# Lost 2.3: "Orientation" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 5, 2005, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852 "2005-10-05T06:24:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/141 "2005-10-06T17:25:18Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > How does the unnamed ‘incident’ tie into the two mummified bodies found in the caves at the beginning of season one? The mummies give me no end of agita. Everyone seems to have forgotten about them, and it’s driving me nuts. Jack, who is obviously no forensic anthropologist (but nevertheless the best judge of such things on the island) seemed to think the corpses were 35-40 years old. Thirty-five years would put them there right about the same time as the conception of the project–but it likely would have taken several years for the Hanso Foundation to excavate the hatch and the like before putting anybody on-site, right? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/142 "2005-10-06T17:28:32Z")
Also, the ship Black Rock appears to precede the project, unless they were doing something that caused it to be pulled out of time. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/143 "2005-10-06T17:29:43Z")
Maybe I missed something from the show, but: What was the Helen/Locke group meeting? 12-step anger management? What did they do to end up there? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/144 "2005-10-06T17:30:15Z")
**Draelin.** We could put that to the anachronisms that we’ve already seen: landbound 19th century slave ships and highly developed technological “burglar alarms”… Many also assume the hatch was excavated and not purposely built. I think the hatch was built around whatever electromagnetic anamoly was discovered there that drove all this other research. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/145 "2005-10-06T17:31:56Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > Also, the ship Black Rock appears to precede the project, unless they were doing something that caused it to be pulled out of time. …a la Philadelphia Experiment. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/146 "2005-10-06T17:32:57Z")
> [@Oslo Ostragoth](#): > > What was the Helen/Locke group meeting? 12-step anger management? What did they do to end up there? It appeared to be a weekly support group for people with issues with family: Locke’s father, Mama stole $30 lady, Helen’s husband… Could Locke’s father be the con artist that seduced and robbed Sawyer’s mom and led to his father’s muder/suicide? He’s callous enough. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/147 "2005-10-06T17:36:53Z")
I thought the girl looked pissed in the pit because she was a mole, sent down to find out what they know, and then she finds out they’ve got a gun, which, (a) good job searching them, guys, (b) if they find out who I am suddenly I’m a hostage, but © hey, free gun! It’s a foregone conclusion therefore that the people who captured Our Boys have nothing to do with the people on the boat: I can’t help but think that they would have turned Sawyer inside-out looking for the gun… The guy playing Jin was great… he told them the first word he learned in English: “Others!” and they’re all, How many, where, what, who, talking a mile a minute, and he’s all, “umm… others?” ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/148 "2005-10-06T17:42:53Z")
> [@lachesis](#): > > **Sam Hell** , i’m surprised at you. > > yes, they could have (and may well have) inserted subliminal messages into the Indoctrina… em, Orientation film. but [as the Master hath spake](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_187.html), what good would it do? (although i suppose if anyone decides to do a frame-by-frame on that degraded celluloid, it might prove amusing to see what conceits the Foundation thought it could propagate.) My question was more as to would it be possible with that type of setup as opposed to a modern television set. It was more of a mechanical question; I have read that column. I suppose it’s more of GQ question. :smack: Some of that film DID look odd, especially the creepy way they showed the money guy in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/149 "2005-10-06T17:56:33Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Many also assume the hatch was excavated and not purposely built. I think the hatch was built around whatever electromagnetic anamoly was discovered there that drove all this other research. I misspoke (mistyped? 🙂 ). By “excavated,” I meant “dug a big hole in the ground and then built the hatch,” not that Dharma got there and said “Hey! An underground living space! Good find, now _we_ don’t have to build one!” ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/150 "2005-10-06T17:59:21Z")
Is it just me, or does Mr. Hanso look a little like Jimmy Carter? ALVAR HANSO = A LARVA NOSH. He’s bug food. NAVAL RSA HO. Works on security for ship computers. LAVA HAS RON. Alvar’s best friend Ron is Pele’s girlfriend. AH LARS NOVA. Lars Nova, interplanetary playboy. The philanderer and the philanthropist. HAS OVAL RNA. This is the show’s big secret. He’s a genetically modified Superman. What’s going to happen when Shannon finds out that they ‘pushed the button’? ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/151 "2005-10-06T18:00:30Z")
Possible hint to other bases on island (or nearby): The logo on the shark looks to be different. [http://episteme.arstechnica.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/34709834/m/230003935731/p/9](http://episteme.arstechnica.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/34709834/m/230003935731/p/9) scroll down a bit, look for post by **Rob442** Brian ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/152 "2005-10-06T18:03:17Z")
