# Lost 3.20: "The Man Behind the Curtain" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 9, 2007, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398 "2007-05-09T15:10:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/101 "2007-05-10T10:34:46Z")
[QUOTE=DoctorJ] I know a lot of people thought Hurley’s microbus episode was pointless filler…guess not. [/quote] How do you figure? Did that episode in any way impact the story being told in this episode? Would this episode be perceived differently at all if the van episode had never existed? For what it’s worth, I’m not horribly against the van episode or anything, but saying that it wasn’t filler just because it contained a reference to, but had no bearing on, this story seems wrong to me. ---
**Author:** ![running\_piglet\_cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/22d042/32.png) [@running\_piglet\_cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_piglet_cheese)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/102 "2007-05-10T11:11:45Z")
Projection or not, I still think Jacob is a manifestation of Ben’s mind. The “Help me” came as Locke’s back was turned so it could have been a split personality voice from Ben. The rumbling and breakage could be ascribed to telekinetic power by Ben. He’s just crazy enough to have a separate personality who is crying out for help. Also, I see a connection between his mother’s death at childbirth with the death of pregnant women on the island. How long did Juliet say the women lived after becoming pregnant? Where were Jack and Juliet and did they abduct Naomi? ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/103 "2007-05-10T11:30:29Z")
A couple quick speculations: 1)Whatever effect the island has that heals people also keeps them young. 2)Whatever effect keeps them young makes their spirits stick around after death. 3)Eventually, bad or troubled spirits become part of the Smoke Monster. 4)The original Hostiles are survivors of an Atlantis-like lost civilization who had powerful psychic abilities. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/104 "2007-05-10T11:50:53Z")
Very trippy. I kept saying that Locke was trying to out-Ben Ben, if you know what I mean, but that things never turn out quite right for Locke. So we’re left wondering what Richard’s role in this is. I don’t think there’s an anti-aging thing going on, else Ben would still be a 10-year-old kid. But the writers obviously have more Ben backstory to fill in later. The grey dust did make me think of the TCM. Did anyone catch the numbers that young Ben used to disarm the sonic fence? I think I saw a 4 and a 5, but it didn’t seem like the whole code consisted of “the numbers”. I can’t believe that Locke is actually dead, and I’m not sure Ben actually wants him dead. He’s to smart to just leave him there to die and not know that he might not die. Now, if Jack Bauer had been on the island: \* Jack: Shoot him again Ben!\* That was probably my favorite “24” moment, when Jack, like any good father, tells Kim she has to shoot the bad guy “again”. ---
**Author:** ![Farmwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@Farmwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmwoman)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/105 "2007-05-10T12:11:40Z")
While I agree Hurley’s Van wasn’t crucial to this episode, it certainly added stylish texture and interest to it. Everything about the van (Roger Work Man, the beer, its location on the mesa) could have been retrofitted into last night’s script, so there’s no real reason to believe the Van episode was a grand setup for “The Man Behind the Curtain”, but that it fit so seamlessly is the real beauty of the extended exposition of Lost. This _complicated_ weave is one of the things that make this show at once fun to watch and frustrating as hell, and before we had a known end date for the series the latter usually won out over the former. Now I’m willing to be Lost’s bitch and inspect, but not be distracted or annoyed by threads that seem superfluous or dropped. They may appear again as major motifs, they may appear again only to add interest, texture or color, or they may have been inserted, like a bead or a sequin, just to make the viewer say “oh! Look! Something shiney!” Some thoughts: Richard needs to loosen up, chuck the suit, and grow his hair out again. (pant, pant) His hostile jungle look was yummy enough to make me forget his perma-eyeliner. Who were the natives following, or to put it in another way, who was talking to Jacob before Ben showed incredible patience? Was it Richard, and did he lose the position to Ben? Ben said he was the only one who had ever seen Jacob, so Richard’s presence predating Ben’s really has me wondering. Kate’s a whiney moron. She tells Sayid, all proud and self-righteous, that the reason she told Jack about Naomi was because he’s a doctor and Naomi needed medical attention. Her head is so far up her skinny ass she can’t even recognize her mistake in the face of Jack, upon hearing about the medical emergency, goes promptly for a long walk with Juliet in the jungle. :smack: I spent most of this season looking forward to Ben’s backstory. Now I can’t wait for Richard’s. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/106 "2007-05-10T12:46:16Z")
[QUOTE=RikWriter] A couple quick speculations: 1)Whatever effect the island has that heals people also keeps them young. 2)Whatever effect keeps them young makes their spirits stick around after death. 3)Eventually, bad or troubled spirits become part of the Smoke Monster. 4)The original Hostiles are survivors of an Atlantis-like lost civilization who had powerful psychic abilities. [/QUOTE] Oh, and also, Ben is an incredible hypocrite. “We don’t kill people.” Yeah, except for dozens of Dharma employees, including his own father. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/107 "2007-05-10T12:49:35Z")
