# Lost 2.14 "One of Them"
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [February 15, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668 "2006-02-15T19:22:09Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 10
### Author:  [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/181 "2006-02-16T20:19:03Z")
Just one week.
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### Author:  [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/182 "2006-02-16T20:25:28Z")
Hmm. Millionaire balloonists. Reminds me of [Twenty One Balloons](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twenty-One_Balloons), which I read 20 years ago in fifth grade. The hatches are just different restaurants, started by eccentric millionaire families! Dharma Initiative is funded by a diamond mine on a vanishing Pacific Island! BTW, hot air balloons are definitely the way to escape this island, especially with the endless supply of tarps that they seem to have.
Second, I think that computer wants to play a game. Let’s play Global Thermonuclear War. Where’s Dabney Coleman when you really need him?
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### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/183 "2006-02-16T20:30:20Z")
> [@JThunder](#):
>
> Folks, he most definitely said “non-metallic minerals.”
I most definitely heard “non-metallic metals”.
Guess we’ll have to go to tape!
Judges?
-Joe
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### Author:  [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/184 "2006-02-16T20:32:12Z")
> [@edwino](#):
>
> Let’s play Global Thermonuclear War.
How. About. A. Nice. Game. Of. Chess.
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### Author:  [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/185 "2006-02-16T20:32:32Z")
Baraqiyal’s link says “swdb. caus. die.” I think that means that the verb “die” is the [causative transitive](http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/causative-verb.html). “The causative is related to the when we do not carry out an action ourselves, but are responsible for the action being performed.” This involves the use of the verb to have or to make, as in “The DIA guy had/made Sayid torture Tariq,” as opposd to “Sayid tortured Tariq” or “Tariq was tortured by Sayid.” So in this case it would mean someone caused the death of someone else, which makes me think that, if the timer runs out, someone will die somewhere else, not in the hatch where the button wasn’t pushed.
> [@Birdmonster](#):
>
> -I’m not the only person who loathes Jack, am I? So self-righteous, so judgemental, and definately naive. Stick to doctoring, my man.
I don’t loathe him but I am starting to think he’s a total tool. He is far too naive for this stage of the game. Also, what does he plan to do about the Balloonman? Let him join their happy little band? That would be most unwise. I can understand his squeamishness about torture because I share it, but he has to come up with some other viable plan, unless he wants to keep Balloonman locked in the armory forever, which would be a form of torture in itself. Jack’s self-righteousness is misplaced. People get hurt in wars, so as Locke said, if you want to start an army, what do you THINK is going to come of it? Only the “bad guys” are going to get hurt?
> [@](#):
>
> -Hatch guy is totally evil. I demand more torture.
I think he’s evil too. Sayid should ask him to lead them to where his wife is buried, or to where the crashed balloon is, or to where his camp is. Some sort of material proof must be available to back up his story.
The adverts at the bottom of the thread are for balloon rides. :eek: Um, no thanks…
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/186 "2006-02-16T20:32:39Z")
> [@ivylass](#):
>
> So are we to infer that Hurley did NOT bring out all the food from the hatch for the feast, and held some back for his own enjoyment?\* Jeez, between Hurley hiding food and Charlie hiding statues, someone’s going to break a toe on a jar of peanut butter or a Virgin Mary.
I hate to beat a dead horse (well, not really, but I feel vaguely self-conscious about it) but I think the hoarding thing is central to Rousseau’s “sickness.” One line that jumped out at me was when Locke said to Sayid, “To Rousseau, we’re all others.” I’ve said it before, but I think that’s just it. Reading [_Discourse on Inquality_](http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/Rousseau-inequality2.html), you’re hit over the head with that word: [_Others, others, others, others, others._](http://i1.tinypic.com/nx51z6.gif) Everything comes down to the position we’re put in by the imposition of society and how our actions are driven by comparing ourselves to others.
