# Lost 2.23: "Live Together, Die Alone" \[Season Finale\] Open Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 24, 2006, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024 "2006-05-24T13:20:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/201 "2006-05-25T14:42:14Z")
I really enjoyed the episode - would have been better if Michael had been killed off, but, oh well. Other observations: -only thing that can explain Charlie’s cluelessness when he returned to camp is if he is suffering a concussion or temporary loss of memory. Otherwise he should have been running to the camp yelling “The hatch blew up! Locke and Eko are dead” -Desmond just may be my favorite character. so tragic about him and his girl. -Who would trust Jack to have a plan? -Writers really need to explain the crazy French woman better. -In addition to the TV show “The Prisoner”, “Lost” begins to remind me of the book Life of Pi; same surrealism, same sort of setting, wild animals. PS - I’m a newbie to the show this season & am really enjoying these threads. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/202 "2006-05-25T14:42:55Z")
There were two guys. One was Scott and one was Steve. Nobody on the island can ever keep straight which was which. Anyhow, Scott/Steve was helping keep watch on the beach after Claire escaped. Ethan surprised him and beat him to death. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/203 "2006-05-25T14:43:12Z")
I have this odd recollection that Desmond’s girlfriend’s dad is presented, somewhere in the episode, in some way, as and “industrialist” and a “philanthropist.” Am I manufacturing this memory somehow? Assuming not: That dude is Hanso (life extension project anyone?) or one of Hanso’s people. Libby works for this fella. She’s some kind of “secret agent” type. She was told to give Desmond a rigged boat–one that would lead him to the Island. She was told to keep an eye on Hurley at the asylum, for reasons related to the fact that the Hanso people had _plans_ for him. Hurley’s “Dave” was real–the whole asylum was really some kind of pretence–and is in fact either Libby’s husband or significant other of some sort, which is why the name she thought of for her “dead husband” backstory with Desmond was “David.” Don’t know if her surviving the crash was somehow arranged for or not. Desmond’s girlfriend knows some or all of what her dad’s up to, and has secretly hired her own people to help find Desmond. And that’s my theory. Assuming I’m not manufacturing the “Industrialist and Philanthropist” detail. -Kris ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/204 "2006-05-25T14:44:31Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > There were two guys. One was Scott and one was Steve. Nobody on the island can ever keep straight which was which. Anyhow, Scott/Steve was helping keep watch on the beach after Claire escaped. Ethan surprised him and beat him to death. Geez, I don’t remember this at all. Was it first season? Which episode? -Kris ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/205 "2006-05-25T14:48:53Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > So, I’m left wondering…what was the point of the beard in the first place? 😕 I think the beard was supposed to be part of a sort of “archetype” his character was supposed to fit. It was part of the mind-game the Others are playing on the losties. The guy needs to wear the beard so the losties will react to him in particular ways which are predictable to the Others. Losing the beard pretence loses the Others a bit of control over the situation. That’s may take anyway, on the whole “wearing costumes” thing. It’s not just misinformation, its got further purposes. -Kris ---
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/206 "2006-05-25T14:52:57Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Yeah, that’s what I was thinking, too. Even if the Others had some good reason to kidnap the crash survivors, what possible justification could Ethan have had to beat Scott to death? (Or was it Steve?) Also, Goodwin snapping the neck of one of the unfortunate tailies. > [@lachesis](#): > > 2b) and if that is, indeed, the case, and Libby meets Desmond on the East Coast, i start to wonder: did we ever get any clues as to where Hurley lived? unless Libby took to traveling and flipped out/went into mega-depression over lost hubby somewhere else in the U.S., that implies that Hurley also lived on the East Coast (since they wound up in the same mental health facility and all). Hurley lived in L.A. I’m pretty sure the institution was there, too. Here’s my WAG about Libby: she is (er, was) part of Hanso/Dharma. She is a therapist, and took a job with them that allows her to “deep cover” in the asylum to suss out good candidates for whatever they’re doing. Hurley was one of her prize subjects, and so somehow she engineered both of them getting onto Flight 815. Otherwise, why would she continue lying-by-omission to Hurley about how he recognized her? On preview, I see that **Frylock** beat me to this, dammit dammit! 