# Lost 3.4: Every Man for Himself **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 25, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881 "2006-10-25T19:39:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/61 "2006-10-26T05:51:30Z")
[QUOTE=Foldup Rabbit] Clementine is apparently Sawyer’s daughter. His ex-girlfriend/conbuddy/convictim brought him a picture of her when Costanza was visiting with his wife. Sawyer’s lady told him her name was Clementine, after which Sawyer denied having a daughter. What I want to know is which previous episode was titled, “Live Together, Die Alone”? [/QUOTE] No, I know that, I thought that from some other posts here that it was some big reveal and that we had heard mention of a Clementine in some previous episode, but perhaps I misread. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/62 "2006-10-26T06:08:52Z")
OK, I liked this episode a lot. It didn’t fit the usual pattern, and showed us some real weakness in The Others. A few notes: Benry says “the sub is back”, so we know they also have a sub. That would explain how they got to the dock unnoticed. And that would explain how Ethan killed Scott or Steve (remember, that happened in the water). Sawyer’s back story of him being in jail is a parallel to his curent situation. And note that “Costanza” had a prison number that consisted of “the numbers” but Sawyer didn’t. I’m not exactly sure what this means, but I think it’s significant. The X-rays were obviously of Benry, and that might be the thing that Jack has to do to win his freedom-- make The Others trust him enough that they let Jack operate on Benry. Juliet is a fertility doctor, re-enforcing that The Others are infertile. Was she an Other who was trained on the outside, or was she lured onto The Island, too. Also note that Jack is doing to The Others exactly what “Henry” did to the Lostaways when they had him captive-- try to sew unrest in his captors by making them resent being bossed around. Sawyer has a baby girl. Not! That’s part of the long con that the chick is pulling on him. Crazy prediction (of which my record is abysmal): Desmond is being set up by the writers to lead the Lostaways on some wild goose chase. They will be convinced that he has ESP or something, he’ll make some huge prediction that they will count on some way, and he’ll be dead wrong. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/63 "2006-10-26T06:32:54Z")
[QUOTE=Foldup Rabbit] What I want to know is which previous episode was titled, “Live Together, Die Alone”? [/QUOTE] Season 2 finale episode. It’s been a quote usedseveral times in different episodes-- in fact Kate says it in the pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/64 "2006-10-26T06:51:41Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] The X-rays were obviously of Benry, and that might be the thing that Jack has to do to win his freedom-- make The Others trust him enough that they let Jack operate on Benry. [/QUOTE] Why would you say it has to be Benry’s X-rays? I’m not so sure. Wouldn’t a large tumor on the lumbar vertebrae make walking a bit difficult? I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the Xray of some yet-unknown Fearless Leader lurking in shadows, running the show from his hospital bed. [QUOTE=John Mace] Juliet is a fertility doctor, re-enforcing that The Others are infertile. Was she an Other who was trained on the outside, or was she lured onto The Island, too. [/QUOTE] I caught the fertility thing too - part of her previous life, or is that her job associated with Dharma? Maybe that’s why they take the kids - because they can’t have any of their own and the Dharma team will die out if they can’t replace people. But then, I guess what’s getting to me is why they go to so much trouble… If they have contact with the outside world, getting supply drops and information, why can’t they get some newer medical equipment, or new recruits? ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/65 "2006-10-26T07:12:43Z")
[QUOTE=Monstre] So, nobody on Island #1 has ever seen Island #2? Does the little Alcatrazish island just move around and stay in Island #1’s blind spot? [/QUOTE] I was thinking the point was not just that they were moved to another island, it was also that for some reason people on the main island couldn’t see the secondary island. On the other hand, the maps Sayid took from Danielle seem to indicate some secondary islands. [QUOTE=Monstre] So, I assume the infamous dock that Michael sailed away from is actually on the original island. So at some point Jack, Kate, and Sawyer had to be moved to the other one. Wouldn’t they have realized if they were being moved on a boat? [/QUOTE] They were all drugged on the dock and woke up in their final destinations. Even so, being in a sub might not feel the same as a boat, and there is also the possibility that there is some kind of underwater tunnel. [QUOTE=Monstre] When the hell is somebody going to go all the way around the shoreline (or sail around it) to map out the entire island’s boundaries? [/QUOTE] Sayid has Danielle’s maps of the entire island. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/66 "2006-10-26T07:44:52Z")
