# Lost 2.5: "... and Found" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 19, 2005, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890 "2005-10-19T13:17:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/161 "2005-10-22T13:39:35Z")
So I watched the episode again, and it’s unclear which trigram Jin’s friend is reading. It could either be hexagram 12, or hexagram **42** :eek: . I already looked up #12, and it doesn’t say much. However, I think we can all agree that the writers wanted us to read #42. So, without further ado, an interpretation of hexagram 42. First, a [full page interpretation](http://www.antonheyboer.nl/i_ching/hex_33-48/hex_e_42.htm), into which one can read all sorts of nonsense. Then, for you lazy kids, a short summary: The Judgement \*Increase. It furthers one To undertake something. **It furthers one to cross the great water.** 😃 \* The Image _Wind and thunder: the image of Increase. Thus the superior man: If he sees good, he imitates it; If he has faults, he rids himself of them._ It’s a pretty sound message for Jin, but like most fortune-telling, it’s broad and anyone can say “that’s ME!” Some of the more detailed descriptions ring true when you consider that Jin is, at his heart, a fisherman and not a gangster. As for “Wind and thunder,” well, I’ve also heard that later on, WAAAAAAAALLT! ---
**Author:** ![Alias](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@Alias](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alias)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/162 "2005-10-22T13:40:49Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Did anyone catch the conversation between Jin and Eko about wives? If I understood correctly: > > Eko: What’s your wife’s name? > Jin: Sun. > Eko: Was she on the plane? > Jin: Yes. You? > Eko: Worse. (?) > > If I heard Eko’s response correctly, he’s married and something happened to his wife. Maybe she was one of the ones taken by the Others? I bet she’s with WAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLT!!! ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/163 "2005-10-22T14:12:34Z")
> [@Jurph](#): > > So I watched the episode again, and it’s unclear which trigram Jin’s friend is reading. It could either be hexagram 12, or hexagram **42** :eek: . I already looked up #12, and it doesn’t say much. …except he moves the ruler and it IS #12. Stupid facts, getting in the way of a cool theory… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/164 "2005-10-22T14:30:34Z")
KIRK picks up the wrist communicator and speaks into it. KIRK: Khan, you bloodsucker! You’re going to have to do your own dirty work now… do you hear me? Do you? KHAN is shocked. KHAN: Kirk… my old friend, you’re still alive… KIRK: Still, old friend. You’ve managed to kill just about everyone else, but like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target! KHAN: Perhaps… I no longer need to try. KHAN motions to one of his minions, who presses a few buttons. The Genesis Device dematerializes, transported back to the Reliant. DAVID lunges for it and is held back by Saavik. DAVID: No! He can’t take it! KIRK: Khan… you’ve got Genesis, but you don’t have me. You were going to kill me, Khan! You’re going to have to come down here, you’re going to have to come down here! KHAN: I’ve done far worse than kill you. I’ve hurt you… and I wish to go on, hurting you. I shall leave you as you left me. Marooned for all eternity in the centre of a dea dplanet. Buried alive… buried alive… KIRK: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALT! ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/165 "2005-10-22T14:49:11Z")
> [@Alias](#): > > I bet she’s with WAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLT!!! I like how he also intersperses it every once in a while with a short one. Like he’s trying to get Walt’s attention away from his comic book or video game. WAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLT! WAAAAAAAAAAAAALALLLLLLLLLLLLLT! Walt! ---
**Author:** ![Alliex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@Alliex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alliex)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/166 "2005-10-22T16:53:49Z")
Originally posted by Little Nemo > [@](#): > > Did anyone catch the conversation between Jin and Eko about wives? If I understood correctly: > > Eko: What’s your wife’s name? > Jin: Sun. > Eko: Was she on the plane? > Jin: Yes. You? > Eko: Worse. (?) > > If I heard Eko’s response correctly, he’s married and something happened to his wife. Maybe she was one of the ones taken by the Others? [/QUOTE] Eko had first asked Jin if he was married, then asked the detail of her name…Jin was asking, “You?”, meaning are YOU married (IMO)…and then Eko said worse…whatever that means…maybe just married men humor. Allie X ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/167 "2005-10-22T19:31:15Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Took me a while to see the episode on tape so I’m late to the party. I’m surprised no one has mentioned that “animal” in the jungle. What the hell was it? It wasn’t a polar bear. Yes, it was a boar. But speaking of Polar Bears, has anyone done a freeze frame on any of the polar bear clips to see if a Dharna logo is visible (as it was on the shark)? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/168 "2005-10-22T19:36:53Z")
I’d be happy to hear that someone found a Dharma logo on the polar bear. It might indicate that the plot is planned and not random as I suspect. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/169 "2005-10-22T19:43:02Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Eko: What’s your wife’s name? > Jin: Sun. > Eko: Was she on the plane? > Jin: Yes. You? > Eko: Worse. That almost sounded to me like he has more than one, perhaps multiple wives. Do we know where he’s from yet? ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/170 "2005-10-22T19:47:11Z")
