# Lost 3.19: "The Brig" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 2, 2007, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452 "2007-05-02T13:41:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/121 "2007-05-03T20:59:34Z")
[QUOTE=well he’s back] Hampshire - If Locke were truly working on his own, why would he need to lug his Daddy’s body back to Ben?? [/QUOTE] To further infiltrate Ben’s cult, however not for the benefit of the survivors but moreso for himself. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/122 "2007-05-03T21:03:44Z")
[QUOTE=CJJ\*] It is clear that Ben’s control over the Others is slipping; Juliet’s plot to kill him in surgery, the Alex/boyfriend mutiny, the recruiter quietly handing Sawyer’s file over to Locke–all of these point to a political struggle within the Others camp. [/QUOTE] Maybe, but the Others seem to enjoy playing good cop/bad cop in order to get the Losties to do what they want. Isn’t it possible that they know Locke wants to be special, and hates to be embarrassed and told he’s useless, so they sent the guy over with the file and the story? And they only staged the tied-to-a-post murder challenge (did anyone else imagine King Kong crashing out of the jungle to run off with Cooper?) as a means of getting to part B of the plan? And Juliet wanting to have Ben die during surgery… I’m still not totally convinced that it wasn’t all a way to get Jack on her side so she could eventually infiltrate the Losties’ camp. She hates him because he won’t let her leave, but back at that point, she still thought he had the power to send her home. On an unrelated note, I’m thinking the Others have flash-forwards like Desmond does, and are able to use them to better manipulate the Losties. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/123 "2007-05-03T21:20:31Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I don’t think Kate knows what she wants, but she doesn’t want anyone else to have something (or someone) that she _might_ want. She wants both Jack and Sawyer to chase after her, and then she’ll push them away when they try to get too close. In fact she’s just like… well, you’re probably not interested in that story. 🙂 [/QUOTE] On the surface, Kate is conflicted because she wants to be “good” in the abstract, but in the particulars she’s more attracted to the “bad”. Kate intellectually realizes the “goodness” in Jack, wants to help him to achieve whatever “good” goals he’s after, wants him to approve of her, and perhaps wants to be in love him. But her heart’s not in it; she’s more attracted to the “bad” side, perhaps because it’s more inherently interesting (noble characters are often the most boring), or perhaps as a reflection of her own soul. I used quote marks throughout that paragraph because “good” and “bad” don’t really capture the difference between Jack and Sawyer. Morally, each are capable of both type of acts, and it may be more in the way they present themselves than in their hearts. This in fact is why I say this conflict of Kate’s is “on the surface”; her real problem is her inability to acquire the intimacy she craves. This is why she’s jealous of Juliet: Despite the lack of sexual chemistry between them (at least there’s no hint of it other than friendliness) Juliet has quickly developed a friendly intimacy with Jack that Kate, for all her sexual posturing, has failed to achieve. Kate goes to Sawyer not because she’s attracted to the bad boy, but because he offers her a faux intimacy that doesn’t challenge her buried fears. Sawyer’s OK with that for now (I think most guys would take Evangeline Lilly on whatever terms they could get 🙂 ), but I also notice that Sawyer is becoming more community-oriented, learning the inherent value of helping the group, earning “points” as Hurley put it. This, I think, is developing Sawyer’s humanity; yes, he strangled Cooper in one of the most chilling scenes of rage I’ve seen on TV in a while, but notice him afterward, throwing up in the jungle, physically humbled before the now sage-like Locke. It’s only in the developing stages now, but I think he will eventually grow tired of Kate’s easy access and her superficial affection, despite his statements to the contrary. I’m betting he’s going to confront her with her own inadequacies pretty soon, and Kate will be crushed into facing them much like Locke has had to face his before becoming a better/stronger person in the calculus of The Island’s power. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/124 "2007-05-03T21:26:00Z")