[QUOTE=vivalostwages] How the heck long will it take Kate and Sawyer to figure out that everything they say and do is being monitored? [/QUOTE] Benry told Sawyer that they were monitoring him and Kate when he told him not to tell her what had happened or else they would do the same to her. That’s why he complied with his orders not to tell Kate about the monitoring and the ‘pacemaker’. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/67 "2006-10-26T09:39:36Z")
[QUOTE=Monstre] Now Benry’s going to have to force feed Kate lots of carbs and sweets, fatten her up so she can’t get through the cage again. [/QUOTE] Nah, that would kill the soap opera love triangle thing. A fat person can’t be the object of love/desire. [QUOTE=StarvingButStrong] Colleen then took another step towards Sun who pulled the trigger. [/QUOTE] I think it was the sound of the engine starting that startled her. Still, Colleen was just begging to get shot with her “you won’t kill me, you don’t have the guts, nyah nyah!” speech. It seems atypically dumb for Sawyer and Kate to have not figured out much earlier that they were being monitored. I would’ve assumed it in the first place - but after the incident where they turned off the power to foil Sawyer’s plan, it was pretty obvious. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/68 "2006-10-26T11:16:39Z")
[QUOTE=Dewey Finn] Who shot Colleen? Someone implied that it was one of the Losties, but I don’t remember that. [/QUOTE] Sun. On the boat. With a candlestick. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_Venom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9fc348/32.png) [@Lady\_Venom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_Venom)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/69 "2006-10-26T11:31:50Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Nah, that would kill the soap opera love triangle thing. A fat person can’t be the object of love/desire. [/QUOTE] Nice. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![PerditaX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@PerditaX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PerditaX)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/70 "2006-10-26T11:36:35Z")
[QUOTE=Antigen] And why abduct the kids? [/QUOTE] The Others obviously have some reproductive problems, or why would they need Juliet, who told Jack she was a “fertility doctor?” Maybe when that didn’t work, they decided to go for the direct approach, and just grab kids ready-made, and indoctrinate them into the Way of the Others? (It didn’t “take” with Waaaaaaaalt, so they let him go…) ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/71 "2006-10-26T12:02:39Z")
I didn’t hear the line about the sub. I just assumed there would be a tunnel between the two islands. ---
**Author:** ![rockle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/72 "2006-10-26T12:10:29Z")
[QUOTE=Antigen] Someone has to help me out with the golf club stuff - what was Desmond doing? drawing lightning to it, to protect Claire’s tent? His prophecy powers saw that she would be in danger, so he built a lightning rod? [/QUOTE] I wonder if a “Desmond episode” is going to be the last one before the hiatus. Because if he can see the future, and he behaves accordingly in the present, then won’t he _change_ the future? And how does he know that the changed future is going to be any better than the original one? (We’re getting into “Back to the Future” territory, I know.) [Quote=John Mace] Juliet is a fertility doctor, re-enforcing that The Others are infertile. Was she an Other who was trained on the outside, or was she lured onto The Island, too. [/quote] Not for nothing, because I know we’re dealing with “television reality” here, and not “actual reality” (to say nothing of “reality television,” which is _a whole 'nother_ animal), but … I don’t buy Juliet’s story. I mean, she could be an infertility “doctor,” but doctor of _what_? There are psychologists who deal with infertile couples – but they’re Ph.D.'s, not M.D., which could make them about as useful as a tutu in an operating room. And wouldn’t she refer to herself as a “reproductive endocrinologist”? I mean, it’s not like Jack refers to himself as a “back doctor.” _Plus_, the Others are a lying bunch of lying liars, as we already know. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/73 "2006-10-26T12:19:54Z")
[QUOTE=Achren] Nice to know Desmond can still see the future. [/QUOTE] Good. Then he can see me not watching him unless this show starts to pick it up a bit. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/74 "2006-10-26T12:26:59Z")