😉 The thing I don’t get now, though, is that if Desmond brought down Flight 815 by accident, due to neglecting the button, how did Hanso/Dharma know that all these ‘special’ people should be on that particular flight? Are we right back to wondering whether it’s just a coincidence, or if there was something deliberate about them all being there? If it was deliberate, then how did Dharma force Desmond’s neglect of the button at precisely the right time? What would they have done if flight 815 had made it to L.A.? Or maybe they knew in advance, like Claire’s psychic did, that flight 815 was doomed to crash, so they got as many people on it as they could manage. I’d say that pushes the limits of credibility, but what about this show doesn’t? > [@Big G](#): > > Didn’t we see Kelvin talking to Ethan in the medical hatch during Claire’s flashback? S o that would mean that he didn’t die. Did he get recruited into the Others or was all that with Desmond some sort of ruse? Am I remembering Claire’s flashback correctly? I think you’re thinking of Zeke, _sans_ beard. He looks kind of like Kelvin. I could be remembering it wrong too, though. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/207 "2006-05-25T14:54:09Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > The “Russkies” were speaking Spanish, according to my Spanish-speaking wife. Weird. I didn’t think a native spanish speaker could mistake Portuguese for Spanish. They can read each others’ newspapers to a large extent, but I had always heard there was no chance of mistaking spoken Portuguese for spoken Spanish. I now have a counterexample to that claim, which is always fun. (Reportedly its the same with Spanish and Italian, btw.) -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/208 "2006-05-25T14:55:01Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I have this odd recollection that Desmond’s girlfriend’s dad is presented, somewhere in the episode, in some way, as and “industrialist” and a “philanthropist.” Wasn’t that on the back of the race pamphlet that Desmond had? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/209 "2006-05-25T14:56:22Z")
> [@AerynSun](#): > > Did anyone else have an \*Arrested Development \* flashback when Locke admitted he was wrong? I practically heard him say, “I’ve made a huge mistake.” 🙂 My wife and I both said “I’ve made a huge mistake.” twice in this episode. We also said it when Sayid opened the door in the “camp” an realised it’s all fake. He looks just past the camera…“I’ve made a huge mistake.” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/210 "2006-05-25T14:57:58Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > My wife and I both said “I’ve made a huge mistake.” twice in this episode. > > We also said it when Sayid opened the door in the “camp” an realised it’s all fake. > > He looks just past the camera…“I’ve made a huge mistake.” Is it possible to successfully describe the gag from AD, or would I just have had to have “been there”? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/211 "2006-05-25T15:00:27Z")
So…we know what (probably) brought down the plane. Two questions… First, how did anyone survive? “Cartwheeling through the jungle” and lots of people walk away with minimal damage? Jack survives the crash, he’s in the jungle, he’s not in his seat, and he’s unhurt? Second, and I’m assuming this is just a bit of bad science, if you’ve got an electromagnet that can tear a plane apart from 8 miles up and unknown miles horizontally, isn’t it likely that Desmond’s fillings would have been ripped out of his head and through the back of his skull? Last I remember, magnetism is a very powerful but short-ranged force. For it to reach a long distance the power up close would have to be immense. I’m talking Bluebeard’s boat being dragged out of the water and tearing a path through the jungle, here. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/212 "2006-05-25T15:06:52Z")
Ah, but it **isn’t** an electromagnet. It’s an “electromagnetic anomaly!” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/213 "2006-05-25T15:10:35Z")
> [@vaderspal](#): > > The thing I don’t get now, though, is that if Desmond brought down Flight 815 by accident, due to neglecting the button, how did Hanso/Dharma know that all these ‘special’ people should be on that particular flight? Are we right back to wondering whether it’s just a coincidence, or if there was something deliberate about them all being there? This is a big deal. Desmond accidentally crashed the plane which means that the Others didn’t plan for the passengers of flight 815 to be on the island, and that explains the hostility. (But how did they know the names of all the passengers? Well, we can assume that the real names were part of the flight manifest, so possibly they got that from the airline.) But part of the Hanso experiments involve luck, which I think is the reason that these people were on the plane and there were so many links among them. I think the Others are not part of the main foundation, but are either an offshoot or enemies or former subjects of the experiments. The food drop was also a significant event, in that it proved that some activity with the foundation continues in the rest of the world. (And it also suggests that the rest of the world is still there. One earlier theory was that the island was outside the world, or everything else had been destroyed.) ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/214 "2006-05-25T15:12:59Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Geez, I don’t remember this at all. Was it first season? Which episode? I think it was [Outlaws](http://www.tv.com/lost/outlaws/episode/392051/summary.html) or the one before it. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/215 "2006-05-25T15:13:27Z")