[QUOTE=CJJ\*] It is clear that Ben’s control over the Others is slipping; Juliet’s plot to kill him in surgery… [/QUOTE] After catching up, I forgot about this post… doesn’t it seem that Juliet was merely conning Jack by making it _appear_ she wanted Ben dead? ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/125 "2007-05-03T21:27:14Z")
[QUOTE=Antigen] Maybe, but the Others seem to enjoy playing good cop/bad cop in order to get the Losties to do what they want. Isn’t it possible that they know Locke wants to be special, and hates to be embarrassed and told he’s useless, so they sent the guy over with the file and the story? And they only staged the tied-to-a-post murder challenge (did anyone else imagine King Kong crashing out of the jungle to run off with Cooper?) as a means of getting to part B of the plan? And Juliet wanting to have Ben die during surgery… I’m still not totally convinced that it wasn’t all a way to get Jack on her side so she could eventually infiltrate the Losties’ camp. She hates him because he won’t let her leave, but back at that point, she still thought he had the power to send her home. On an unrelated note, I’m thinking the Others have flash-forwards like Desmond does, and are able to use them to better manipulate the Losties. [/QUOTE] Maybe, though this is somewhat less plausible than what we’ve already seen. I’m postulating that the _Lost_ writers are talented enough and familiar enough with the tenets of good storytelling that this sort of double-secret fake-out–where one conspiracy is built on a hazier conspiracy that is built on an impossibly-overarching conspiracy, all designed simply to jerk the audience around–is beneath them. On the scale of good drama, such a move by the writers would fall somewhere between “They’re all dead and this is the afterlife” and “It’s all a dream”. Yes, _Lost_ has introduced lots of weirdness, but I’m betting the writers know they can’t totally fake-out the audience and keep the momentum going. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/126 "2007-05-03T21:28:03Z")
Hampshire - good point. hope Locke is istill infiltrating Oh and I just came back in to say - didn’t Josh Holloway (I think that’s the name of the actor who plays Sawyer; can’t look up right now) do a Fantastic acting job last night?! I think the episode was a real challenge, and wow, he was up to it. For someone with a pretty thin acting resume pre-Lost, he sure is doing a great job. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/127 "2007-05-03T21:36:07Z")
[QUOTE=phungi] After catching up, I forgot about this post… doesn’t it seem that Juliet was merely conning Jack by making it _appear_ she wanted Ben dead? [/QUOTE] Again–as I responded in #125–this requires a level of fake-out that elements of the story just don’t support; what about her performance makes you doubt her? It seems, from the episode where Juliet proposes killing Ben in the video–that Juliet is taking real precautions to avoid having Ben find out about her plan. If Ben were in on it, I’d think as a part of the con he’d make sure that he saw all the details (e.g. having a hidden camera behind Jack so he could see the video and match it up with Jack’s reaction), just to be sure he himself wasn’t being conned. I guess it’s possible this is the case, and that the writers have planned this kind of fake-out from the beginning of the season, but given the quality of recent _Lost_ episodes, I can’t believe the writers would take the chance of losing the goodwill with the audience by essentailly saying “Ha ha, you thought you knew what was going on, but nope, it’s completely the opposite; none of the quality episodes you watched were important, it was all a con.” ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/128 "2007-05-03T21:43:57Z")
[QUOTE=well he’s back] Oh and I just came back in to say - didn’t Josh Holloway (I think that’s the name of the actor who plays Sawyer; can’t look up right now) do a Fantastic acting job last night?! I think the episode was a real challenge, and wow, he was up to it. For someone with a pretty thin acting resume pre-Lost, he sure is doing a great job. [/QUOTE] I completely agree. The challenge there was to show the rage building. For the sake of the story, it is fortunate that Sawyer had killed the wrong man before; this justified his careful yet seething questioning of Cooper. When he finally makes the decision to kill him, the revenge motive is clear, yet Sawyer is almost mechanical in his approach; someone called it “cold-blooded” earlier, and while that’s not exactly right, I think the killing is closer to that than it would be to call it a crime of passion. Cooper’s performance was also well-done, completely understandable for a man who has no idea what’s going on–who, perhaps, could believe he’s in hell. Completely honest with his feeling no matter how brutal. Casually summarizing the remainder of Sawyer’s letter as “blah blah blah”, then tearing it up with an emotionless shrug were perfect details; the actor (wish I knew his name) hit the perfect note for that character. ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/129 "2007-05-03T21:46:56Z")
