# Lost 2.17: "Lockdown"
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [March 29, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423 "2006-03-29T16:50:14Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 7
### Author:  [@Improv\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improv_Geek)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/121 "2006-03-30T17:22:45Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#):
>
> Can anyone confirm that this picture is definitely from Entertainment Weekly, was provided by the producers and can be considered canon? (I realize that’s actually three separate questions.) If it is, there’s a lot of new information there, such as the notation that a a particular location is the
>
> known final resting place of Magnus Hanso/Black Rock.
The magazine printed that it was given to them by the producers, they had to do the detective work on their own, but they got the high quality pic from said producers.
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/122 "2006-03-30T17:23:48Z")
> [@Draelin](#):
>
> Around 4:00–mention of “Intranet”. At some point, the hatches were in communication with each other.
Well, we knew that because Michael was able to talk to Waaaaalllllt!
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### Author:  [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/123 "2006-03-30T17:25:32Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#):
>
> Well, we knew that because Michael was able to talk to Waaaaalllllt!
I had been under the impression that they weren’t supposed to talk to each other (from the Orientation film), and therefore may not have known they _could_.
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### Author:  [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/124 "2006-03-30T17:33:28Z")
> [@Cervaise](#):
>
> I have to say, I’m fairly disappointed that Locke fell for his father’s bullshit again. If it were me, I would have ended the episode differently:
>
> Locke gives his dad the bag, and says, “I didn’t do this for the money.” Dad goes to the door and opens it, and instead of Helen, it’s the two thugs. Locke: “Like I said.” Dad turns around in shock. Locke says to the thugs: “Seven hundred thousand, right? It’s all here.” Dad: “How could you?” Locke: “You died. Something changed in me. You no longer matter. You dug your grave, now lie in it.” And he leaves. Then, on the way out to his car, he runs into Helen, who has followed him and is just starting to come up. He tries to explain himself, but she sees Dad come out of the room accompanied by the two thugs, and she confronts Locke about his lie. Locke tries to explain what’s going on, and proposes, but she’s having none of it. So he takes control of his life, rejects his father, and does the right thing, and Helen leaves him anyway.
>
> I think that would have been more satisfying, but maybe that’s just me and my fucked-up relationship with my own father talking. 😉
FWIW, This is what I had hoped/thought as well…
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### Author:  [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/125 "2006-03-30T17:48:38Z")
The shows producers said they want some things to be figured out “between shows”. Giving the viewers this map seems to go right along with that.
From a Lost podcast:
> [@](#):
>
> • CUSE (on what happens to Locke in Lockdown): We shouldn’t be coy; he’s trapped under a blast door in the Hatch.
> • CUSE: The Hanso Foundation web site is down for remodelling and when it comes back up it is going to be awesome. In fact, we are actually – we’re going to kind of let you guys in on a secret – we’re involved in a project which is going to involve the internet that’s going to start in May.
>
> LINDELOF: But you’re going to have to watch the show. And not just the show but what happens in between the show…
>
> CUSE: Between the acts of the show.
>
> LINDELOF: …sort of fairly carefully in order to sort of begin the path on this, what we’re calling an experience.
>
> CUSE: And this internet experience will actually be launched during one of the shows in May and it will be a pathway that will lead to a lot of information about the show that we’re not going to get to on the show. But it’s not just a , sort of, ancillary…
>
> LINDELOF: Ant it’s not behind the scenes stuff, either. It’s like…
>
> CUSE: It’s real mythology.
>
> LINDELOF: It’s, kind of, cool storytelling.
>
> CUSE: Which, hopefully, is going to, in some degree, satisfy the desire for new material on Lost over the summer. I mean, y’know, during that period of time when the show is down before we start the next season, we are actually going to be telling some Lost stories.
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/126 "2006-03-30T18:06:53Z")
> [@Draelin](#):
>
> I had been under the impression that they weren’t supposed to talk to each other (from the Orientation film), and therefore may not have known they _could_.
The impression that I had is that the viewers of the orientation film were meant to believe that the first “incident” was a result of using the computer for communication, and that it was now _verboten_ for fear of a repeat.
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### Author:  [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/127 "2006-03-30T18:06:56Z")
I’ve been spoilering this stuff because some people would rather not see all this spec, and I didn’t want to get yelled at.
> [@ronincyberpunk](#):
>
> The magazine printed that it was given to them by the producers, they had to do the detective work on their own, but they got the high quality pic from said producers.
Yes, they said they worked out the details so we can not take any of that as fact since it was just people like us trying to figure out what everything is and I think there are some cases where someone decides what something looks like and everyone sees the same thing, until later when someone points out that no that’s something else entirely.
