# Lost 3.20: "The Man Behind the Curtain" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 9, 2007, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398 "2007-05-09T15:10:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/81 "2007-05-10T04:17:01Z")
I often have difficulty accepting certain actors in new roles if I have a strong mental image of them in earlier roles. In this episode, I couldn’t help seeing Ben’s father as the super-genius Laszlo who lived between the walls of the dorm in _Real Genius_. And Horace was the sadistic guard Percy Wetmore from _The Green Mile_. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/82 "2007-05-10T04:20:51Z")
> [@](#): > > No it was pointless filler. Just because something that’s seen in one episode turns up in another episode doesn’t make the filler stuff any more interesting. It did for me. > [@](#): > > Good writers cut out all the extraneous crap and leave only what’s necessary to tell the story. But, of course, we’re talking about TV writing here. Exactly. Writing for TV isn’t like writing a short story or writing a novel–it allows for a lot more diversion and digression, because there usually isn’t just one story being told. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/83 "2007-05-10T04:25:05Z")
[QUOTE=pinkfreud] I often have difficulty accepting certain actors in new roles if I have a strong mental image of them in earlier roles. In this episode, I couldn’t help seeing Ben’s father as the super-genius Laszlo who lived between the walls of the dorm in _Real Genius_. And Horace was the sadistic guard Percy Wetmore from _The Green Mile_. [/QUOTE] Wow. I guess I don’t have that problem since I don’t recognize people that easily in new roles. I just knew they looked familiar. At first viewing I thought Jacob looked like Tom. Then everytime someone suggested someone else, he started looking like that person. I guess I am too easily suggestible. Speaking of Tom, since we have had speculation that he’s gay, maybe Richard is his beau? ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/84 "2007-05-10T04:25:20Z")
One thing’s for sure. The Others have either killed Jack and replaced him, or put someone else’s brain in his body or something. The old Jack would never ever in a million years suggest that they all sit down and catch up on things. None of the Losties would. If they did that, they would have figured it all out and would be on there way home by now. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/85 "2007-05-10T04:31:38Z")
[QUOTE=Monstre] Just went back and looked at the beginning. Ben’s dad says something that sounds like, “Thanks again for the opportunity, Mr. Goodspeed”. (That might not be it, but it wasn’t Goodwin – definitely had an S in it). [/QUOTE] Yeah the closed captioning said “Mr. Goodspeed”…which I found to be a really weird name. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/86 "2007-05-10T04:40:31Z")
I wonder if that perimeter of dust was supposed to be volcanic ash. There was a bit in the classroom flashback where the teacher was making a volcano – and Annie asks about the volcano on this island. (“But that was a very long time ago…”) ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/87 "2007-05-10T04:41:45Z")
[QUOTE=ZipperJJ] Yeah the closed captioning said “Mr. Goodspeed”…which I found to be a really weird name. [/QUOTE] Maybe none of the Dharma people used their real names. What was the name of the Asian doctor on the training videos? Wasn’t an Asian name. Not that that’s conclusive, but put up against “Goodspeed” it could represent a trend… ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/88 "2007-05-10T04:49:36Z")
[QUOTE=pinkfreud] I often have difficulty accepting certain actors in new roles if I have a strong mental image of them in earlier roles. In this episode, I couldn’t help seeing Ben’s father as the super-genius Laszlo who lived between the walls of the dorm in _Real Genius_. And Horace was the sadistic guard Percy Wetmore from _The Green Mile_. [/QUOTE] I’m kind of the same way, but I pegged the two guys as Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite and Eugene Tooms from the X-Files. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/89 "2007-05-10T04:54:04Z")
nifty episode 😃 I watched it with my boyfriend on speakerphone (watching shows together from several states away is always entertaining) ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/90 "2007-05-10T04:59:46Z")
[QUOTE=Fiver] Maybe none of the Dharma people used their real names. What was the name of the Asian doctor on the training videos? Wasn’t an Asian name. [/QUOTE] Marvin Candle or Mark Wickman, depending on which orientation video you want to believe (Swan, Pearl). ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/91 "2007-05-10T05:04:08Z")
Doesn’t the reveal of this episode, that all the Dharma-ites were killed off, seem to make the all the Dharma stuff superfluous? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/92 "2007-05-10T05:19:37Z")
