# Lost 3.12: "Par Avion" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 14, 2007, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895 "2007-03-14T15:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/141 "2007-03-20T22:55:39Z")
[QUOTE=middleman] - For some reason, I believe the Great One will be a character already introduced. My suspicion is, it will be Jack’s dad. I certainly think he is still alive and seems to type to build a cult around himself. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I’ve wondered that myself a few times. I think the fact that his body wasn’t in the coffin early in season 1 when Jack went looking… that seems to be a big clue that Christian Shephard may still be alive. He certainly seems to be a central character for being dead, and he’s become the most common element in different people’s flashbacks. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/142 "2007-03-21T02:44:45Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] It _ji **b** es_. [/QUOTE] I debated between the two. I made an error, but in the spirit of today’s political climate, I stand by that decision without apology! :D\* [QUOTE=Monstre] Yeah, I’ve wondered that myself a few times. I think the fact that his body wasn’t in the coffin early in season 1 when Jack went looking… that seems to be a big clue that Christian Shepherd may still be alive. He certainly seems to be a central character for being dead, and he’s become the most common element in different people’s flashbacks. [/QUOTE] No doubt. He’s been in four different characters’ flashbacks by my count. Jack, obviously. Ana-Lucia. Claire. Sawyer. Plus, he was a “mirage” on the island. Even if dead, he’s clearly involved. A reckless, take no prisoners, god-complex, uber-brilliant doctor like Christian Shepherd is surely involved with a group of scientists bent on saving the world by any means necessary. Wouldn’t Jack’s dad fit in perfectly with Benry, Blonde Hottie From Gia, Ethan and the guy played by Brett Cullen who got turned into a shish kabob? \*Well. At the very least, I will say, that if I knew then, what I know now, I would have never typed the word jives. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/143 "2007-03-21T02:55:30Z")
[QUOTE=PerditaX] Edgar Winter is an albino and does have pink eyes, but blue eyes are more common. [/QUOTE] So then don’t post things like this: > [@PeridtaX](#): > > /nitpick/ > Human albinos have blue eyes, not pink. as if they were true and you knew what you were talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Skott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skott)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/144 "2007-03-21T04:18:21Z")
[QUOTE=middleman] For some reason, I believe the Great One will be a character already introduced. My suspicion is, it will be Jack’s dad. I certainly think he is still alive and seems to type to build a cult around himself. [/QUOTE] I keep hearing the Other’s talk about **Him** in such glowing terms, and clearly Jack’s dad is no glowing character, unless you _want_ your surgeon to be drunk while operating. Personally, I think **He** is the BSM. Here, you have a being who can transmorgrify into people, animals, black smoke, and even the Hand of God 😉 … who can download your brain and determine whether you are “good” or “bad” (wonder if the BSM can transmorgrify into Robot Santa?), and who can read your mind and get inside your dreams. If that’s not the most magnificent living thing on Earth, and thus prime candidate for **Him** , then I’d hate to find out what’s _more_ impressive that inspires such awe in the Others. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/145 "2007-03-21T04:36:10Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] So then don’t post things like this: as if they were true and you knew what you were talking about. [/QUOTE] Nono. Albinos typically are blue-eyed. This means it is fair to say “Albinos have blue eyes.” It takes something extra, over and above albinism, to give someone red eyes. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/146 "2007-03-21T05:28:27Z")
[QUOTE=Skott] I keep hearing the Other’s talk about **Him** in such glowing terms, and clearly Jack’s dad is no glowing character, unless you _want_ your surgeon to be drunk while operating. Personally, I think **He** is the BSM. Here, you have a being who can transmorgrify into people, animals, black smoke, and even the Hand of God 😉 … who can download your brain and determine whether you are “good” or “bad” (wonder if the BSM can transmorgrify into Robot Santa?), and who can read your mind and get inside your dreams. If that’s not the most magnificent living thing on Earth, and thus prime candidate for **Him** , then I’d hate to find out what’s _more_ impressive that inspires such awe in the Others. [/QUOTE] BSM? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/147 "2007-03-21T06:00:20Z")
