away line to indicate they even thought about it, or considered there might be some benefit to knowing if there’s a gigantic resevoir out there that would prevent them from having to boil the stream water before it was potable. Obviously it would be ridiculous for them to be spending every waking moment terrified of their surroundings, but some pretty nasty, scary stuff has been going on and they all seem to be taking it in utter stride. With the exception of when Locke first found the hatch, there’s absolutely no curiousity from these people. They’re hanging clothes, playing golf, doing physical therapy, gardening – as if no one’s ever been mysteriously nabbed from their group and dragged off into the jungle, never to be seen again. As if half the people haven’t suffered strange hallucinations. As if there haven’t been sightings of bizarre animals, like horses and _polar bears_ on a tropical island. As if there isn’t an armed and hostile group of unknown size and intent somewhere just over the damn hill. And I agree with **SBS** , the resources they’ve destroyed have been grossly wasteful, given that they have no clue how long they’re going to have to try to survive there. I understood the need to dispose of the bodies, but drag their carcasses into the jungle and bury them, toss them out to sea as fish food, or pile them up in the middle of the beach and burn them – but don’t burn the whole damn plane. And even if not everybody knows there was another plane in the jungle, at the very least the big macho guys who’ve supposedly been leading this group sure did – Jack and Locke. I would think at least _they’d_ be smart enough to salvage whatever scraps they could from the wreckage. No matter how small or seemingly insignificant, when you’re in a survival situation like that, _everything_ matters. If you can’t find a use for it now, save it, and most likely a use will turn up at some point. I don’t mind when some things are left to the viewer to assume or left to the imagination, but I do mind when glaringly obvious things are completely unaddressed – especially when ignoring them makes the characters look bloody stupid. And this week’s one-liner about the newness of the appliances illustrates exactly what I’m talking about – it satisfies, because it tells us that we aren’t the only ones who notice, care and wonder about these things. And for most of the above, that’s all it would take to alleviate the frustration and annoyance (admittedly only some) viewers might be experiencing. I just think this show is turning from scary and intriguing to stupid and ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/123 "2006-01-27T00:52:15Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Well, I guess I’ll be in the minority that really liked this episode. It was the first one this season that left me with the whole confused “what the hell was _that_ all about?” feeling that I got with nearly every episode of season one. They’ve been doing too much explaining lately and not enough mystifying. I liked it. > > I also liked the “Kate sees a horse and just about everyone has seen Walt running around the jungle!” line. They ARE reading our threads! Hi, Lost writers! I agree that I liked this episode - mostly because of the increased surrealism - even though I was alternately pissed with Charlie for losing all common sense and everyone else for how they were treating Charlie’s “condition.” Did anyone else think that Libby looked COMPLETELY ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/124 "2006-01-27T00:52:24Z")
> [@Wile E](#): > > As someone else commented, considering the things Sawyer, Sayid and Jin have done and how they seemed to have been forgiven, they could cut Charlie a little slack, too. What has Sayid done? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/125 "2006-01-27T00:54:14Z")
Someone else pointed out that the heroin on the second plane would be valuable in case someone is severely injured. (And in fact Sawyer could have used some painkiller.) ---
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/126 "2006-01-27T00:59:49Z")
> [@vaderspal](#): > > Did anyone else think that Libby looked COMPLETELY crap! sorry, new member + unfamilar keyboard = trouble _ahem_ Did anyone else think that Libby looked COMPLETELY different? I could hardly pay attention to the Hurley/laundry scene because I was trying to work out if it was a different actress. Am I crazy? If it was the same woman, I swear she got botox or something - her usually great expressive eyes were all weird. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/127 "2006-01-27T01:06:05Z")
> [@](#): > > As he said last episode, and forgot by the middle of this one, who is he to make that kind of decision for Charlie? I’m really surprised that people are saying Locke overreacted. It was all well and good for Charlie to wrestle with his addiction, but when he’s setting fires and running into the ocean in the middle of the night with someone else’s baby, he has a smack in the head or three coming. It really doesn’t matter how right he thinks he is about the baptism; it’s Claire’s decision to make. You don’t just take the baby and run off. I don’t think Locke is evil. I think he believes he knows what’s best to do and he does it, regardless of what anyone else thinks. That could be said to be jerkish, but Jack does the same thing, making decisions and doling out information as he sees fit. I think some dubious secret-keeping and jockeying is going on, and it remains to be seen who is right and who is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![buncombe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@buncombe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buncombe)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/128 "2006-01-27T01:19:39Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > What has Sayid done? Stuck bad things under Sawyer’s nails? Moped? Heck, that’s all I got. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/129 "2006-01-27T01:37:30Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Fifty people with very little to do should be accomplishing more than gathering fruit and tanning their well-groomed bodies. > > “Wait, there’s another six hatches around here? I wonder what we can find in the others. Maybe they have radios. Maybe Hurley’s magic numbers were being broadcast from there…if so, SOMEONE IS PICKING IT UP! We’re saved!” > > -Joe sorry, but no. The numbers were being transmitted up until 16 years, 1 1/2 months ago, then CFL found the transmitter and switched it to her own distress signal. That broadcast is what was transmitting powerfully enough to block Sayid’s emergency radio. How it was doing that without itself being picked up as a distress call is yet another of the island’s mysteries. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/130 "2006-01-27T01:40:41Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > This is the only one I’m willing to give them a pass on. Having all the ammo in the world doesn’t mean anything if you can’t hit shit. > > I’m going to guess that Sayid, Locke, Eko, and Anna Lucia are, so far, the only people who have some firearms expertise. Everyone else would just be a target if they don’t get any practice. > > -Joe Sawyer and Charlie have both used guns on the island, Kate used one to shoot her accomplices in the bank heist, and Jack was carrying one for a while. Locke also showed Michael how to use a rifle. It wouldn’t suprise me if Jin knew how to use one. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/131 "2006-01-27T02:21:04Z")
