# Lost 3.3: Further Instructions **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 18, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976 "2006-10-18T18:24:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/81 "2006-10-19T19:26:22Z")
[QUOTE=Monstre] Not sure – I barely even remembered that incident from last season, until somebody in last week’s thread mentioned something about “the guy Kate shot” – then I had to think for a minute to recall when that was. [/QUOTE] Kate pulled Sawyer aside and told him they were being followed. She pointed out two guys (IIRC, across the stream) and told him to fall back with her and shoot when she gave the signal. They both shot at the same time. One guy fell dead and the other Other got away. And that incident, btw, lead them to realize that Jack deliberately led them into a trap since he knew Michaeal was, well, leading them into a trap. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/82 "2006-10-19T19:32:04Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Maybe The Others are a remnant Civil War population… [/QUOTE] Or some of the workers are the descendants of the original _Black Rock_ slaves. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/83 "2006-10-19T19:34:10Z")
[QUOTE=Draelin] Or some of the workers are the descendants of the original _Black Rock_ slaves. [/QUOTE] I was just joking, of course, but your suggestion might very well be true. I suspect that there has been a human presence on this island (if only on-and-off) since Classical times-- hence the statue. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/84 "2006-10-19T19:49:06Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I was just joking, of course, but your suggestion might very well be true. [/QUOTE] And I laughed, and then went _Hey … wait!_ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/85 "2006-10-19T20:05:10Z")
[QUOTE=Grendel’s Father] Good question? I don’t do any of that and I still enjoy the show. Recognizing that all that extra stuff is just marketing, I figure equating it with the show itself is bound to make me jaded to the point of losing interest. So I don’t bother with it (except hunting for clues on the internet–that was kinda fun!). Do you have to own all 6,000 releases of the DVD with slightly different bonus features to be a fan of Star Wars? At some point the peripheral stuff starts to _detract_ from the thing it’s promoting, and you just have to ignore it. They’re never going to put anything crucial to the plot on the morning show, and anything interesting enough to be on the show will ultimately be there, not on the secret web sites. [/QUOTE] Yes, but Lost is a _mystery_. The entire point of the show is to divvy out clues so that the audience can figure out what’s going on. Hawking the 5th rerelease of a 20 year old movie trilogy is quite a different being than an on-going program hawking “extra clues” to people if they get a credit card. If I’m reading Agatha Christie, I don’t want to be told to go to [www.agatha.com](http://www.agatha.com) to register for the ability to read “extra scenes” of the latest Miss Marple epic. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/86 "2006-10-19T20:10:21Z")
[QUOTE=av8rmike] The sobering part is Lindelof’s comment: “But the pragmatic reality of the network television business is we don’t own the show. We don’t get to decide when the show ends. […] it will no longer be great when it’s been going on too long. So there is almost an inevitable moment that will occur when the show should have ended and didn’t.” The sad truth there is that how they _want_ to end the show, and the way it might actually end, could be two vastly different things. [/QUOTE] Seems like weak BS to me. They could work out the original storylines and add in new ones. That way there’s actually closure on the old stuff and people can find some satisfaction. Sounds to me like they’re laying the groundwork for “The network made us ruin what should have been the bestest show ever!” -Joe ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/87 "2006-10-19T20:11:06Z")
Yaknow…I was just thinking about Locke being “not a murderer.” I think he does end up shooting Eddie in that flashback. Because when he and Charlie were bear-and-Eko-hunting, he blindly threw a knife at a rustling in the leaves. It coulda been Eko. If I were Locke I would have said “hello?” first. To, you know, make sure the rustling wasn’t the man they were hunting instead of assuming it was the bear they were hunting. So I think Locke is very capible of killing when he’s scared, and is not as rational as we’d like to believe (I still like Locke and think he’s more rational than Jack…but that’s not worth much). I think this will be shown in the shooting of Eddie. Luckilly for Hurley he, seems to be protected by dumb luck of some sort. Or the admiration of millions of Lost fans 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/88 "2006-10-19T20:26:00Z")