I have no problem with a second island – but I do have a problem with it not being spotted from either: The main beach The Tailies beach The beach with the power cable The dock The fake village The 4 toed statue (those last 3 are probably close together though) Brian ---
**Author:** ![Ultros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ultros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ultros)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/75 "2006-10-26T13:11:37Z")
[QUOTE=rockle] And wouldn’t she refer to herself as a “reproductive endocrinologist”? I mean, it’s not like Jack refers to himself as a “back doctor.” [/QUOTE] Especially to another doctor, it’s true. I just assumed the writers thought “reproductive endocrinologist” might be a little over-the-heads of the average television viewer. Jack is an idealistically hippocratic doctor. If it had been you, wouldn’t you have tried to bargain with them? “Oh, you want me to save the life of one of yours, eh? Let’s make a deal. Free me, or free my friends, or get me off this island, or just tell me who the hell you are and what they hell you’re all up to, or SOMETHING.” Question: lots of people keep referring to the Others as liars and killers. Now, I’m not exactly inclined to believe their “we’re not killers” line either, but every time they say that I keep reluctantly thinking “they’re telling the truth there, aren’t they?” I didn’t start watching until beginning of 2nd season, so I may have missed something, but do we know the Others have actually killed anyone (except for Ethan and Scott/Steve, which was an episode I didn’t see, but as I understand it the killing wasn’t clearly depicted and could have been in self-defense) or come close to doing so, in a non-self-defense situation? ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/76 "2006-10-26T13:19:06Z")
I think Sawyer and Kate were taken to reproduce. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/77 "2006-10-26T13:31:21Z")
[QUOTE=Ultros] Now, I’m not exactly inclined to believe their “we’re not killers” line either, but every time they say that I keep reluctantly thinking “they’re telling the truth there, aren’t they?” [/QUOTE] Nope, they’re lying. The tailies had quite a few people killed on their first or second night on the island, and the person who infiltrated the tailies killed one person in cold blood (the first guy thrown in the pit). The Lostaways had one person killed in the first few nights, and the Others kidnapped Claire and attempted to kill Charlie (he wasn’t breathing when found). ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/78 "2006-10-26T13:34:50Z")
[QUOTE=PerditaX] The Others obviously have some reproductive problems, or why would they need Juliet, who told Jack she was a “fertility doctor?” [/QUOTE] Not necessarily. Maybe she was a fertility doc back home, but here she’s just helping the polar bears reproduce in captivity or something. I don’t think we can pin it all to “the Others have fertility problems”, because why in the world would they need to be reproducing? They’re out on this island in a little isolated community, doing secret things, but they still have contact with the outside. They have boats. It’s not like they’re in a starship in interstallar space with no chance of replacing crew as they die off. There’s no _need_ to have the Others reproducing - it doesn’t make sense. Either she’s been working with the animals, or the Others are working on baby projects, trying to develop a Superbaby of some kind. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/79 "2006-10-26T13:37:52Z")
[QUOTE=Barbarian] Nope, they’re lying. The tailies had quite a few people killed on their first or second night on the island, and the person who infiltrated the tailies killed one person in cold blood (the first guy thrown in the pit). The Lostaways had one person killed in the first few nights, and the Others kidnapped Claire and attempted to kill Charlie (he wasn’t breathing when found). [/QUOTE] But were those killings done by Benry’s Others or the other Others? In fact, if we didn’t see Ethan kill the S-man, maybe he didn’t? I don’t remember the details of that episode anymore, but it could be the classic circumstantial case. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881/80 "2006-10-26T13:38:37Z")
[QUOTE=vivalostwages] How the heck long will it take Kate and Sawyer to figure out that everything they say and do is being monitored? [/QUOTE] One of the threats they made to Sawyer was not to tell kate that they were being monitored. At this point the Others know that kate’s cage serves no purpose and there is no reason now for Sawyer not to tell Kate. I wonder if she’ll still be in there next episode. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-3-4-every-man-for-himself/377881.md?page=5)