[spoiler]
For example, earlier on someone said “The Flame” was Neptune and I could see that it said that and that the drawing was a figure on a seahorse because someone put that idea in my head and so did everyone else. It wasn’t until later when someone said it’s “The Flame” that it became obvious that it is a flame, and that makes more sense because everything else is “The something”.
There’s a part down at the bottom where they have “Fatalities:5” but looking at the original the word that is supposed to be fatalities looks to be only 6 letters with an M as the 3rd letter.[/spoiler]
I think the only difference with what the fans did is EW had a better picture to work with. Are any of these links a pic of the EW pic without their interpretations?
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/128 "2006-03-30T18:24:15Z")
> [@Wile E](#):
>
> I’ve been spoilering this stuff because some people would rather not see all this spec, and I didn’t want to get yelled at.
I don’t get it.
> [@Thread Rules](#):
>
> Speculation based on events in episodes aired up to this point (including teasers) will be unboxed.
Why would you think anyone would get upset at you for following the thread rules? I doubt there is anyone reading this thread that wants to avoid speculation based on stuff that’s already aired, and if there is, they’re in the wrong thread. It’s a bit annoying to have to keep selecting and unselecting to read your posts, as it’s understood that they don’t contain anything remotely spoilerish.
If you _do_ post an actual spoiler, and box it as per the thread rules, _then_ you’ll get what-for when someone who wants to avoid actual spoilers reads it assuming that it’s just more commentary on stuff that’s already aired.
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### Author:  [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/129 "2006-03-30T18:25:18Z")
> [@middleman](#):
>
> A few thoughts:
>
> - Did anyone else figure Locke’s legs were going to be broken by the mobsters?
I was thinking the same thing!
> [@middleman](#):
>
> - If Henry could access the computer by the duct, why did Locke try to pry a blast door open in the first place?
Agreed. Also, if the supply drop activates the lockdown, why would it allow the clock to run out during lockdown?
> [@middleman](#):
>
> - Did anyone make out the little bit of dialogue we heard from the speaker? It was a woman’s voice.
Sounded like a woman counting down to zero.
> [@middleman](#):
>
> \*Why didn’t the balloon bathe the area around the grave in yellow and red?
The whole observation of the balloon was silly. I’d be looking up and down. The lack of rain wouldn’t make me look up though, if I was standing under trees.
> [@middleman](#):
>
> - Anyone else think Helen is in on a bigger con with Daddy Locke? How coincidental that her favorite section of the paper happens to advance Daddy Locke’s scheme?
That I hadn’t thought of. What are you referring to about the paper?
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/130 "2006-03-30T18:29:13Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#):
>
> That I hadn’t thought of. What are you referring to about the paper?
Her reading of the obits. Seemed kind of random to me. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find out that she was in on the con, or that Daddy is really “Sawyer.” Or that Hurley is really a polar bear in disguise, working for Oceanic Airways to try to find out why Hanso is picking on their planes all the time. 😃
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### Author:  [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/131 "2006-03-30T18:34:43Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#):
>
> Whenever any show tries to incorporate poker now because it’s popular it makes me wince because they usually do it so horribly. No exception here.
>
> We’re supposed to believe that Jack can read Sawyer like a book - so what hand do they use as an example of that? Top set vs second set. That’s a hand where both players are going to showdown 98% of the time regardless of any “reads” they have on the other guy, just by the very nature of it. It didn’t prove anything, other than Jack was lucky enough to hit a huge hand when Sawyer hit a slightly less huge hand. And jack was thinking to himself aloud: “do I call, or fold?” - well, generally, with the nuts (I forget the rest of the board, might not have been) you generally want to raise…
>
> Then the big showdown hand at the end? Sawyer calls all in with a hand that can’t beat a pair of 9s. Jack’s reasoning for his motivation? “You’ve got people watching, you can’t let yourself lose” or something like that. Well, gee… he calls with a hand that can’t possibly win, losing everything, in order “not to lose” - yeah, makes sense.
Not only that, they used the stupid, “walk up and know what everyone is holding without seeing any of the action.”
AND dumbest of all. . .
one guy’s stake was a plentiful, renewable resource while the other guy put up a scarce, valuable commodity.
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### Author:  [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/132 "2006-03-30T18:49:12Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#):
>
> I don’t get it. Why would you think anyone would get upset at you for following the thread rules? I doubt there is anyone reading this thread that wants to avoid speculation based on stuff that’s already aired, and if there is, they’re in the wrong thread. It’s a bit annoying to have to keep selecting and unselecting to read your posts, as it’s understood that they don’t contain anything remotely spoilerish.