> [@lachesis](#): > > i was a bit annoyed with Jack for caving and pushing the button. i think he wussed out there. however, i’ll cut him a small degree of slack: all the yelling and shooting and confrontation and crying – he’s probably running a little ragged about now, and that’s never the best mindset for making totally rational decisions. Well, it’s not like he’s never gonna get another chance to not push the button. Every 108 minutes, to be precise. So the decision wasn’t \* urgent \*. Press the damn button this time, then follow the wires and see where they all go to. If it’s a big freaking bomb labeled “Final Solution. This Side Up.” then they can keep pressing the button 🙂 But I agree with Sam Stone. Nothing about the setup makes any sense from a “we’re all gonna die perspective.” If the fate of the world rests on these guys, no one is going to leave them alone for 2 months, much less two years at a stretch. The weird deadman setup only makes sense if you wanted to know when the inhabitants were dead or sick so you could send new ones. (Hmmm…108 minutes with no button pushing – time to send in the new recruits.) Otherwise, even with 1970’s technology, it would be no big deal to build something that pressed a switch every couple of hours. Not to mention that the orientation film would have been a lot more, well, threatening if the fate of the world depended on someone pushing the button. It was amazingly lacking in the “If you fail, everyone dies” motif. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/153 "2005-10-06T18:04:37Z")
> [@Draelin](#): > > I misspoke (mistyped? 🙂 ). By “excavated,” I meant “dug a big hole in the ground and then built the hatch,” not that Dharma got there and said “Hey! An underground living space! Good find, now _we_ don’t have to build one!” Right, right. See, that was the theory I’d been operating under for awhile, actually — that they had somehow co-opted a pre-existing crashed alien ship or habitat (ala Moore’s _Miracleman_) or timetravelling spacecraft (ala Crichton’s _Sphere)_. I suspect that the electromagnetic power source factors majorly into both the “incident” and why Hanso was on this particular islnad to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/154 "2005-10-06T18:11:17Z")
Here’s my theory…remember, you heard it here first or somewhere farther up thread, that I missed: The Dharma project was testing the combination of powerful electromagnetic fields and paranormal fixation on The Numbers, with the goal of: INFLUENCING THE LOTTERY! Yes, when they got The Numbers to come up in the lottery, their experiment was a success. And Hurley was the beneficiary – the guy in the loony bin who kept repeating the numbers was obviously an escapee from one of the sites. Whose lottery did Hurley play, exactly? We saw it on Korean TV, but was it a Korean lottery? ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/155 "2005-10-06T18:27:05Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Though ans Apple II(e) doesn’t have an execute key, the case / disk drives / daughtercard setup is definitely AppleIIesque. You also don’t turn an Apple II on by turning on the monitor (the power switch is on the rear left of the chassis, the monitor turns on separately), so it seems there is some artistic license at play. There’s also the possibility the machine is actually [an Apple II clone](http://www.apple2clones.com/) with a similar case, one that does get power through the monitor and/or have an execute key. There’s way too many clones to look through, though, so I’m just going to go with the artistic license thing. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/156 "2005-10-06T18:29:40Z")
I was happy to see Vincent playing fetch on the beach. Where’s Walto? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/157 "2005-10-06T18:31:31Z")
Could someone explain to me exactly how allowing Locke’s brains to get splattered all over the room was going to produce _any_ useful information about Kate’s whereabouts? Has Jack ever made a decision of any kind he didn’t then go back on? “I’m not going to the hatch. Ooh, Kate’s going, I’m in!” “You have to push the button.” “No! I’ll never push the button! Well, ok.” Sayid should have just pushed the damn button. What’s up with Hurley? “Don’t put that code in!” Well, someone’s been putting that code in for years and nothing bad has happened. Could it really hurt to enter that code one more time, considering there is the _slight_ possibility that something really bad is going to happen if you don’t? And has Hurley gotten even fatter? I’m worried about that guy. I hoped last season they’d get him a doctor, a personal trainer and a nutritionist and we could all watch him lose weight and get healthier over the course of the show. But man, he looks like hell. ---
**Author:** ![Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ass_For_A_Hat)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/158 "2005-10-06T18:34:00Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I can’t help but think that they would have turned Sawyer inside-out looking for the gun… I’m overanalysing a bit, but why did Sawyer have the gun? Michael had it last when he shot the shark, right? Regarding the “saving the world” remark…I didn’t take that literally. I took it to mean that by pressing the button, they were saving their world…probably just the island. I’m remembering last season when Michael told Walt that they didn’t have to leave the island on the raft, to which Walt replied “Yes, we do.” Walt also warned Locke about opening the Hatch. If Walt really has “special abilities”, doesn’t that lead us to believe that the hatch contains something more ominous that just a psychological experiment with a Skinner Box? Regading Walt’s supposed backwards talking warning about “the button”…has anyone here actually played this backwards and heard it for themselves? What evidence do we have that is really what he said? ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/159 "2005-10-06T18:36:47Z")
I think it’s pretty reasonable for Hurley to be scared of using those numbers. I love that he only acquiesced when Locke used 32 instead of 42. Typical Hurley! ---
**Author:** ![Boardwalk\_Elvis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/57b2e6/32.png) [@Boardwalk\_Elvis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boardwalk_Elvis)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852/160 "2005-10-06T18:45:03Z")
I just want to say I love [this](http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=728&pos=18) photo from “Orientation”. Jin and Sawyer are out for the count, and Mike is about to get his bell rung by “Shaft”! 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-3-orientation/324852.md?page=9)