# Lost 2.23: "Live Together, Die Alone" \[Season Finale\] Open Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 24, 2006, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024 "2006-05-24T13:20:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/21 "2006-05-24T18:56:16Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Yep, and it seemed like such an odd thing to say. There are several plane break-up flashback scenes, but the best one to hear TCM noises is the very last one-- the one where we see Kate and the Marshal and we learn that Kate was handcuffed. > > Like I said, my hit rate on predictions is not good, but this one kind of makes sense. I envision the “black smoke” TCM shooting up from the island, enveloping the plane and probably doing some of its mind reading tricks while it’s at it (like the scene we saw when Eko stared it down). That would explain how The Island seems to know so much about everyone. And there was that video clip that showed what looked like the smoke whipping around the downed engine. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/22 "2006-05-24T19:15:07Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > And there was that video clip that showed what looked like the smoke whipping around the downed engine. I was just about to reply about that. I saw the clip on the internet when it was discovered last season, so I skeptically brought up the pilot episode on my TiVo, and sure enough, a flying black cloudy-rectangle swoops down from the air and intersects with the turbine. which immediately explodes after the encounter. T’was there all along. So it’s not much of a leap to suspect that it as the TCM that brought down the plane. But, as Loach said… don’t hold yer breath for the WHY. ---
**Author:** ![Stereo\_Isomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Stereo\_Isomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stereo_Isomer)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/23 "2006-05-24T19:18:35Z")
In case those who are speculating that the entire story might be someone’s dream aren’t kidding, Damon Lindelof explicitly denied that in an [interview:](http://losttv-forum.com/bonus/interview.htm) > [@](#): > > LOST-TV: you and JJ have denied the purgatory one. Are there others that stick in your mind that are NOT the answer to the mystery/ > DAMON: What mystery? > LOST-TV: the mystery of the island. The infamous “they’re dead an in purgatory" > LOST-TV: All the fans have a theory: it’s the Island of Dr. Moreau, it’s an experiment. Any of these theories come to mind which NOT the answer are – but which kind of make you think, “Wow, that was cool.” > DAMON: I think it’s really interesting that people think there is ONE definitive answer. > DAMON: Here’s something that it is NOT… > DAMON: This is not a fictional reality that is playing out in someone’s brain. > LOST-TV: well thank goodness for that. > DAMON: Like I’ve heard that they’re all different personalities inside Locke, or something. > LOST-TV: “Emily, I just had the weirdest dream I was an innkeeper in Vermont” > DAMON: To this I say, “Yes. I saw ‘Identity,’ too. And I did not like it.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/24 "2006-05-24T19:33:24Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I was just about to reply about that. I saw the clip on the internet when it was discovered last season, so I skeptically brought up the pilot episode on my TiVo, and sure enough, a flying black cloudy-rectangle swoops down from the air and intersects with the turbine. which immediately explodes after the encounter. T’was there all along. No, that was clearly a piece of metal, not a cloud of black smoke. I watched it several times in slo-mo on a HiDef TV. **Stereo** : You should put interviews like that in spoiler boxes. Some people are very sensitive about not wanting to be exposed to comments by the writers. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/25 "2006-05-24T19:35:31Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Meanwhile, Eko and Locke come to blows… If that part is true, I bet it won’t last very long. It’d be like Tyson vs. Screech. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/26 "2006-05-24T19:50:32Z")
> [@BiblioCat](#): > > Dammit, I hit ‘submit’ too soon. > Last week I was driving to work and I saw a car with a Swan Hatch sticker on it. The pentagon shape thing, with the maze-y lines around it and the swan in the middle. > Anyone know if someone’s selling them or maybe she made it herself? Here’s a link to the [“official”](http://abctvstore.shopthescene.com/index.php?v=abclstfan) Lost gear, but [Cafe Press](http://www.cafepress.com/cp/search/search.aspx?m=&q=Lost&sort=by_score_desc&pg=1&fpt=fXBa __DB___ CXDc_Pz-X_7O__Dc&c=1&rpp=60&CMP=KNC-G-EN-MOV&ovchn=GGL&ovcpn=Movies+and+Television+Basic&ovcrn=sr2EN1go36982sb6598pi15ai1839+Lost+bumper+sticker&ovtac=PPC&SR=sr2EN1go36982sb6598pi15ai1839) appears to have 43 pages of various flotsam and jetsam. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/27 "2006-05-24T21:56:54Z")
Want a sneak peek at tonight’s episode? [Click here.](http://www.thetailsection.com/Lost_223_LiveTogetherDieAlone_sneakpeek.mpg) Nothing I’d really call a spoiler in it. It’s just a two minute clip that gives a little taste of what we’re in for tonight. Should hold you over for the next few hours. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/28 "2006-05-24T22:54:49Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > No, that was clearly a piece of metal, not a cloud of black smoke. I watched it several times in slo-mo on a HiDef TV. Well, it’s not HiDef, but it’s the best I can do on the net… [BOOM](http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/6141/lostturbineenhanced0kf8lh.gif) Reasons I think it’s (clearly) not a piece of metal: 1. If it’s shrapnel from the explosion, that makes no sense, since it’s well after the plane crash, and before the turbine blows. 2. it swoops down, then up, in a perfect parabola (but in the opposite direction of gravity). Enforcing the idea that it’s a controlled entity. 3. I think it’s clear that the “Security System” (aka TCM) is amorphous and can take any form, even a more regular shape. In fact, it makes more sense that it flattens out like a flying carpet when it’s doing acrobatics. 4. It hits the turbine at the precise moment of the Bang. 5. Metal just don’t move like that. And it’s a nice touch that I can totally see the writer’s working in to the pilot. A wink to the audience that they know where this is headed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/29 "2006-05-24T22:59:13Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Well, it’s not HiDef, but it’s the best I can do on the net… > > [BOOM](http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/6141/lostturbineenhanced0kf8lh.gif) > > Reasons I think it’s (clearly) not a piece of metal: I’m pretty sure we had this discussion before (not you and me, necessarily, but “we” as in another “Lost” thread), and the concensus was that it was just a not-so-good special effect, and not the Black Smoke TCM. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/30 "2006-05-24T23:08:53Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I’m pretty sure we had this discussion before (not you and me, necessarily, but “we” as in another “Lost” thread), and the concensus was that it was just a not-so-good special effect, and not the Black Smoke TCM. D’aaallllright. I know it was digging up old controversy, but it felt relevant considering the alleged explanation for the plane crash tonight. i still think it was the TCM. so there! ---