[QUOTE=CJJ\*] Cooper’s performance was also well-done, completely understandable for a man who has no idea what’s going on–who, perhaps, could believe he’s in hell. Completely honest with his feeling no matter how brutal. Casually summarizing the remainder of Sawyer’s letter as “blah blah blah”, then tearing it up with an emotionless shrug were perfect details; the actor (wish I knew his name) hit the perfect note for that character. [/QUOTE] I think Cooper is played by Kevin Tighe, who used to be on the old series “Emergency.” ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/130 "2007-05-03T21:57:36Z")
[QUOTE=Antigen] On an unrelated note, I’m thinking the Others have flash-forwards like Desmond does, and are able to use them to better manipulate the Losties. [/QUOTE] Maybe all of them except for Ethan. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/131 "2007-05-03T22:01:35Z")
[QUOTE=CJJ\*] the actor (wish I knew his name) hit the perfect note for that character. [/QUOTE] Except for his poor Strother Martin impression. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/132 "2007-05-03T22:16:08Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I don’t think Kate knows what she wants, but she doesn’t want anyone else to have something (or someone) that she _might_ want. She wants both Jack and Sawyer to chase after her, and then she’ll push them away when they try to get too close. In fact she’s just like… well, you’re probably not interested in that story. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Every woman throughout time? -Joe, sexist ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/133 "2007-05-03T22:50:15Z")
[QUOTE=pinkfreud] I think Cooper is played by Kevin Tighe, who used to be on the old series “Emergency.” [/QUOTE] It hardly seems fair that he is getting all that work and yet there’s no love for Randolph Mantooth. Maybe he’ll be Jacob. ---
**Author:** ![Alma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Alma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alma)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/134 "2007-05-03T23:03:53Z")
[QUOTE=well he’s back] Oh and I just came back in to say - didn’t Josh Holloway (I think that’s the name of the actor who plays Sawyer; can’t look up right now) do a Fantastic acting job last night?! I think the episode was a real challenge, and wow, he was up to it. For someone with a pretty thin acting resume pre-Lost, he sure is doing a great job. [/QUOTE] I have to admit, I have never been a huge Sawyer fan (nigh-unforgivable amongst my friends), but Josh Holloway’s remarkable performance made me appreciate not just the actor, but the _character_ so much more. When Locke said that there was nothing in the file about why his father killed his mother and then himself–there was so much anguish and fear and hatred and anger all contained in one fixed stare. Now I don’t know who’s the better actor, Josh Holloway or Naveen Andrews. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/135 "2007-05-04T01:30:43Z")
I’m wondering if it’s more than just coincidence that we have 2 new people (Cooper and Naomi) arriving on the island at about the same time. Just a thought… And whoever thought they saw military vehicles in the previews-- I watched it in slow-mo and what you saw was 3 or 4 Dharma Vans. Just like the one that Hurley got working a few episodes ago. I think there’s a good chance that in next week’s episode (sort of a spoiler, but just that I know the title): which is called “the man behind the curtain”… will this be Ben’s backstory and the history of the Dharma initiative on The Island? It’s funny that so many people like Hollaway’s acting. I’ve always thought he was one of the worst actors on the show. Of course, it would help if the writers didn’t have him saying “son of a…” every time he opens his mouth. I just don’t see a lot of range there-- he’s always “angry guy”. