# Lost 2.14 "One of Them" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 15, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668 "2006-02-15T19:22:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/201 "2006-02-16T23:01:05Z")
> [@Oslo Ostragoth](#): > > His badge said DIA. Decentralized Intelligence Agency. 😉 > [@misstee](#): > > He _was_ a millionaire. So is/was Hurley…156x over…That’s why he’s got to have enough body surface to take on 156 arrows… :eek: Since I have only been on the Lost Threads for only 2 weeks, and I might come off as Captain Obvious or Captain Redundant, but: 4 + 8 + 15 + 16 + 23 + 42 = 108 If this has been brought up before, my apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/202 "2006-02-16T23:22:34Z")
Yeticus: I’ve only been on the thread for a week, so I enjoyed it. I have not yet embraced the salivating madness that are the mysteries of Lost. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/203 "2006-02-16T23:40:39Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > So no one wants to call Blackbeard “Mr. Friendly”. That’s the producers’ name for him. I kinda liked “Zeke”, Sawyers nickname for him. I wonder how/if the black smoke is connected with the timer. It’s all Alvar Hanso’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/204 "2006-02-16T23:49:01Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > I kinda liked “Zeke”, Sawyers nickname for him. > > I wonder how/if the black smoke is connected with the timer. > > It’s all Alvar Hanso’s fault. I’m kinda sorta thinking the black cloud is connected with Walt. Like, the Others are “collecting” gifted children they know can use their innate powers to control/use the cloud as some sort of remote viewing tool, that just so happens to read minds. Or something. Then again it could just be a cloud of nanobots that escaped from a Michael Crichton novel and are looking for their way back as they indifferently lay waste to the local flora. Or something. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/205 "2006-02-17T00:54:03Z")
The new guys might want to head over the the Lost Questions thread linked in the first post of this thread. It really gets you into the minutia of the mysteries. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/206 "2006-02-17T00:59:56Z")
> [@Trion](#): > > \*\* glares at **Kythereia** in a not-at-all suspicious manner \*\* Quick! Everybody! Form an army! _grabs bamboo stick_ ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/207 "2006-02-17T01:10:23Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > “Good” is a subjective concept. Start from the precept that the “others” are bad, and anyone that appears to be in a leadership position is automatically bad. Why? > [@](#): > > “Passive” is probably a big part of what constitutes “good” to Blackbeard’s crew. Children are automatically included, because they’re malleable. Eko wasn’t passive. Walt wasn’t either, really. > [@](#): > > Jack’s basically a good guy, but from their point of view, he’s not “good enough” because he’s unlikely to transfer his allegiance to their group. (The _good_ people.) I’m not sure I’m following you here. > [@](#): > > Eko was brought into a new group as a child, because it was determined that he was “good enough” – by their lights. He could see things _their_ way. That just doesn’t make sense. Why would they think he could see things their way? Why would they think he was passive and malleable? He kicked whoever’s ass tried to grab him, so their decision to target him must have been based on some other criteria than “will go over to our side.” > [@](#): > > He did terrible things, but in his own self-assessment, he remained “good.” And you don’t think that Jack, in his own self-assessment, is good? Or Locke? > [@](#): > > Jack’s not “good” to Blackbeard, because you can be sure that he’ll always put the interests of the Losties above those of another group. That’s bad, if your standard of “good” is closely tied to the welfare of Blackbeard’s people. Based on the sum of their life experiences, Jack is still more “good” than Eko, who has lately had a change of heart about life but was a murderer and a drug dealer before. Jack is also a doctor, which would be “good” for BB’s people, even if they already have one. He’s also a decent, kind person who puts other people’s welfare very high on his list of priorities, even to a fault. Eko is clearly good, good enough to ward off that black cloud, but what about Jack? > [@](#): > > I’m inclined to take Blackbeard at his word when he says, “I come in peace… We’ve got a misunderstanding, Jack – your people, my people.” I still don’t know what he meant by that. > [@](#): > > I’ll bet that Michael came across the others and was persuaded to transfer allegiance to them with little difficulty. A _huge_ misunderstanding, of course – but something that they were able to work out. I highly doubt this. I think Michael is still wandering around out there and will come back with some weird stories, but I don’t think he’s going to find the Others unless they want to be found. ---