> [@](#):
>
> The first man who, having enclosed a piece of ground, bethought himself of saying “This is mine,” and found people simple enough to believe him, was the real founder of civil society. Humanity would have been spared infinite crimes, wars, homicides, murders, if only someone had ripped up the fences or filled in the ditches and said, “Do not listen to this pretender! You are eternally lost if you do not remember that the fruits of the earth are everyone’s property and that the land is no-one’s property!” […]
>
> Thus, as every man punished the contempt shown him by others, in proportion to his opinion of himself, [in comparison to others] revenge became terrible, and men bloody and cruel. This is precisely the state reached by most of the savage nations known to us: and it is for want of having made a proper distinction in our ideas, and seen how very far they already are from the state of nature, that so many writers have hastily concluded that man is naturally cruel, and requires civil institutions to make him more mild; whereas nothing is more gentle than man in his primitive state, as he is placed by nature at an equal distance from the stupidity of brutes, and the fatal ingenuity of civilised man. Equally confined by instinct and reason to the sole care of guarding himself against the mischiefs which threaten him, he is restrained by natural compassion from doing any injury to others, and is not led to do such a thing even in return for injuries received. For, according to the axiom of the wise Locke, There can be no injury, where there is no property. […]
>
> **It now became the interest of men to appear what they really were not. To be and to seem became two totally different things; and from this distinction sprang insolent pomp and cheating trickery, with all the numerous vices that go in their train.** […] Insatiable ambition, the thirst of raising their respective fortunes, not so much from real want as from the desire to surpass others, inspired all men to a vile propensity to injure one another, and with a secret jealousy, which is the more dangerous, as it puts on the mask of benevolence, to carry its point with greatest security. In a word, there arose rivalry and competition on the one hand, and conflicting interests on the other together with a secret desire on both of profiting at the expense of others. All these evils were the first effects of property, and the inseparable attendants of growing inequality.
So of course Hurley is duplicitous. Make a big show of equinamity, (because it’s important that others think well of you,) but make damned sure you got yours. There’s _stuff_ at stake.
There’s also group identity that creates the classes of “us” and “them.” In Sayid’s backstory, they played with that quite a bit. The first “them” was the Americans. Even though they were “others” themselves, they bent Sayid to their will by making it clear that the people they wanted him to go to work on were “others.” “Look what they did to _your_ people.” His revenge was “terrible, bloody, and cruel.”
Now Sayid identifies with the losties, and there’s a new set of “others.” Uncle Henry is an other just because he’s outside of the set of people that Sayid considers “us.” When Jin, Michael, and Sawyer first met the tailies, it was ugly because each group was dealing with the _others_.
I think that Blackbeard and the rest are eventually going to shown to be less sinister than they appear. Sure, they make midnight raids on the camps of others and snatch people away – but they say they only take the “good ones.” Why? My guess is that, to them, everyone else consitutes the terrible “others.” They’ve become so warped that they think taking people away is the right thing to do. They’re _saving_ them from the “bad” people. They’re totally twisted, and their actions are abhorrent – but it seems like the right thing to do, given that they’re dealing with _“others.”_ It’s easy to justify, and they feel no more guilt than Sayid does for breaking a grievously injured widower’s knuckles with a pair of pliers.
Anyway… Dharma Initiative Ranch Dressing is good for seven years at room temperature, eh? I think it was probably put to much better use for target practice than as a dip. Yurgh.
And, batshit crazy or not, it’s ridiculous that no-one is nosing around looking for Rousseau’s camp. She might be a little hasty with the cross-bow, but I’d take my chances. She’s ridiculously hot. _Rawr._
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/187 "2006-02-16T20:32:55Z")
Am I just clueless about the ways of balloons, or is it weird that he said they used a mix of helium and hot air?
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### Author:  [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/188 "2006-02-16T20:36:17Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#):
>
> I think that Blackbeard and the rest are eventually going to shown to be less sinister than they appear. Sure, they make midnight raids on the camps of others and snatch people away – but they say they only take the “good ones.” Why?
My question is, if Jack is soooo good, why haven’t they tried to kidnap him yet?
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### Author:  [@LateComer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LateComer)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/189 "2006-02-16T20:38:27Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#):
>
> I was under the impression that the whole army idea never really got off the ground. You mentioned the three most likely cantidates (Kate & Eko being up there as well) and without any of those folks, well, you got a pretty lame army. Unless the “army” is really just a posse so that Jack can assert his will on the Lost-aways…_shakes fist at Jack_
Once somebody stole all the guns I think the idea of an army just faded away. I suppose they could have a bamboo stick army . . .
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### Author:  [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/190 "2006-02-16T20:40:25Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#):
>
> Am I just clueless about the ways of balloons, or is it weird that he said they used a mix of helium and hot air?
No. Hybrid balloons are the only way to get across an ocean with any means of control.
Pure helium takes you too high, and you have to wear a pressure suit. Propane is far too heavy to be the sole means of lift on a trans-oceanic flight.
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### Author:  [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/191 "2006-02-16T20:44:06Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#):
>
> Am I just clueless about the ways of balloons, or is it weird that he said they used a mix of helium and hot air?
Oddly, I was just reading about pioneer balloonist Jean-François Pilâtre de Rozier. The answer to your question is, it’s [not weird at all.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rozier_balloon)
> [@](#):
>
> The Rozier balloon is a type of hybrid balloon that has separate chambers for a non-heated lifting gas (such as hydrogen or helium) as well as a heated lifting gas (as used in a hot air balloon.) This type of aircraft takes its name from its creator, Jean-François Pilâtre de Rozier.