>
> If you _do_ post an actual spoiler, and box it as per the thread rules, _then_ you’ll get what-for when someone who wants to avoid actual spoilers reads it assuming that it’s just more commentary on stuff that’s already aired.
_shrugs_ It seemed better to err on the side of caution. Some people consider stuff that requires extra research and investigation and lots of speculation on stuff that aired to be spoilerish. Since other people continued to spoiler these things I figured that was the right thing to do.
If someone does read a spoiler box and finds an actual spoiler they didn’t want to see, I don’t think they have any reason to be upset about it.
Most of these sites with screencaps have reached their bandwidth limits.
By the way, one of the latin translations mentioned earlier was translated to this elsewhere:
Aegrescit medendo - The disease worsens with the treatment. The remedy is worse than the disease.
I don’t see why Helen would be part of a long con unless Locke’s dad hired her just to keep Locke away from him (something I considered when she first showed up). After his father left for good then there would be no reason for her to stick around. I don’t see why they would have been conning Locke since he didn’t have any money to take and he already had his kidney.
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### Author:  [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/133 "2006-03-30T18:49:48Z")
> [@Omniscient](#):
>
> I’m _sooo_ stealing half the credit for [that one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7108884&postcount=35).
NOOO!! IT’S ALL [MINE!!!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7109472&postcount=103)
In reality, I’m happy to share. But, as I said above, it is my only lasting contribution so far.
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### Author:  [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/134 "2006-03-30T18:58:34Z")
> [@vaderspal](#):
>
> If Cerberus is the smoke-monster, then what is the TCM? I suspect they are separate but related forces.
I don’t know why you would say that. It was pretty clear in the Eko-centric episode that they were one and the same.
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### Author:  [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/135 "2006-03-30T19:04:26Z")
> [@Trunk](#):
>
> Not only that, they used the stupid, “walk up and know what everyone is holding without seeing any of the action.”
>
> AND dumbest of all. . .
>
> one guy’s stake was a plentiful, renewable resource while the other guy put up a scarce, valuable commodity.
Except that what Sawyer was really putting up was his “face” as in, he lost face to Jack and needed to get it back in front of his woman, Kate. He was betting emotionally, not rationally. Jack made the stakes, Sawyer knew he wouldn’t play for anything less, and to Sawyer playing (and beating) Jack was more important than the medicine.
Get a ruler, indeed!
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### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/136 "2006-03-30T19:06:29Z")
> [@WhyNot](#):
>
> Except that what Sawyer was really putting up was his “face” as in, he lost face to Jack and needed to get it back in front of his woman, Kate. He was betting emotionally, not rationally. Jack made the stakes, Sawyer knew he wouldn’t play for anything less, and to Sawyer playing (and beating) Jack was more important than the medicine.
>
> Get a ruler, indeed!
Apart from that, to counter an observation from above, Sawyer wasn’t going to lose face by losing at poker…he was going to lose face by backing down from Jack.
-Joe
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### Author:  [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/137 "2006-03-30T19:25:34Z")
> [@Trunk](#):
>
> one guy’s stake was a plentiful, renewable resource while the other guy put up a scarce, valuable commodity.
True, although at that point I think Sawyer was not _really_ playing for fruit so much as he was playing for pride… ego…
He wasn’t happy about getting his ass handed to him in the few hands Jack played, and he wanted another shot at salvaging his ego. I don’t think he really cared so much about the fruit or the medicine.
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### Author:  [@Canadia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadia)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/138 "2006-03-30T19:26:23Z")
> [@vaderspal](#):
>
> I don’t know how to do a screen-cap, but I’m almost certain we saw “the car” in this episode. It was parked in a driveway behind Anthony Cooper’s silver car outside of Locke’s house.
>
> What do I win?
I thought I got all the Lost references, but I don’t get this one. Anyone?
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### Author:  [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/139 "2006-03-30T19:26:42Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#):
>
> Agreed. Also, if the supply drop activates the lockdown, why would it allow the clock to run out during lockdown?
The woman’s voice went on for quite a while before the countdown. Presumably, if everything had been working as planned, there would have been enough time for the hatch’s inhabitants to get to the computer room before the blast doors fell.
---
### Author:  [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-17-lockdown/350423/140 "2006-03-30T19:40:23Z")
> [@Canadia](#):
>
> I thought I got all the Lost references, but I don’t get this one. Anyone?
There’s this one car that keeps reappearing in a lot of episodes. We’re not sure whether it actually means anything – i.e., if it’s supposed to be the exact same car being driven by the exact same people. Mostly it looks like ABC only has one “generic” stunt car, and they keep re-using it. But, you never know with these people.
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