**Author:** ![misstee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@misstee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misstee)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/208 "2006-02-17T02:06:03Z")
[QUOTE=Yeticus Rex] Decentralized Intelligence Agency. 😉 So is/was HurleyQUOTE] I was merely stating what he said to Sayid. He _was_ a rich man. Then Sayid asked him what he meant by _was_. ---
**Author:** ![Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ass_For_A_Hat)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/209 "2006-02-17T02:47:27Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > I most definitely heard “non-metallic metals”. > > Guess we’ll have to go to tape! I just listened again, and it is definitely “non-metallic minerals”. I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/210 "2006-02-17T03:19:35Z")
I have been waiting for the next episode, I hope we get some answers about Claire. I want to find out more about her and she has been neglected the last few episodes. When she came back last season I _knew_ she would remember more about her capture someday and hopefully we will find out what that was all about. Maybe she will remember more about Ethan? Or her memories will bring her closer to Charlie again? I feel bad for Charlie even after his misdeeds, he really does care about Claire. I find it interesting or maybe infuriating that our Lostaways don’t seem more intrigued by the other people on the island and the coincidences that brought all these people to the same ‘deserted’ island. Especially Hurley, although I don’t think he knows about the captive yet. He is the one who is paranoid about the numbers…but we haven’t learned anything new about them lately either. Pretty soon they are going to have to build highrises with all the people that are on this island. Charlie barely shrugged when Sayid told him they had captured someone in the hatch. I would be like ‘WTF why are all of these people on this island’ by now. When Sayid was questioning Balloon Man he asked him about his communication device or radio or something…was that significant? I still love this show but I have the feeling when all is revealed I am just going to have to watch it all again anyway and everything will look completely different. I love the parallels the writers draw between the characters’ pasts and what is happening on the island. I think as others (ha) have pointed out the allusions to war and the enemy are especially interesting. Maybe in the end we will find out the Others’ true story and they will be the Good Guys and our Lostaways are the Real Enemies. Especially now I wonder since the Others did not kill them when they had the chance, instead just telling them to stay away and they would leave them alone. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/211 "2006-02-17T03:32:19Z")
> [@](#): > > here’s my list of possibilities for not pressing the button: > > 1. launches a doomsday device that wipes the planet clean. > > 2. activates an island-destroying weapon of some sort. > > 3. initiates some sort of communication device that calls Opal to say hello. > > Any others? Jeff Probst steps out of the jungle and tells them they’ve lost immunity. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/212 "2006-02-17T03:36:32Z")
I have to question Locke’s motives here (hardly for the first time). Last week he was saying that they should do nothing to antagonize the Others. This week he agrees to help have one of the Others tortured. Doesn’t he worry that that might piss them off? Now Sayid and Charlie are apparently planning some kind of commando raid on the Others. And Jack is apparently opposed to this idea. But a week ago Jack was planning on launching his own raid against the Others. Is there some consistency here I’m missing? ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/213 "2006-02-17T03:40:14Z")
> [@Ass For A Hat](#): > > I just listened again, and it is definitely “non-metallic minerals”. I stand corrected. If it makes you feel any better, three people in my house heard the same thing the first time. I even asked my SO what in the world “non-metallic metals” could be and thought that Sayid had a clue right there that he was lying. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/214 "2006-02-17T04:00:16Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > I have to question Locke’s motives here (hardly for the first time). Last week he was saying that they should do nothing to antagonize the Others. This week he agrees to help have one of the Others tortured. Doesn’t he worry that that might piss them off? How will the Others know what they do to BalloonMan? Can the Others really expect to be allowed to get that close (breaking the bargain themselves) and have no response from the Losties? I didn’t get the sense that the Others expect the Losties to be completely passive and not defend themselves. > [@](#): > > Now Sayid and Charlie are apparently planning some kind of commando raid on the Others. And Jack is apparently opposed to this idea. But a week ago Jack was planning on launching his own raid against the Others. Where did you get the idea that they’re planning a commando raid? Did I miss something? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/215 "2006-02-17T04:11:10Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Why [is “good” a subjective concept]? It just is. Basic truism of social psychology and group dynamics. What you perceive as “good” and “bad” is closely connected to the sociological group you belong to. Group identity is reinforced through the constitutive other, frequently in very negative ways. It’s primitive, but it’s worked well enough for us for thousands of years, if you overlook all the bloodshed. > [@](#): > > Eko wasn’t passive. Walt wasn’t either, really. Passive _within the group_, or at least non-aggressive. (ie; not in a _leadership_ position in the hated/feared “other” group.) Sure, the “others” might expect some resistance from the kid – everyone’s afraid of the unfamiliar. That doesn’t mean they don’t think they’re doing the right thing. Kids will even resist being taken into custody by CPS and removed from horrible situations. But you still do what you gotta do, because it seems like the right thing to do. (Not to draw an equivalence, mind.) > [@Rubystreak](#): > > I’m not sure I’m following you here. I don’t think you are. I’m not talking about “good” and “bad” in any objective sense – just from the point of view of the “others,” who are twisted by paranoia and xenophobia, and fostering paranoia and xenophobia in our heroes. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > That just doesn’t make sense. Why would they think he could see things their way? Why would they think he was passive and malleable? He kicked whoever’s ass tried to grab him, so their decision to target him must have been based on some other criteria than “will go over to our side.” I’m only making an analogy between island events and events in Eko’s past, because I think it illustrates a subtext. I think that when we’re shown two different groups of people taking children by force, it’s natural to make comparisons. We don’t know for sure that the “others” intended to take Eko. It’s possible he just ran to the defense of the others that were being taken. He kept quiet about the details. Besides, if they did intend to take him, they may have simply made an error in their assessment of him. Remember, we’re talking about a subjective and twisted perception. Put yourself in the position of a paranoid group of people who automatically views other groups as a threat to their security. If you start grabbing people when the group is still in its nascent stages, you can minimize your losses. Who are you going to take into your camp? The people who _can_ be assimilated. The kids are a no-brainer. And adults who seem (to you) to be “good.” If they stay in the other group, from your point of view, either they will become corrupted by the group, or they are in danger there anyway. The “other” islanders have been consistent about what they’re doing. Walt’s fine. The children are better off. It was okay to kill Nathan because he wasn’t a “good person.” He was, from their point of view, one of the _others._ > [@Rubystreak](#): > > And you don’t think that Jack, in his own self-assessment, is good? Or Locke? Of course. Just saying that Eko was enculturated by the group that he was taken into. The group’s actions are (objectively) pretty uncontroversially _bad_ – but from his new POV, he remained good. Nothing wrong with killing Moroccan drug dealers – they’re _other_ – even though they’re much like himself. He could benefit the group he belonged to and enrich himself, so their deaths were perfectly just. From his point of view. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > Based on the sum of their life experiences, Jack is still more “good” than Eko, who has lately had a change of heart about life but was a murderer and a drug dealer before. Jack is also a doctor, which would be “good” for BB’s people, even if they already have one. He’s also a decent, kind person who puts other people’s welfare very high on his list of priorities, even to a fault. Eko is clearly good, good enough to ward off that black cloud, but what about Jack? No argument there – but it’s not really relevant to the “others” and their motivation. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > I think Michael is still wandering around out there and will come back with some weird stories, but I don’t think he’s going to find the Others unless they want to be found. Well, just speculating. It’s possible the Others view a crazy guy with a gun as way too much of a threat to take a chance on, even if he is just motivated by his stolen son. It just seems dramatically necessary that _something_ has to come of his search, besides him wandering sheepishly back into camp, admitting he couldn’t find Walt, and apologizing to Locke for laying him out and locking him and Jack in the vault. Maybe it’ll work out that way, but I think it’s more likely that he’ll find them. They could have a Michael-centric episode that shows it happening, but my money’s on Michael showing up as (duh-duh daaah!) one of _them!_ Of course, if I felt this had a 100% chance of happening, I’d probably lose interest in the show. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/216 "2006-02-17T04:21:20Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Where did you get the idea that they’re planning a commando raid? Did I miss something? I think that he inferred that from the meaningful look from Sayid’s “I remember [yadda yadda yadda] – Do _you_ remember?” speech, and interpreted it as a call to arms. Personally, I think it was just Sayid’s way of justifying his actions to himself. “It’s okay that I did _X_ to _Y_, because _Z_ did _X_ to _W_, and as far as I’m concerned, _Y_ = _Z_.” It’s a [popular tune](http://www.fb.org/news/nr/nr2004/nr0112o.html). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/217 "2006-02-17T04:30:53Z")
