# Lost 2.23: "Live Together, Die Alone" \[Season Finale\] Open Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 24, 2006, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024 "2006-05-24T13:20:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2006, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/401 "2006-05-30T15:35:20Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > No and no. Desmond only _thinks_ he is responsible for crashing the plane because of the timing of the crash coinciding with the system failure. What he’s not taking into consideration, and what **vaderspal** alluded to in a previous post, is that the plane was destined for that island anyway, otherwise it wouldn’t have veered so far off course (a thousand miles, or “thousands of miles”, I can’t recall which) in the first place. And the system failure couldn’t have drawn the plane off course just before crashing it, due to the vast distance it would’ve had to have covered in such a short time, which surely would’ve been felt by the passengers and/or flight crew had they been zooming at light speed through the sky. Which brings us to this theory. . . This theory doesn’t entirely hold up, when you consider that if the system was in failure mode for over an hour, thereby having enough time elapse to draw the plane that far off course towards the island in order for it to have been nearby enough to crash there, then the hatch would’ve been destroyed by the time Desmond got back to it to enter the code, seeing as how it only took moments (perhaps minutes, but certainly not an entire hour or more) for the hatch to implode during _this_ system failure. The radio dying, them going off-course towards the island and crashing there are all tied together and intentional. It’s the logistics that haven’t yet been neatly explained, in spite of a couple of the players _thinking_ they’ve figured it out. As soon as the show ended, I rolled my eyes in disgust. This whole friggin’ thing was nothing more than an elaborate ruse by the father to keep the undesireable boyfriend away from the daughter? What a lame premise for a show this complex and, up to this point, interesting. I know there’s got to be something more to it, since he only brought Desmond to the island 3 years ago, and the “research” there has been going on for at least 16 years. But if we don’t get a better explanation within the first episode or two next season, I give up, because that’s just, well, lame. Got back from vacation and watched the finale last night… after 8 pages, I have no better rationale than what I thought after the show: this whole thing was a test of Desmond’s courage. Once he got the courage (to turn the key) he would be “found”… sigh… long wait for Season 3… ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2006, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/402 "2006-05-30T15:53:47Z")
I’m sure someone else has come up with this theory too but… What is the “Others” are just another experimental group from another hatch? Swan Hatch is a group of people that were told the outside world was toxic, and they had to push a button every 108 minutes. Pearl Hatch is a group that was told to watch another group on monitors and log everything they did. What if Thatch Hatch is a group of folks who were there to do an experiment with living “naturally” (or surviving with the clothes on their backs), and had contact with Hanso along the way (presumeably, so did Swan and Pearl)…and when Hanso observed the plane crash, or even CFL’s group, Hanso decided “oh, new game! Ok Thatch Hatch people, now everyone you find is your enemy. Except children. Yeah that’s it uhm…collect children at all costs. Everyone else is a raving lunatic and they must be eradicated. Got it?” The “Others” probably are scared of Hanso by this point - they probably signed up for a 2-year stint and it’s now been over 16 years - or are brainwashed, and just do as Hanso says. So the Others aren’t quite evil, and the Losties aren’t quite evil. But Hanso is manipulating both groups to think so…and writing it all down. ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2006, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/403 "2006-05-30T23:19:38Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > At the end of the finale, I turned to the guy who was watching it with me and proposed pretty much that exact idea: What if this is, on some level, an insiders’ view of how and why bad guys are bad guys? The Losties don’t trust one another, they don’t talk to one another, or when they do they lie; they scheme and deceive behind one anothers’ backs; they’ve gotten several of themselves killed; they’ve destroyed the hatch through sheer monkeylike ignorance; they’re self-absorbed and incurious to the point of dysfunctionality; their leadership is horrible, fighting with itself over who gets to bed the fertile female; ad nauseum. > > I mean, they’ve got themselves a mightily popular show, and viewers are so hooked that the network is over a figurative barrel with respect to putting pressure on the showrunners. At this point, the creators have probably a full season to do whatever the hell they want with the story before ratings suffer and the showrunners lose their leverage. Why not try something wild like turning the tables on the audience and revealing our “heroes” as the jackass antagonists of the piece? My head is starting to hurt with all these theories and scientific explanations. My one hope for next season is that Michael Emerson gets a wildly expanded role. He’s absolutely chilling. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/404 "2006-05-31T06:16:37Z")