[QUOTE=Wile E] Doesn’t the reveal of this episode, that all the Dharma-ites were killed off, seem to make the all the Dharma stuff superfluous? [/QUOTE] Perhaps not. There’s no reason to believe that the “hostiles” who became the Others weren’t just another group of Dharma-ites. Perhaps an earlier, failed, iteration of the social experiment. As a side note, it’s pretty clear that Kelvin was a part of the Dharma group who were betrayed by Benry. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/93 "2007-05-10T05:49:34Z")
[QUOTE=Omniscient] Perhaps not. There’s no reason to believe that the “hostiles” who became the Others weren’t just another group of Dharma-ites. Perhaps an earlier, failed, iteration of the social experiment. As a side note, it’s pretty clear that Kelvin was a part of the Dharma group who were betrayed by Benry. [/QUOTE] Well, obviously Ben’s dad (and later Ben, also a “Work Man”) knew about some of the stations – sounds like they made supply runs to the Flame frequently. But I wonder if they knew about the Swan? Because Kelvin was in there, and I wonder how much Kelvin knew about what was going on “outside”, in Dharma Central? Sounds like they were cooped up in the Swan without much outside contact, because Kelvin lasted a good while down there, after the Hostiles purged the Dharmites. He was definitely down there until the day the Losties’ plane crashed – when he died – and Desmond was in there with him for his last 3 years. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/94 "2007-05-10T05:52:35Z")
Freaky. Ass. Episode. My roommate and I were speculating that Ben talking to Jacob _was_ just an act for Locke and that he can’t actually hear him. Michael Emerson is IMO good enough of an actor to play a bad actor, and it certainly seemed like he was improvising a one-sided conversation. Maybe that’s just me setting too high an expectation, though. I really have no respect left for Kate, and damn near none for Jack. Locke may have left the community, but at least his actions for the most part don’t affect the community. Jack’s refusing to be a part of it, but his actions ARE affecting the community. Even if his intentions are benign, he’s jerking everyone around. > [@Monstre](#): > > But I wonder if they knew about the Swan? Ben certainly knew about the Swan when he and Juliet visited the Pearl while Paolo was in the bathroom. Hard to say when he found out about it; the timeline is spread out enough for either possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/95 "2007-05-10T05:59:30Z")
[QUOTE=Wile E] Doesn’t the reveal of this episode, that all the Dharma-ites were killed off, seem to make the all the Dharma stuff superfluous? [/QUOTE] Someone is still making air drops of Dharma supplies, so there must be some existing form of Dharma somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![lexan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/73ab20/32.png) [@lexan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/96 "2007-05-10T06:04:33Z")
[QUOTE=Monstre] But I wonder if they knew about the Swan? [/QUOTE] I can’t find a decent picture, but I thought the jumpsuit he was wearing in the last scene (and when Hurley found his body) had the Swan symbol in the Dharma logo. I may be wrong about that, though. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/97 "2007-05-10T06:11:07Z")
[QUOTE=Tangent] Someone is still making air drops of Dharma supplies, so there must be some existing form of Dharma somewhere. [/QUOTE] Right, this is what I can’t figure out. (Everything else I’ve got totally figured out of course… 😛 ) Why are there still food drops? Right now my idea is that the two groups (DI and the Hostiles) were both put there by the same people, as part of a single experiment. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/98 "2007-05-10T06:15:15Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] Why are there still food drops? [/QUOTE] Mikhail? The hostiles seem to be interested in at least putting up a Dharma facade, as Mikhail does, and he is/was the communications dude. He could have been feeding mainland Dharma false info. That’s just a theory, but if it’s accurate, it makes me wonder if there’ll be any more food drops now. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/99 "2007-05-10T06:20:09Z")
And Michael Emerson’s wife (Carrie Preston) played his mother. Very Oedipal. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/100 "2007-05-10T06:23:18Z")
Ben is one of the best villains, as someone noted earlier. He’s very, very sharp, and that makes him far more dangerous than most. And to have the will to kill everyone in the compound clearly shows that he will do absolutely anything. “I did what I had to do.” I really felt for young Ben. To be told that your own birth killed your mother and it’s all your fault…that’s horrendous. So…did he ever actually get to be with her at some point? We don’t know anything of his adolescence. “Mrs. Kwon…” ? Come on, Sawyer, you can come up with better names than that–but maybe when you’re in a better mood. Locke, you’d better hurry up and heal. If not, what a gruesome place to meet your end. Damn good stuff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398.md?page=6)