# Lost 2.3: "Orientation" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 5, 2005, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852 "2005-10-05T06:24:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/201 "2005-10-07T03:14:21Z")
> [@BabaBooey](#): > > This show is so confusing. I mean, I love it, but I want to headbutt it in the tit at the same time. I think that says it all. The copyright on the film was 1980, and the trainer referred to ‘the incident’ that made entering the numbers necessary. So the incident must have happened between 1970 and 1980. I wonder what they had to do before the incident? **Sam Stone** that is an interesting theory about thinking about the numbers. It is starting to look like the islanders are going a little crazy, and Hurley is even starting to repeat them over and over like crazy asylum man. How much is due to regular stress of being stranded on an island after a plane crash? The trouble with this show is there are always 10 possible explanations for everything! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/202 "2005-10-07T09:35:25Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I thought Desmond recognized Jack when he first saw him, so I was confused to find that he didn’t recognize Jack until last night. Huh. Last week _Jack_ recognized Desmond, when his face became visible behind Locke, Jack said “You ?”, Desmond didn’t react to that - but then they were in a pointing gun stand off. It annoyed me that Locke kept asking Jack if he was upset about Desmond recognizing him/Jack and not mentioning the fact that Jack had reacted first. I’m not sure about this episode. My initial reaction was that using the idea to explain the hatch was lazy & that Sawyer was uncharecteristically naive when the woman dropped into the pit. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/203 "2005-10-07T12:39:39Z")
I’ve deleted the phone numbers from the quote and link that **xtisme** provided. I know, anyone can go and find it, but this is (after all) a thread about paranoid conspiracy… and we don’t want poor Mr Mann bombarded by phone calls. ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/204 "2005-10-07T12:42:15Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Here’s my theory… > And Hurley was the beneficiary – the guy in the loony bin who kept repeating the numbers was obviously an escapee from one of the sites. > Whose lottery did Hurley play, exactly? We saw it on Korean TV, but was it a Korean lottery? > [@fifty-six](#): > > Hurley’s old mate at the Looney Bin kept muttering the “magic” numbers. > I am willing to be that he was once in the hatch and it drove him crazy. > I suppose, if I am correct, there is a way off the island. You guys need to rewatch the episode **Numbers** from Season 1, where the lottery and the guy who mutters the numbers are _completely explained_ already. Failing that, check out last week’s post (s2e2, “ **Adrift** ”) and read my summary of the numbers story so far. Also: I was trying to figure out what the other animals would be (besides “the Swan”) to see if that would give us a hint. Because the eight sides of the _ba gua_ align with things like “older brother” or “middle sister” and also things like “fire” and “wind”, I figured maybe they also aligned with animals. So I did a Google Image Search for [“Feng Shui swan”](http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&q=Feng+shui+swan&btnG=Search) – check out that second result! :eek: …but no luck on figuring out which animals they chose. Swans are white, polar bears are white, and sharks can be white, though – is it possible they chose nothing but white animals? ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/205 "2005-10-07T13:25:37Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > If you go to the Active Projects [page](http://www.thehansofoundation.org/activeproject.html) on the Hanso Foundation [website](http://www.thehansofoundation.org/) , there’s a hidden [link](http://www.thehansofoundation.org/dharma.html) to the Dharma Initiative movie shown in yesterday’s episode. Cool. That wasn’t there yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/206 "2005-10-07T14:24:11Z")
I hate the hatch. My daughter keeps theorizing that the big black dude is a descendant of the slaves who were on the ship where the TNT was discovered. I dunno. He speaks English pretty well. The dude that plays Hurley was on Leno a few weeks back. He’s lost 30 pounds. It’s hard to tell on a fellow his size, but he is trying to lose weight. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/207 "2005-10-07T14:38:56Z")
> [@Jurph](#): > > …but no luck on figuring out which animals they chose. Swans are white, polar bears are white, and sharks can be white, though – is it possible they chose nothing but white animals? Isn’t white the traditional Chinese color of death and mourning? (Hey, everyone, can we stop with the “Pavlov”? Pavlov’s experiments were on autonomic systems - digestive secretions that aren’t controlled by higher brain function. Skinner was the dude who studied how to influence behavior. Just gettin’ under my skin a little.) ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/208 "2005-10-07T14:39:52Z")