Black smoke monster, I’m guessing. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/148 "2007-03-21T06:03:39Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] Nono. Albinos typically are blue-eyed. This means it is fair to say “Albinos have blue eyes.” It takes something extra, over and above albinism, to give someone red eyes. -FrL- [/QUOTE] From [here:](http://www.kidshealth.org/kid/health_problems/birth_defect/albinism.html) > [@](#): > > In some cases of albinism, a kid’s eyes might appear pink or reddish. This isn’t because the iris (the colored part of the eye) is pink or red. It’s because the iris actually has very little color. The eyes appear pink or red because the blood vessels inside of the eye (on the retina) show through the iris. From [here:](http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=182031&lastnode_id=169667) > [@](#): > > there may be so little melanin in the iris that it becomes translucent or transparent. This makes the blood vessels within the eyeball visible, causing the iris itself to appear red or pink. From [here:](http://www.answers.com/topic/albinism) > [@](#): > > In humans with generalized, or total, albinism, the affected person has milk-white skin and hair; the iris of the eye appears pink, the pupil red. From [here:](http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/article-9005455/albinism) > [@](#): > > Albinism is a hereditary condition in humans and other vertebrates. In generalized, or total albinism, the affected person has milk-white skin and hair, though the skin may be slightly pinkish in colour owing to underlying blood vessels. The iris of the eye appears pink, while the pupil itself appears red from light reflected by blood in the unpigmented choroid. And to conclude my riposte, I offer you in turn the battle cry of the SDMB: Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/149 "2007-03-21T07:37:55Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] From [here:](http://www.kidshealth.org/kid/health_problems/birth_defect/albinism.html) From [here:](http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=182031&lastnode_id=169667) From [here:](http://www.answers.com/topic/albinism) From [here:](http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/article-9005455/albinism) And to conclude my riposte, I offer you in turn the battle cry of the SDMB: Cite? [/QUOTE] A. Actually, I was just trying to explain what that other guy was saying, though I see, upon reading my post, that I phrased it as though it were my own view I was giving expression to. B. The wikipedia article has already been cited. It says there that reddish eyes are the exception, rather than the rule. Furthermore, some of the statements you quoted also count as cites for “me” because: C. The statements you’ve cited don’t support your contention (which I think is the contention that) albinos _typically_ have reddish eyes. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/150 "2007-03-21T12:39:57Z")
[QUOTE=Skott] I keep hearing the Other’s talk about **Him** in such glowing terms… [/QUOTE] Correct me if I’m mistaken, but don’t the Others talk about **Him** in fearful terms? They’re scared to death of **Him**. To the point of begging to be shot if they’ve failed in their duties. I think **He** is more likely a Devil-like personality than a God-like personality. ---
**Author:** ![MissRancher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71c47a/32.png) [@MissRancher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissRancher)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/151 "2007-03-21T13:06:22Z")
[QUOTE=PerditaX] Desmond seems to have acquired precognitive abilities after “the sky turned purple.” Nobody else has, as far as we know. [/QUOTE] I was thinking that Locke gained some of those abilities too, but didn’t tell anyone about it - which is why he grabbed the C4 and pushed EPG through the fence. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/152 "2007-03-21T13:11:16Z")
[QUOTE=MissRancher] I was thinking that Locke gained some of those abilities too, but didn’t tell anyone about it - which is why he grabbed the C4 and pushed EPG through the fence. [/QUOTE] Naw, that can’t be right. It would make too much sense. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/153 "2007-03-21T13:53:18Z")
[QUOTE=Algernon] Correct me if I’m mistaken, but don’t the Others talk about **Him** in fearful terms? They’re scared to death of **Him**. To the point of begging to be shot if they’ve failed in their duties. I think **He** is more likely a Devil-like personality than a God-like personality. [/QUOTE] Have you heard Southern Baptists talk about God? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skott)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/154 "2007-03-21T17:50:59Z")