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/136 "2007-05-04T02:49:09Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Oh, man, I _loved_ the little moment between Locke and Rousseau. I was giggling like a six-year-old. It was just so… they’re both basically crazy at this point, right? So they just have this moment of recognition and acknowledgement; Locke understands that Rousseau is going to do something crazy with the dynamite, and Rousseau understands that Locke is _currently_ doing something crazy involving the screaming man in the brig. So it’s almost like they both pause during a busy day at the Office of Being Crazy, working on their own separate crazy tasks, to acknowledge one another. Certainly they’d never dream of interfering with one another; professional courtesy, don’t you know? [/QUOTE] Well put. It was just sort of a water-cooler break at Nutjobs, Inc. I loved that little encounter, too. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/137 "2007-05-04T02:59:31Z")
[QUOTE=Hampshire] I picture a season finale that resembles the end of **Caddyshack**. Big tense moment between Locke and Ben going on when all of the sudden everything starts exploding ala the gopher. All done to the tune of the 1812 Overture. [/QUOTE] And then Ben pops out of a hole singing, “I’m allllll-right! Don’t nobody worry 'bout me!” > [@John Mace](#): > > Of course, we may eventually see The Others going to their secret place of worship-- a temple with a giant statue of Hurley sitting in lotus position. Who knows where the writers are going to take the storyline… With the Hurley-Bird sitting on his shoulder. [QUOTE=Merijeek] I don’t think you “stole it”, it’s just my delicate ego getting brutally ignored by all them meanies in this tread. [/QUOTE] At least you didn’t get conned. (Or **did** you…? :dubious: ) ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/138 "2007-05-04T03:13:37Z")
[QUOTE=AuntiePam] That killing was a bit too cold-blooded for me, for this show. I’m hoping it was faked somehow, but it looked pretty real. [/QUOTE] I’m trying to understand this. What do mean by “real”? It’s a fictional tv show. Do you mean, did “Sawyer” (James Ford) really kill Cooper (“Tom Sawyer”) in the show? Sure looked like it; and one of the most justified murders I ever saw. I’d have killed him. So, apparently I’ve been right about Cooper being the original Sawyer all this time. Well, that’s one. The _Black Rock_ never made sense to me. Why was a mining outfit using a sailing ship, instead of a steamship, in the late 1860’s (or later; dynamite was patented in 1867)? And where was slavery still legal at that time? ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/139 "2007-05-04T03:15:41Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] (sort of a spoiler, but just that I know the title): which is called “the man behind the curtain”… will this be Ben’s backstory and the history of the Dharma initiative on The Island? [/QUOTE] Given that title for next week’s episode, I’m wondering if it means… maybe we’ll find out something about Jacob? Is he the “man behind the curtain”? The secret dude running OtherCult? ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452/140 "2007-05-04T03:37:29Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] I’m trying to understand this. What do mean by “real”? It’s a fictional tv show. Do you mean, did “Sawyer” (James Ford) really kill Cooper (“Tom Sawyer”) in the show? Sure looked like it; and one of the most justified murders I ever saw. I’d have killed him. [/QUOTE] I know it’s not “real” real. 🙂 After thinking more about it, this particular killing bothers me because Ben and Locke and Sawyer spent time thinking about it. Cooper was defenseless. Ben having him killed as a challenge to Locke was sick. Locke putting Sawyer in with Cooper was sick, not just because he’s using a surrogate killer but because because Sawyer now has to live with the fact that he murdered a man who couldn’t fight back. We saw how it affected him. Locke doesn’t care what it does to Sawyer – he got his trophy. That was cold. My memory might be wrong, but most of the killings we’ve seen til now were done quickly, spur of the moment, in self-defense or by accident/mistake. We haven’t seen an Other or a Lostie or a Tailie deliberately kill someone who couldn’t fight back, have we? As much as it bothers me, I’m looking forward to seeing what Sawyer does now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-19-the-brig/402452.md?page=8)