[QUOTE=ZipperJJ] Luckilly for Hurley he, seems to be protected by dumb luck of some sort. Or the admiration of millions of Lost fans 🙂 [/QUOTE] Actually, that is the one thing we’ve seen so far that’s been completely consistent - horrible things happen around Hurley due to The Numbers but he always comes out fine. Remember how hard his luck tried to keep him off the plane? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/89 "2006-10-19T20:33:46Z")
[QUOTE=Monstre] Maybe it’s not really an island at all, but attached to a mainland somewhere. [/QUOTE] I wish Sayid, Sun and Jin had used the sailboat just to circle the island and map it. For one thing, they might have discovered the Others’ village, and who knows what else? ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Bongo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a9adbd/32.png) [@Winston\_Bongo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Bongo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/90 "2006-10-19T20:34:00Z")
I’m surprised so many people seem to like the idea of Locke shooting a guy in the back. And a _cop_, too! I predict we’ll find out the cop did get killed, but by someone else at the commune. Whatever that was all about. And does anyone know who Kate shot? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/91 "2006-10-19T20:35:56Z")
Skimming thru the comments here, I’m finding myself agreeing with the folks who think the show has gotten too dense for its own good. The writers are like bad jugglers with too many balls in the air: Since they know they can’t catch them all, they throw new ones up hoping to distract the audience away from the ones they have to let bounce. The key for me–at this point–is to end some of the longer-running mysteries with these six episodes. Top of the list is to explain once and for all who the Others are: I’m not looking for an air-tight, all-questions-settled explanation (the Internet has proven there is no such thing in the world of fastidious message-board analysis), but something I can use to judge the plausibility of future events. The problem with mysterious motives is that, sometimes, they are used as a crutch for bad story development; at some point you need to commit to certain options or the audience starts suspecting there’s no “there” there (see: X-files). Making the Others actions somewhat predictable would limit the possible plotlines and make the show a little bit more enjoyable to watch. I don’t think solving this particular mystery means the show has to become utterly predictable, but some predictability at this point would be appreciated; I feel like I’m being jerked around, and I’m not likely to keep watching if it continues. Last night’s episode was partially a return to the kind of character exploration that first attracted me to “Lost”, the contrast of current events in a character’s live with flashbacks from their past. For all the problems last season, the study of Locke’s character was one of the high points, how this supposed strong-warrior figure–cheated by life in ways (wheelchair, bastard father) that never allowed his true talents to shine–was actually a frail, feet-of-clay leader who naturally makes bad decisions. It wasn’t the bad breaks that hid his light under a bushel–the Island effectively removed all of those–his weaknesses were all his own. Now, with the start of this season, we may be seeing Locke finding his footing again, strengthened by this knowledge of who he is. Why, oh why, can’t the writers find this depth of character with the other castaways? Some of this has been done with Jack–haphazardly in my opinion–and with Kate and Sawyer in the earlier part of the series. Hurley also seems to have been given possibilities, exposing how his past reactions to his personal image and the “curse of the money” still color his judgment of events on the island. But Jack’s flashbacks have merely shown him to be erratic–interesting but not yet compelling; maybe I’ll be surprised. Kate and Sawyer’s have become less frequent (more time needed to advance the “mysteries”, I guess). And it seems to me since the death of Libby Hurley’s character has been little more than a punchline (truly even before this, but the budding romance with Libby offered possibilities that now we’ll never see. Her death was a shortsighted decision by screenwriters more interested in getting quick buzz with an “unexpected twist” than developing a potentially great payoff a la Locke sheepishly admitting “I was wrong” as the hatch tears itself apart). The character stuff is what’s going to keep this series going, as the lingering mysteries, like party guests who can’t take a hint at 2AM, are starting to wear out their welcome. I sincerely doubt “everything is going to change” after episode 6, mainly because they’ve promised this before and not come thru. But even if they do, I wonder if this just means adding another layer of mystery on the tiring core (Penelope and the outside world, anyone?). I for one would like to see them settle the problems they have before introducing new ones (like Desmond’s newfound second sight; here’s hoping this little talent stays in the background for awhile), and I think the ratings prove that there are plenty of formerly regular viewers who feel the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/92 "2006-10-19T20:38:03Z")