[QUOTE=Algernon] Correct me if I’m mistaken, but don’t the Others talk about **Him** in fearful terms? They’re scared to death of **Him**. To the point of begging to be shot if they’ve failed in their duties. I think **He** is more likely a Devil-like personality than a God-like personality. [/QUOTE] I’d say reverential fear: > [@Mikhail](#): > > [T]the man who brought me here… who brought all of my people here… He’s a magnificent man. > [@Ben](#): > > He is a great man, a brilliant man, but not a forgiving man. (And we saw how forgiving the BSM was with Eko, as further evidence.) Lostpedia has an [anaylisis](http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Him/Theories) of just about everyone who could possibly be **Him**. They pretty much discount my BSM = Him hypothesis (BSM is Black Smoke Monster, sorry) based on the idea that it’s been implied that BSM is a non-cognitive security system (which I disagree with); however, they do allow for the idea that BSM is being controlled by Him. None of the other people mentioned, though, seem to be plausible candidates (the evidence for Jacob or DeGroot is minimal at best). It could certainly be that the Others think of a non-cognitive security system with amazing powers as an entity they call **Him**. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/155 "2007-03-21T17:53:44Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] B. The wikipedia article has already been cited. It says there that reddish eyes are the exception, rather than the rule. Furthermore, some of the statements you quoted also count as cites for “me” because: C. The statements you’ve cited don’t support your contention (which I think is the contention that) albinos _typically_ have reddish eyes. [/QUOTE] Please please please point out to me where I said albinos typically have reddish eyes. I’ve always wanted to see me say something I didn’t say. Now if you’re interested in what I actually said (since you couldn’t be bothered to read the thread), it was just this: PerditaX “/nitpicked/” the “fact” that albinos have blue eyes, not pink. I pointed out that he/she was wrong by posting a picture of the famous pink-eyed albino Edgar Winter and would have left it at that. However, he or she came back with a persnickety response that _I_ needed to go read “Wiki” to learn about albinos. I felt like this was uncalled for because I wasn’t the one who posted erroneous information about them. ---
**Author:** ![wasson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/4da419/32.png) [@wasson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wasson)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/156 "2007-03-21T18:32:39Z")
[QUOTE=Skott] None of the other people mentioned, though, seem to be plausible candidates (the evidence for Jacob or DeGroot is minimal at best). It could certainly be that the Others think of a non-cognitive security system with amazing powers as an entity they call **Him**. [/QUOTE] I’m pretty sure on the podcast, the producers say outright that Jacob is “Him”. Still doesn’t help us figure out who in the world Jacob is, though. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/157 "2007-03-21T18:45:53Z")
[QUOTE=wasson] I’m pretty sure on the podcast, the producers say outright that Jacob is “Him”. Still doesn’t help us figure out who in the world Jacob is, though. [/QUOTE] Please box these types of spoilers, with a general idea of what’s inside the box and where you got it from. ---
**Author:** ![wasson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/4da419/32.png) [@wasson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wasson)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/158 "2007-03-21T18:50:16Z")
Well, it wasn’t really a spoiler… my point was that the Jacob/Him thing has pretty much been settled by the producers themselves, so there’s really not a point in speculating about it anymore. I thought it was pretty clear from the show, myself, but now the producers have outright said it to clear the air. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/159 "2007-03-21T18:51:10Z")
Jacob is a very biblical name. As is Christian Shepherd. ---
**Author:** ![Skott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skott)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895/160 "2007-03-21T19:01:16Z")
[QUOTE=wasson] I’m pretty sure on the podcast, the producers say outright that Jacob is “Him”. Still doesn’t help us figure out who in the world Jacob is, though. [/QUOTE] Shows what I get for not watching podcasts 😃 However, if all they said was “Jacob is Him”, then that’s almost irrelevant information, since, as you said, we have no idea who Jacob is. And if we’ve seen him any of the previous episodes, then I say speculation is still open, only that we can replace “ **Him** ” with Jacob. So who’s Abraham? 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-12-par-avion/395895.md?page=9)