> [@buncombe](#): > > Stuck bad things under Sawyer’s nails? > > Moped? > > Heck, that’s all I got. Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. He reluctantly tortured someone that everyone hated to help a girl with an asthma attack - can’t imagine that requires forgiving. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/132 "2006-01-27T02:29:09Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > What has Sayid done? The torturing Sawyer thing. Granted they thought Sawyer was withholding Shannon’s medications and Sawyer hadn’t been everyone’s darling but torture is a bit above and beyond. Add that with the fact that he’s Iraqi and was in the Republican Guard might make some people wonder what else he might be capable of. Yes, he did go off on his own to contemplate what he had done and he has done a lot to help the survivors, but people didn’t even seem to give him a second thought about the torture thing. The way word seems to get around on that island, I’m sure the news of that deed did. ---
**Author:** ![buncombe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@buncombe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buncombe)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/133 "2006-01-27T02:30:17Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. He reluctantly tortured someone that everyone hated to help a girl with an asthma attack - can’t imagine that requires forgiving. Well, then he stabbed Sawyer. Who was being a bit of a pain. But yeah, I don’t see any evidence that anyone-- even Sawyer-- really held anything against Sayid. Just trying to help! ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/134 "2006-01-27T02:41:58Z")
I kinda got the impression that Locke punched Charlie because he _could_ punch Charlie. Somehow I doubt Locke would be so quick to punch one of the larger men on the island, even if they’d done the same thing. And that makes Locke a bully. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/135 "2006-01-27T03:24:03Z")
I agree that the castaways are showing a ridiculous lack of curiousity about their environment. In last week’s episode, Locke asked the pirates “how do you know our names?” and Jack immediately asked them “where’s Michael?” I was thinking, “Shut up, Jack - Locke just asked a really good question and let’s see what the answer is.” ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/136 "2006-01-27T04:42:13Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I kinda got the impression that Locke punched Charlie because he _could_ punch Charlie. Somehow I doubt Locke would be so quick to punch one of the larger men on the island, even if they’d done the same thing. And that makes Locke a bully. Really? Do you get the vibe that he’s an insecure coward? I don’t think he’d hesistate to punch anyone on the island if he had a good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/137 "2006-01-27T04:50:19Z")
Thinking about some of the things said here about Libby, I came up with a new idea. What if Libby recognizes Hurley from the TV coverage of his winning the lottery. Perhap she’s a gold-digger who was following him around, waiting for the right time to introduce herself and that’s why he recognizes her. Her plan was, and still is, to get close to him, marry him, divorce him, and collect half his $156,000,000. (Or kill him and get it all.) ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/138 "2006-01-27T05:23:31Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Really? Do you get the vibe that he’s an insecure coward? I don’t think he’d hesistate to punch anyone on the island if he had a good reason. I thought it was out of character for him, which is what bothers me. Previously Locke didn’t strike me (ha, no pun intended) as the type to hit someone just because he’s bigger and can. Had it been Jack, or Sawyer, or Jin, or Sayid, or Eko he’d have yelled at them, but he wouldn’t have swung, unless he wanted his teeth handed to him. Charlie, you can punch. He ain’t that tough. Locke wants to be big man on the island, but so far he’s been smart (or cowardly) about it. Seems now he’s getting more bold. What influence has Locke had on the island? Charlie. Young. Addict. Walt. A boy. Boone. Also young, impressionable and easily manipulated. Plus he got Boone killed. Claire. Also young and manipulable. I can’t wait for the day he takes a swing at Eko or Jack or Sawyer or Sayid or Jin. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/139 "2006-01-27T05:34:41Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I thought it was out of character for him, which is what bothers me. Previously Locke didn’t strike me (ha, no pun intended) as the type to hit someone just because he’s bigger and can. Had it been Jack, or Sawyer, or Jin, or Sayid, or Eko he’d have yelled at them, but he wouldn’t have swung, unless he wanted his teeth handed to him. Charlie, you can punch. He ain’t that tough. I disagree with this notion. Locke has been liberated from a shitty life in society by being stuck on the island. He’s thrived in it, become a hardcore hunter-gatherer, because he’s in a situation where he can express an inner need to be a primal warrior type that wasn’t applicable in his previous life. The ability to fight is as much, or more, about will than physical ability. I wouldn’t bet against him in a fight against anyone there, except perhaps Sawyer, who probably has been in quite a few fights in his lifetime. Or Sayid, but only if he was highly motivated. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505/140 "2006-01-27T05:35:55Z")
I forgot about Eko. Eko has obviously had the most experience in the fighting/badass department, and is obviously extremely fit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-12-fire-water/341505.md?page=8)