> [@medstar](#): > > My head is starting to hurt with all these theories and scientific explanations. Oh, I’m not done yet. Wait until I tell you how mitochondrial DNA, season two of _WKRP in Cincinnati_, and the Cretaceous period fits into it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Alias](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@Alias](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alias)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/405 "2006-05-31T13:24:38Z")
> [@medstar](#): > > My one hope for next season is that Michael Emerson gets a wildly expanded role. He’s absolutely chilling. I agree! He’s got that Hannibal Lecter vibe that gives me the creeps. I just watched a Law and Order SVU episode the other day where he was a child molester. CREEEEEEEEEPY. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/406 "2006-05-31T16:35:27Z")
I watched the finale with Birdgirl last night for the second time & we noticed something I don’t think has been mentioned yet: When the Losties are getting ambushed out in the jungle by those pesky whispering Others, we both _distinctively_ heard them whisper “Elizabeth.” Libby might be dead, but she’s not gone. Other folks here have guessed she might be connected to the project & this little tidbit we noticed last night sort of pushed me over the edge. We’ve got Libby in the asylum with Hurley & giving Desmond the boat & now this…too bad there isn’t a hell of a lot more for me to say on this, as I’d just be stabbing in the dark. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/407 "2006-05-31T18:05:25Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#): > > I watched the finale with Birdgirl last night for the second time & we noticed something I don’t think has been mentioned yet: > > When the Losties are getting ambushed out in the jungle by those pesky whispering Others, we both _distinctively_ heard them whisper “Elizabeth.” Libby might be dead, but she’s not gone. Other folks here have guessed she might be connected to the project & this little tidbit we noticed last night sort of pushed me over the edge. We’ve got Libby in the asylum with Hurley & giving Desmond the boat & now this…too bad there isn’t a hell of a lot more for me to say on this, as I’d just be stabbing in the dark. Here’s a [site](http://www.patriotresource.com/lost/insights/whispers.html) where some of the jungle whispers have been decyphered. It looks like they’re up to episode 14 of season 2. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/408 "2006-05-31T18:51:15Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > Here’s a [site](http://www.patriotresource.com/lost/insights/whispers.html) where some of the jungle whispers have been decyphered. > > It looks like they’re up to episode 14 of season 2. And it looks like most of it is random crap. At least from the parts I read. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/409 "2006-05-31T19:35:20Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > At the end of the finale, I turned to the guy who was watching it with me and proposed pretty much that exact idea: What if this is, on some level, an insiders’ view of how and why bad guys are bad guys? The Losties don’t trust one another, they don’t talk to one another, or when they do they lie; they scheme and deceive behind one anothers’ backs; they’ve gotten several of themselves killed; they’ve destroyed the hatch through sheer monkeylike ignorance; they’re self-absorbed and incurious to the point of dysfunctionality; their leadership is horrible, fighting with itself over who gets to bed the fertile female; ad nauseum. > > I mean, they’ve got themselves a mightily popular show, and viewers are so hooked that the network is over a figurative barrel with respect to putting pressure on the showrunners. At this point, the creators have probably a full season to do whatever the hell they want with the story before ratings suffer and the showrunners lose their leverage. Why not try something wild like turning the tables on the audience and revealing our “heroes” as the jackass antagonists of the piece? Wow, kind of like how Seinfeld ended it’s run. We have the main characters in court defending themselves from being self-centered jerks who screwed over a lot of people. They all end up being put in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/410 "2006-05-31T22:03:19Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Wow, kind of like how Seinfeld ended it’s run. I’m the only person I know who enjoyed Seinfeld’s ending tremendously and thought it was brilliant. Wonder if that has anything to do with why I thought similar things about Lost. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2006, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/411 "2006-06-01T00:08:44Z")