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/31 "2006-05-24T23:15:34Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I’m pretty sure we had this discussion before (not you and me, necessarily, but “we” as in another “Lost” thread), and the concensus was that it was just a not-so-good special effect, and not the Black Smoke TCM. …and wasn’t the turbine explosion (shown in the clip) caused by “survivor 52” getting sucked into it? I’m too lazy to dig out the pilot now & confirm, but I thought there was only one running turbine post-crash, and that was it. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/32 "2006-05-24T23:24:02Z")
> [@vaderspal](#): > > …and wasn’t the turbine explosion (shown in the clip) caused by “survivor 52” getting sucked into it? I’m too lazy to dig out the pilot now & confirm, but I thought there was only one running turbine post-crash, and that was it. That was another turbine. I think this one happened early on. But my memory is fading as well. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/33 "2006-05-24T23:31:02Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > D’aaallllright. I know it was digging up old controversy, but it felt relevant considering the alleged explanation for the plane crash tonight. Maybe we’ll find out tonight! Hey, did anyone ever figure out if Desmond said he was on a catamaran? Even if he did, I still that’ll be him on the sailboat, but I’m just curious. I thought he said he was on a cat, too. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/34 "2006-05-24T23:31:19Z")
> [@vaderspal](#): > > …and wasn’t the turbine explosion (shown in the clip) caused by “survivor 52” getting sucked into it? I’m too lazy to dig out the pilot now & confirm, but I thought there was only one running turbine post-crash, and that was it. Yes – that was caused when the guy got sucked into it. I also say it’s just a piece of debris. The whole wreck scene had some random debris (although most pieces not that big) appearing to fly around in the background – presumably getting sucked around the air by the still running engine turbine? But that explosion was definitely when the guy got sucked into the engine. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/35 "2006-05-24T23:36:27Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Hey, did anyone ever figure out if Desmond said he was on a catamaran? Even if he did, I still that’ll be him on the sailboat, but I’m just curious. I thought he said he was on a cat, too. Last week, when this idea was mentioned, I went back to look at the Desmond scene when he talked about how he got there (and finished with “THE END!”) – and he only said he was in a solo race around the world, and his “boat crashed into the reef”. He didn’t say what type – at least not in that scene. And I don’t think there was any other scene where he talked about his boat (or else I don’t remember one). ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/36 "2006-05-24T23:36:35Z")
I’m just forcing myself to keep my eyes off this thread for the time being. I really want to know what’s up with those message tubes, never mind the boat. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/37 "2006-05-24T23:40:49Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Hey, did anyone ever figure out if Desmond said he was on a catamaran? Even if he did, I still that’ll be him on the sailboat, but I’m just curious. I thought he said he was on a cat, too. I thought he said he was on a boat. Did he say catamaran? I can’t remember. I don’t think it’s Desmond on the sailboat we saw coming in at the end last week. I don’t know _who’s_ on it, but it’s not Desmond. JMO, of course. Desmond wanted to leave, and he ran off into the jungle. I know we saw him in the previews, and I think he’s been hiding and watching them. I think he’ll come out of hiding and want to get on the boat to leave the island. He’ll fight Michael for the boat, or ask to get on it with him. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/38 "2006-05-24T23:44:17Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > I really want to know what’s up with those message tubes, never mind the boat. Oh, yeah this, too. The pneumatic message tubes. Locke sent his map through one. Where did it go? OT: I’ll never look at those things the same way after seeing the “Donny” episode of _Just Shoot Me_ with David Cross as Elliott’s supposedly-disabled brother. Jack kept telling him they were ‘magic’ or worked by magnets and Donny knew he was wrong, but couldn’t correct him. ---
**Author:** ![ladybug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/46a35a/32.png) [@ladybug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladybug)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/39 "2006-05-24T23:48:15Z")
> [@Wile E](#): > > I recently saw the second Matrix film and Harold was in that. He looks so much nicer with the long dreads (also in _DeCaprio and Juliet_) and when he isn’t screaming “WAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLTTTTTTTT!!!” :smack: I just realized that it’s the same actor playing both parts. How could I have missed that? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/40 "2006-05-24T23:49:24Z")
Man, I love [youtube.com](http://youtube.com) I just watched the first [part](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvEX-Qlg4ug&search=lost%20pilot) of the pilot for the first time since it aired… and I stand corrected. There is a lot of dark lightweight debris flying around. That’s probably what it was. AND it is the same turbine that blows up when the dood gets sucked in, just a different angle. I feel ashamed for being so easily sucked in by internet folklore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024.md?page=3)