Although:
> [@](#):
>
> The first Rozier design was built for an attempt at crossing the English Channel on 15 June 1785. But when the flame used to keep the air hot ignited the flammable hydrogen the aircraft exploded killing both de Rozier and his companion, Pierre Romain.
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/192 "2006-02-16T21:01:50Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#):
>
> My question is, if Jack is soooo good, why haven’t they tried to kidnap him yet?
Who says he’s good? Besides, they probably have their own doctors.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/193 "2006-02-16T21:35:06Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#):
>
> I think he’s evil too. Sayid should ask him to lead them to where his wife is buried, or to where the crashed balloon is, or to where his camp is. Some sort of material proof must be available to back up his story.
>
> The adverts at the bottom of the thread are for balloon rides. :eek: Um, no thanks…
What if there really was Balloonist and this Other is pretending to be him?
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/194 "2006-02-16T21:35:06Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#):
>
> My question is, if Jack is soooo good, why haven’t they tried to kidnap him yet?
“Good” is a subjective concept. Start from the precept that the “others” are bad, and anyone that appears to be in a leadership position is automatically bad. “Passive” is probably a big part of what constitutes “good” to Blackbeard’s crew. Children are automatically included, because they’re malleable. Jack’s basically a good guy, but from their point of view, he’s not “good enough” because he’s unlikely to transfer his allegiance to their group. (The _good_ people.)
Eko was brought into a new group as a child, because it was determined that he was “good enough” – by their lights. He could see things _their_ way. He did terrible things, but in his own self-assessment, he remained “good.” We saw him murder two men – but they were _others_ – Morrocans. He felt no guilt about killing them, because their actions were a threat to _his_ people. In his mind, the important thing was getting the heroin out of Nigeria – it was a bonus that he could profit by it. But he spared the kid, and wanted to make sure that he told his friends what a great guy he was: “Tell your friends that Mr. Eko let you live.” And part of the proceeds of the sale would go toward vaccines. Harm is transmuted into good – for the people he identified with. So it’s okay to kill the Moroccans, and there’s no concern about _foreign_ junkies.
Jack’s not “good” to Blackbeard, because you can be sure that he’ll always put the interests of the Losties above those of another group. That’s bad, if your standard of “good” is closely tied to the welfare of Blackbeard’s people.
Shee-it, look at the most recent encounter from Blackbeard’s POV. An armed party comes crashing in their direction. He says Walt’s fine. Good kid. “Special boy.” We’re very quick to imagine that they grabbed him for some sinister purpose and are doing weird experiments on him in an underground bunker. I don’t think so. I’m inclined to take Blackbeard at his word when he says, “I come in peace… We’ve got a misunderstanding, Jack – your people, my people.”
Assuming that it _is_ Walt who IM’d Michael, he says he’s okay, and that Michael needs to come. I’ll bet that Michael came across the others and was persuaded to transfer allegiance to them with little difficulty. A _huge_ misunderstanding, of course – but something that they were able to work out.
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### Author:  [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/195 "2006-02-16T21:48:54Z")
So no one wants to call Blackbeard “Mr. Friendly”. That’s the producers’ name for him.
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### Author:  [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/196 "2006-02-16T21:57:42Z")
> [@BobT](#):
>
> So no one wants to call Blackbeard “Mr. Friendly”. That’s the producers’ name for him.
As in Edgar Friendly, from the fabulously underrated “Demolition Man”?
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/197 "2006-02-16T22:09:38Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#):
>
> I’ll bet that Michael came across the others and was persuaded to transfer allegiance to them with little difficulty. A _huge_ misunderstanding, of course – but something that they were able to work out.
I’ll bet he didn’t–BB said that Michael would never find them.
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### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/198 "2006-02-16T22:22:51Z")
Even if Balloonman can show them his wife’s dead body . . .
That wouldn’t prove that she wasn’t an Other as well. Unless the Others are immortal. Or unless they can take the form of a dead female. Or even a balloon (have we ruled out the possibility of their being shape shifters?).
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### Author:  [@Vision\_of\_Love](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vision_of_Love)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/199 "2006-02-16T22:31:29Z")
Does anyone know what was written in Arabic on a brick wall in one of the first flashbacks in the episode? Was it important?
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/200 "2006-02-16T22:43:06Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#):
>
> I’ll bet he didn’t–BB said that Michael would never find them.
True, but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t/won’t. Something’s got to happen, and I don’t see Michael just wandering back into the Losties’ camp after a week or two of wandering around in the forest, relying only on grubs, roots, and berries for the strength required to scream _“WAAAAAAAAAALT!”_ every thirty seconds.
And I don’t think he’ll turn up dead, either.
> [@panache45](#):
>
> Or unless they can take the form of a dead female. Or even a balloon (have we ruled out the possibility of their being shape shifters?).
Ooh! [Rover!](http://www.beechlog.co.uk/blog200501/rover.jpg)
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