Re: Walt… I’m under the impression that Walt’s ‘unique qualities’ were more than the Others had bargained for, so while he was initially sought out by them as an asset, once they had him, he turned out to be a potential liability…hence the deal with Michael to release them on their merry way. This impression comes from the glimpses we’ve had of Walt’s ‘unique qualities’, the questions asked of Michael when he was a prisoner in the Other’s hut-camp (“Has he ever appeared in places where he wasn’t expected?” or something to that effect), and some of the dialogue from NotHentry last night. Re: Desmond’s coincidental lapse on the button on 9/22…(admittedly weak possibility) If _The Swan_ was beeing monitored by _The Pearl_ at the time, could Kalvin have been provided intell on Desmond’s State of mind that day? Knowing that he was trying to sneak and follow him? If Dharma wanted that flight to crash that day, they could’ve been able to manipulate him into leaving the hatch somehow, even if he hadn’t decided to do so on his own. Seems like it wouldn’t take much to distract someone for 108 minutes with the Great Outdoors if he’d been locked in a cage underground for 2 years. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/216 "2006-05-25T15:23:46Z")
> [@vaderspal](#): > > I think you’re thinking of Zeke, _sans_ beard. He looks kind of like Kelvin. I could be remembering it wrong too, though. I think you’re right about this. Kelvin = Zeke was my first reaction as well, but it took me a while to remember exactly where I’d seen him before. They do look sort of similar. > [@Omniscient](#): > > You know, I think the biggest question right now is why the Others felt Walt was such a windfall for them. What about him was so valuable? I actually didn’t get the impression Walt was extremely valuable to them. The exact words (okay, give or take a couple) Henry used were “We got more than we bargained for with Walt”. That sort of phrasing doesn’t necessarily mean a _good_ thing. Remember, Miss Clue (Klugh?) was intent on asking Michael about Walt’s ability to appear somewhere he shouldn’t be, and she acted as if this wasn’t something she had really expected to encounter. My WAG is that Walt’s abilities proved too much for the Others to handle, and although they may not want to let him go, it’s not a terrible loss on their part. Especially since now they have three new subjects. ---
**Author:** ![McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDeath_the_Mad)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/217 "2006-05-25T15:24:01Z")
A couple of thoughts: Did anyone else think that when Desmond turned the key, nothing would happen? Is that how you make Blue Light ink, with dish detergent? Since “The Swan” hatch is gone now, who else thinks that the electromagnetic anomaly’s won’t exist. So maybe compasses will work now? Maybe Michael will make it? The guys in the outpost were definitely speaking Portuguese according to my closed captioning. They also said something about they were glad they didn’t miss this one, implying that they have missed earlier EM events. Also these guys were some place cold and snowy, and it was light outside. When they called Desmond’s girlfriend penny, she was sleeping. What does that tell us about time zones? I thought those guys were going to dial the phone with the numbers as well! Anyone else notice Desmond was drinking wine with the Dharma logo on it? Pretty cool episode! MtM ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/218 "2006-05-25T15:24:18Z")
A couple of minor points. The statue had 4 toes. Which means 8 toes total. Assuming four fingers per hand, that’s 16 digits total. That’s half the numbers. I saw the statue and went “They’ve crashed on Atlantis”! Though I suppose it should be Lemuria, since they’re in the Pacific. Walt left without Vincent? And, did not-Henry says something to Michael like “Walt decided to join us”? Does Michael really expect to be rescued? He gets picked up and says “Yeah, we’re the only survivors from flight 815, but we can’t tell you where we’ve been for the past two months or where this boat came from. Sorry.” Yeah, that’ll work… Why did the Others (or Dharmas or whoever-they-ares) want Hurley along if they just wanted him to go back to the beach and tell the survivors to stay away? Is Hurley really the best person to find his way back across the island all alone? Is it September yet? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cbawlmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cbawlmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cbawlmer)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/219 "2006-05-25T15:25:03Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Is it possible to successfully describe the gag from AD, or would I just have had to have “been there”? > > -FrL- It was a running gag on the show. A character would do something that turned out to be a spectacularly poor decision and when they realized it, they’d stop and say, “I’ve made a huge mistake.” Maybe you did kinda have to be there. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/220 "2006-05-25T15:25:42Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Ah, but it **isn’t** an electromagnet. It’s an “electromagnetic anomaly!” (displays middle finger in **silenus** ’s direction) -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024.md?page=12)