I noticed the whispers of Elizabeth, I just keep forgetting to mention it. One thing I have been looking for is a good screen cap of the HurleyBird. The caps I found of that scene just have a big blur where the bird should be. Has anyone seen any good screen caps anywhere or is it just a big blur? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2006, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/412 "2006-06-01T01:43:50Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Oh, I’m not done yet. Wait until I tell you how mitochondrial DNA, season two of _WKRP in Cincinnati_, and the Cretaceous period fits into it. 😉 FTR, turkeys don’t fly. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2006, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/413 "2006-06-01T02:47:26Z")
> [@Wile E](#): > > I noticed the whispers of Elizabeth, I just keep forgetting to mention it. > One thing I have been looking for is a good screen cap of the HurleyBird. The caps I found of that scene just have a big blur where the bird should be. Has anyone seen any good screen caps anywhere or is it just a big blur? I did a freeze frame on my TV (big screen, HiDef) and it looks like a generic “tropical bird”, except the tail was short and broad rather than long and thin. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2006, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/414 "2006-06-01T11:19:01Z")
We watched the season-opener repeat last night and Kate utters the title line from the finale to Jack. “Live together, die alone, right?” as they’re walking to the caves and talking about going into the hatch. I can’t remember why they wanted to leave the caves - did they think The Others were coming there to find them? Why was the beach a better place? When Jack meets Desmond at the stadium, Desmond has on a shirt with a vaguely Dharma-esque logo, sort of a pentagon shape with the maze-y lines in it. Never noticed it before. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2006, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/415 "2006-06-01T18:13:03Z")
Now that summer is here I need help with my Lost addiction. I don’t have gaming skills or time to go to all the websites but I want to know what info is out there and what new discoveries are made. Should I start a new thread that can keep us up to date with what people are learning about the show over the summer? I want lots of info about the websites especially. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/416 "2006-06-01T18:16:56Z")
Maybe a new thread for the summer - “Lost, the summer repeats” would be good for digging through stuff we missed the first time around. We could hash over the shows as they re-air, rather than dig up the older threads. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2006, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/417 "2006-06-01T18:27:14Z")
> [@BiblioCat](#): > > I can’t remember why they wanted to leave the caves - did they think The Others were coming there to find them? Why was the beach a better place? They never announced any big reasoning for leaving the caves. I don’t remember whether it occurred during the episode where CFL kidnapped Aaron or the one where they figured they were about to get overrun by the Others and went to get the dynamite to blow the hatch open so they could hide inside the hatch. In either case, I believe the implication was that they were safer living out in the open on the beach with no fresh water than with their backs to a hillside and lots of fresh water, in spite of the fact that somebody came into the beach camp and broke every bone in some guy’s body without anybody noticing. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2006, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/418 "2006-06-01T18:38:38Z")
I think the real reason why they moved back to the beach was that the writers wanted there to be a huge problem with the groups being separated, so that the two groups were basically cut off from each other, but that was a royal pain to write into every single script, so instead they kept writing the scenes like it was maybe a five minute walk from one to the other and finally they said, screw this, so they invented the water-catching basin for the beach and moved everybody back to the beach. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2006, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/419 "2006-06-01T18:45:16Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I think the real reason why they moved back to the beach was that the writers wanted there to be a huge problem with the groups being separated, so that the two groups were basically cut off from each other, but that was a royal pain to write into every single script, so instead they kept writing the scenes like it was maybe a five minute walk from one to the other and finally they said, screw this, so they invented the water-catching basin for the beach and moved everybody back to the beach. Besides, who wants to stay a place called, _The Rape Cave_? ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024/420 "2006-06-01T18:58:14Z")
I bumped the original 2.01 thread to ask a question which I’ll repeat here: Was there a Hanso ad for the ARG game? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-23-live-together-die-alone-season-finale-open-spoilers/358024.md?page=22)