Sorry if this has been discussed already, but when I tried to search “Gerald and karen Dagrut” (which is what I thought the dude in the film said when discussing the founders of the initiative), Yahoo gave me this. [Gerald and Karen Daarut](http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=gerald+and+karen+dagrut&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&fl=0&x=wrt) ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/209 "2005-10-07T14:41:15Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > My daughter keeps theorizing that the big black dude is a descendant of the slaves who were on the ship where the TNT was discovered. I dunno. He speaks English pretty well. The common wisdom is that he’s Rose’s husband, who went to the loo in the tail section just before it broke off. I don’t remember how we know that. Did a producer say so, or is everyone just assuming it? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/210 "2005-10-07T14:41:27Z")
I thought the researchers’ last name was spelled DeGroot. ---
**Author:** ![flex727](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/258eb7/32.png) [@flex727](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flex727)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/211 "2005-10-07T14:42:04Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > My daughter keeps theorizing that the big black dude is a descendant of the slaves who were on the ship where the TNT was discovered. I dunno. He speaks English pretty well. Nah, he’s Rose’s husband, dontcha think? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/212 "2005-10-07T14:43:09Z")
Sorry, I pressed “enter” too soon. It seems that “Daarut” means “hole in the earth” in Danish? I have no idea if this means anything, but I thought I’d share. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/213 "2005-10-07T15:02:28Z")
Here’s an interesting thought: Who do Sawyer and Mike meet on the beach? The one person they would immediately trust and accept to meet there. The guy who “somehow” managed to get away, and who has a job doing whatever his evil boss (whose office has a Dharma logo in it I believe) tells him. Maybe he’s a watcher for them. He stays away from the others to keep an eye on them. His wife is along for the ride to make sure he does what he’s supposed to do. If the currents are right, he could have made it back to the island before the raft. That’s how Jin can talk perfect English suddenly. He’s a plant, like Ethan. ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/214 "2005-10-07T15:03:13Z")
I think the large black man is the guy we’ve been told about in places like TV Guide who is a Nigerian living on the island. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/215 "2005-10-07T15:09:15Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Isn’t white the traditional Chinese color of death and mourning? Korean, at least. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/216 "2005-10-07T15:21:30Z")
> [@Sam Hell](#): > > Here’s an interesting thought: > > Who do Sawyer and Mike meet on the beach? The one person they would immediately trust and accept to meet there. The guy who “somehow” managed to get away, and who has a job doing whatever his evil boss (whose office has a Dharma logo in it I believe) tells him. . Except Jin knew about the gun, so why wouldn’t he have told the rest to search their unconscious bodies before dumping them into the pit? ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/217 "2005-10-07T15:30:16Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Except Jin knew about the gun, so why wouldn’t he have told the rest to search their unconscious bodies before dumping them into the pit? Maybe he’s a double agent. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/218 "2005-10-07T15:34:09Z")
I’m not suggesting he’s working with the Others, but with whatever remains of the Dharma folks. Besides, I’d stay with the people who already trust me and have the gun rather than try to forge a new relationship with hostile strangers. Besides, perhaps the plane wasn’t intended to break up, and so Dharma didn’t know there would be “Others”, if that is them, which I’m doubting. Or, it was but they didn’t think the tail people would survive. How DID they survive? ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/219 "2005-10-07T15:36:36Z")
> [@Sam Hell](#): > > his evil boss (whose office has a Dharma logo in it Cite? I think I’d have heard about this from elsewhere if there were a Dharma logo in Mr. Paik’s office. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/220 "2005-10-07T16:41:22Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > (Hey, everyone, can we stop with the “Pavlov”? Pavlov’s experiments were on autonomic systems - digestive secretions that aren’t controlled by higher brain function. Skinner was the dude who studied how to influence behavior. Just gettin’ under my skin a little.) Not entirely accurate. Almost any automatic physiological response can be conditioned with classic conditioning, including eyeblinks and reflexes. While the voluntary typing of the keys and pushing of the EXECUTE button is Skinnerian, the arousal and fear produced by the count-down warning of the timer is purely Pavlovian. Buzzer (Neutral Stimulus)=orienting response Fear of Death (Unconditioned Stimulus)=anxiety (Unconditioned Response) Buzzer+Fear of Death=anxiety (Classic Conditioning) Buzzer (Conditioned Stimulus)=Anxiety (Conditioned Response) So, pushing the button is voluntary but the fear and anxiety related to the sounds of the timer are involuntary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852.md?page=12)