> [@](#): > > How will the Others know what they do to BalloonMan? Can the Others really expect to be allowed to get that close (breaking the bargain themselves) and have no response from the Losties? I didn’t get the sense that the Others expect the Losties to be completely passive and not defend themselves. Really? Because that’s pretty much the way I saw the Others’ attitude. Mr Friendly told Jack that this was their island and the Losties had no rights here. They were only going to be allowed to live on their small piece of it at the sufferance of the Others. Friendly specifically warned them that crossing the line would end that sufferance and lead to an attack, but I have to figure that capturing and torturing one of their people (assuming Henry Gale is one of their people) would also be viewed as a cause for war. As for how they’ll know; the Others have definitely shown that they maintain regular contact with their agents and can approach and monitor the Losties without being seen. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/218 "2006-02-17T04:47:57Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Friendly specifically warned them that crossing the line would end that sufferance and lead to an attack, but I have to figure that capturing and torturing one of their people (assuming Henry Gale is one of their people) would also be viewed as a cause for war. Friendly also expressed that they would leave the Losties alone, no? An agreeement which BalloonMan wasn’t keeping when he was caught, right? I don’t think it’s clear that they would declare war based on this, when their guy got himself caught. > [@](#): > > As for how they’ll know; the Others have definitely shown that they maintain regular contact with their agents and can approach and monitor the Losties without being seen. Can they get inside the armory without any of the Losties knowing? Because that’s where he is, and if he stays there, only the people who come and go from the hatch will know about him. None of those people are Others, so I don’t think it’s a given that they’ll know where BalloonMan is and that he was tortured unless someone stupidly lets him out of the hatch. Hey, maybe I’m wrong and the Others will storm the hatch to get BalloonMan out. I don’t know. Based on the info we have, the Others don’t know where BalloonMan is, so I guess we’ll see how that plays out. I also don’t think Sayid is planning a commando raid. He’s way too pragmatic for that, esp. without guns. I agree with **Larry Mudd-** that Sayid was rationalizing what he did, maybe trying to make an ally of Charlie WRT torturing prisoners. He might have to do it again, after all, and if enough people support him, Jack won’t be able to stop him next time. Sayid was coalition building. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/219 "2006-02-17T05:09:36Z")
Something that has been mentioned but not really examined: assuming Uncle Henry is an Other, he can’t be allowed to live. How will that be handled? An act of gut-wrenching necessary violence? By someone not prone to violence up to this point in the story, like Hurley? An “accident”, like Shannon? A fluke, like Arzt? Is there a jaw-dropping good way out of this potentially show-derailing crisis? (Because anything that feels contrived could derail the show.) p.s. Will we see Cindy again? I’ll be in my bunk… ---
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668/220 "2006-02-17T09:13:59Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Friendly also expressed that they would leave the Losties alone, no? An agreeement which BalloonMan wasn’t keeping when he was caught, right? I don’t think it’s clear that they would declare war based on this, when their guy got himself caught. This assumes that BalloonMan is part of BB/Friendly’s group of Others. There was a theory floating around here that there are at least two groups of Others - the BlackBeard (I thought it was BlueBeard), Walt-napping Others and the Ethan/Goodwin (and BalloonMan?) Claire-napping Others. So what BalloonMan does or says may have nothing at all to do with The Hunting Party encounter in the jungle. Makes sense to me that both (if indeed there are two) sets of Others are trying to build up their armies via snatching whatever Losties they can get their hands on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-14-one-of-them/344668.md?page=12)