Perhaps the worse is that his wife was not on the plane? WAALLLLTy WAALLLLLty Oxen free! ---
**Author:** ![McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDeath_the_Mad)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/171 "2005-10-22T20:01:08Z")
Okay 170 posts and nobody has mentioned the symbol on the wall of the tail people’s bunker? It was a Dharma logo, but it looked like a different animal than the one that was in Desmond’s bunker. Any thoughts? MtM ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/172 "2005-10-22T21:50:41Z")
> [@Jurph](#): > > So I watched the episode again, and it’s unclear which trigram Jin’s friend is reading. It could either be hexagram 12, or hexagram **42** :eek: If it makes you feel any better, [I think hexagram 42 had a place in _Adrift_.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6635856&postcount=170) Made sense with the plot of that specific episode. As for hexagram 12, it could work too, depending on what translation you use. In the _oldest_ versions of the I Ching, this hexagram is not called anything like “obstruction,” but rather “the wife.” (No smartarsed remarks, please.) Anyway, oldest or not, hardly anyone uses this version. The Legge translation (the standard english translation for a _long_ time) for #12 says “Many a smallness sets in through lack of deep understanding. For removing some conditions of distress, fishing in good time may help.” In the flashback portion of _…and Found_, the main thing going on was Jin’s desire to be something “better” than a fisherman, which led to undeserved humbling from people who _weren’t_ any better than him. As soon as he stopped trying to be something else, things got better. Of course, in the “island time” portion of the story, this was more literally true. He did his fishing “in good time,” and made out much better than Rambina and co, who were just casting their nets in willy-nilly. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/173 "2005-10-22T21:52:27Z")
I’m not sure about the symbol, but the tailenders certainly seem to have their backs against the WAAAAALLLT! ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/174 "2005-10-22T22:22:52Z")
> [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](#): > > Okay 170 posts and nobody has mentioned the symbol on the wall of the tail people’s bunker? > > It was a Dharma logo, but it looked like a different animal than the one that was in Desmond’s bunker. That’s because it was mentioned in last week’s thread, when the symbol was first seen (in episode 2.4 – “Everybody Hates Hugo”). And yes, it did look different inside – I presume because our hatch is “the Swan”, and had the little swan logo inside. This other bunker/station probably has its own codename/nickname. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/175 "2005-10-22T23:06:29Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > That’s because it was mentioned in last week’s thread, when the symbol was first seen (in episode 2.4 – “Everybody Hates Hugo”). > > And yes, it did look different inside – I presume because our hatch is “the Swan”, and had the little swan logo inside. This other bunker/station probably has its own codename/nickname. Arrow. It’s speculated that the symbols in the six bunkers are the six constellations of Apollo: 1. Cygnus = swan 2. Sagitta = arrow 3. Corvus = crow 4. Crater = goblet 5. Ophiuchus = serpent handler 6. Orion = the hunter I’ve heard, but have not verified, that the Dharma logo on the shark has a snake in it. > [@Dewey Finn](#): > > ``` > I'd be happy to hear that someone found a Dharma logo on the polar bear. It might indicate that the plot is planned and not random as I suspect. > > ``` You can see the Dharma logo on the fusilage of the plane in episode 3 of season 1. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/176 "2005-10-22T23:52:09Z")
All the talk about Michael aimlessly wandering around screaming WAAAAALLLTTTT! reminds me of the game Marathon where there were these NPC guys called “Bob” who ran around screaming “They’re everywhere!” and got in your way all the time. So if they make a Lost video game Michael can be the “Bob” running around screaming WAAAAALLLLTTT! Even better if you can shoot him. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/177 "2005-10-23T01:04:29Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Arrow. It’s speculated that the symbols in the six bunkers are the six constellations of Apollo… That would be kind of cool. > [@John Mace](#): > > You can see the Dharma logo on the fusilage of the plane in episode 3 of season 1. Can you back up this claim? This wouldn’t make any sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/178 "2005-10-23T05:27:59Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > Can you back up this claim? This wouldn’t make any sense to me. [Here’s a screenshot](http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x03-tabularasa/tabularasa530.jpg). (Dopers have independently confirmed that this appeared on the broadcast of the show.) It’s not _quite_ the Dharma Initiative logo, though. It’s an octagon, alright – or three nested octagons. That’s quite strikingly similar, but if you compare it to the [Dharma Initiative logo](http://thedharmainitiative.org/), you’ll see that the logo has distinct breaks at each vertex – and of course some of the lines themselves are broken, in order to form the I Ching hexagrams. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/179 "2005-10-23T05:29:55Z")
Bah. _Trigrams._ ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890/180 "2005-10-23T08:06:11Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > 1. Cygnus = swan > 2. Sagitta = arrow > 3. Corvus = crow > 4. Crater = goblet > 5. Ophiuchus = serpent handler > 6. Orion = the hunter 1. WAAAAALLLT! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-2-5-and-found/326890.md?page=10)