Something about LOST has been nagging me for almost two years now (I got caught up during Christmas hiatus S.1). I get a Pitcairn vibe from it, and am speculating that being too small a community is what’s motivating the Others to get more material into their limited gene pool. Maybe they weren’t placed there by Hanso, but lived there and Hanso/Dharma arrived and exploited them. That would explain why they consider themselves as good guys, since, in fact, they are victims of the experiments carried out by D/H. As for this episode, it felt like a filler - “We need to get back to the beach and show what’s going on, even though we really want to stick with this brand new plot line. What can we do? Locke’s popularand wouldn’t it be dramatic if he went out to save someone, maybe Eko…? Well…” I liked that the Red Shirts were angry at Hurley for not sharing information. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/93 "2006-10-19T21:11:59Z")
[QUOTE=Charlie Tan] That would explain why they consider themselves as good guys, since, in fact, they are victims of the experiments carried out by D/H. [/QUOTE] Sure, especialy if, since they grew up on the island, nobody ever actually told them that murder, kidnapping and piracy aren’t the kind of things the good guys do. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/94 "2006-10-19T21:31:27Z")
Why didn’t Locke take a gun when he went hunting for the bear? Are all the guns gone, or did he feel like, after his sweat lodge experience, he had to go “_mano a cuchillo_” with the bear? And of course he ended up using a flame thrower anyway… ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/95 "2006-10-19T21:44:34Z")
[QUOTE=Charlie Tan] … I liked that the Red Shirts were angry at Hurley for not sharing information. [/QUOTE] I think the guy and girl that actually got to speak lines are going to be new characters. Of course that doesn’t mean they won’t suffer the red shirt fate eventually. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/96 "2006-10-19T21:52:22Z")
[QUOTE=Winston Bongo] I’m surprised so many people seem to like the idea of Locke shooting a guy in the back. And a _cop_, too! I predict we’ll find out the cop did get killed, but by someone else at the commune. Whatever that was all about. [/QUOTE] I tend to agree, but it’s not a lock (pardon the pun). Locke said that bad things happen to people who hang out with him, but that could have been the “bad thing” that happened to his fellow hippies, not the cop guy. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/97 "2006-10-19T22:16:10Z")
I think one of the things that’s going to hurt this show in the long run is the huge size of the cast. It can’t be cheap to pay all the actors on that show and keep them housed in Hawaii for shooting. When ratings are big they get a big budget. When ratings slide they have to make cuts. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/98 "2006-10-19T23:06:44Z")
Well, they’ve set things up so that it’s pretty easy to add or subtract characters. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/99 "2006-10-20T00:51:01Z")
[QUOTE=Charlie Tan] I liked that the Red Shirts were angry at Hurley for not sharing information. [/QUOTE] I’m unclear on how recently Hurley had returned to the beach. I got the impression that these first three episodes were happening concurrently, and the further impression that Hurley was still finding his way back when Locke stabbed his canteen. It seemed that “Why didn’t you tell us?!” could reasonably have been answered with, “Because I just now got here.” ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2006, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976/100 "2006-10-20T00:55:23Z")
I’ve got some questions: 1. Since when does a polar bear drag its intended meal into a cave and tie him up before tearing at him? Every nature special I’ve ever seen with polar bears, the polar bears just tear into dinner, manners be damned. 2. In Locke’s dream sequence in the airport, we see the cast members loosely paralleling their current situations–Sayid was behind Jin and Sun in line; Sawyer and Kate were next to each other in the security line while Ben Linus (in the security uniform) was wanding Jack. Hurley was dressed as an airline representative behind the computer monitor. What was the symbolism of their dream situations? I’ve been puzzling over that for some time. 3. I hope that Sawyer gets a few licks on Benjamin when he gets attacked. That prick has that coming to him. As far as the series goes, I’m gonna stick with it till the last scene airs, no matter how confusing it is. I’m not interested in shows that have to explain every last detail and teach flawed characters “life lessons”. Real life doesn’t tie everything together neatly and I like being able to draw my own conclusions. I only expect fictional television shows to whet my appetite to solve the mysteries, not tell me the one true ironclad resolution the producers had in mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-3-further-instructions/376976.md?page=6)