I don’t really know anything here, but I’m going to throw out some wild-ass speculation. Locke is dead. And when we finally get a good look at Jacob, he will have Locke’s form. Just think - only 50 episodes left. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/108 "2007-05-10T12:56:47Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I don’t think there’s an anti-aging thing going on, else Ben would still be a 10-year-old kid. [/QUOTE] I just want to point out since several people have mentioned Richard not aging, Horace didn’t age, either. After Ben had gassed the village and was walking through it, Horace was dead on the bench and he looked exactly the same as when Ben first showed up on the island. There’s definitely some sort of anti-aging thing going on. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/109 "2007-05-10T12:59:41Z")
[QUOTE=Turek] There’s definitely some sort of anti-aging thing going on. [/QUOTE] Except it seems to be inconsistent. It certainly looked to me that Ben’s father aged. Or maybe it was all that beer. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/110 "2007-05-10T13:05:05Z")
[QUOTE=Turek] I just want to point out since several people have mentioned Richard not aging, Horace didn’t age, either. After Ben had gassed the village and was walking through it, Horace was dead on the bench and he looked exactly the same as when Ben first showed up on the island. There’s definitely some sort of anti-aging thing going on. [/QUOTE] I think his name was Horex. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/111 "2007-05-10T13:06:07Z")
[QUOTE=Trion] I don’t really know anything here, but I’m going to throw out some wild-ass speculation. Locke is dead. And when we finally get a good look at Jacob, he will have Locke’s form. Just think - only 50 episodes left. [/QUOTE] I don’t think Locke is dead. The previews for the finale says it’s a struggle between Jack and Locke for control of the Losties. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/112 "2007-05-10T13:07:47Z")
[QUOTE=RikWriter] I don’t think Locke is dead. The previews for the finale says it’s a struggle between Jack and Locke for control of the Losties. [/QUOTE] Dude, previews lie worse than Ben. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/113 "2007-05-10T13:22:47Z")
[QUOTE=RikWriter] I don’t think Locke is dead. The previews for the finale says it’s a struggle between Jack and Locke for control of the Losties. [/QUOTE] Er. . . [spoiler]mine says: Jack and the castaways begin their efforts to make contact with Naomi’s rescue ship, on the seasonfinale of “Lost,” from the ABC press release.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![wasson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/4da419/32.png) [@wasson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wasson)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/114 "2007-05-10T13:28:07Z")
So, do we have a better handle now on what the hell Dharma is doing there? And what about Jacob? Is he a ghost or sumptin’? ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/115 "2007-05-10T13:28:42Z")
[QUOTE=RikWriter] I don’t think Locke is dead. The previews for the finale says it’s a struggle between Jack and Locke for control of the Losties. [/QUOTE] I’ve seen that on some spoiler sites but nothing official. Other sites say… that the conflict is between Jack and Sawyer. As for Locke being dead… He was just talking to Ben, we know some people (Locke included) heal rapidly on the Island and, as we were reminded in this episode, Mikhail was left for dead but recovered. I suspect Locke will recover in a few episodes, return and then Ben will _really_ have a problem on his hands. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/116 "2007-05-10T13:39:33Z")
[QUOTE=tanstaafl] As for Locke being dead… He was just talking to Ben [/QUOTE] Ben: You didn’t have to beat Mikhail senseless. Locke: Yes, I did. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/117 "2007-05-10T13:41:15Z")
I haven’t seen anyone mention it, but at the very beginning, when Ben tells Richard it’s his birthday, he says something along the lines of, “You do remember what those are, right?” That struck me as real odd, and my wife said, “Maybe he doesn’t age at all.” I snorted and dismissed the idea, once again revealing who the smart one in the family is. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/118 "2007-05-10T14:10:13Z")
So how many days have past since Walt and Michael were set free and Naomi landed on the island? You’d think that if Walt and Michael really made it off it would have been all over the news : “Survivors found from plane crash where all were presumed dead” and Naomi would have heard about it. Or did they never make it home? Or did they make it home but kept their promise to never tell anyone about the island? If Richard is an original Hostile are any members of the Others original Hostiles or were they all recruited via Richard/Ben post the Dharma village massacre. Is Richard still using Dharma as a front to recruit people to the island? I don’t remember if Juliet got recruited through a Dharma related company or not. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/119 "2007-05-10T14:14:41Z")
[QUOTE=Hampshire] Is Richard still using Dharma as a front to recruit people to the island? I don’t remember if Juliet got recruited through a Dharma related company or not. [/QUOTE] Richard and Ethan recruited her to join Mittelos Bioscience, which they originally claimed was in Portland. ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398/120 "2007-05-10T14:19:28Z")
I’m beginning to think that “Lost” is a grand episode of “Scooby-Do” with Vincent as Scooby. What’s got me thinking this is the ring of dust around Jacob’s shack. That’s what’s keeping him, or his **GHOST!!** , prisoner there. (Look for a resurrected Locke to go back there and clear a space in the circle for Jacob’s **GHOST!!** to exit.) Other people on the island are seeing **GHOSTS!!** too. Jack saw his dad. Ben saw his mom. Hurley saw that Dave guy who could be dead. Didn’t Kate see a horse she once had, which may be dead? Mikhail’s resurrection, real or not, seemed to tease this **GHOST!!** possibilty. But remember, at the end of those “Scooby Do’s” it always turned out to be a con, and the **GHOSTS!!** weren’t real. It’s either that or the island is the place that Og sends con artists with parental issues to wait out eternity. It’s one or the other. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-20-the-man-behind-the-curtain/403398.md?page=7)