# Lost 4.01: "The Begining of the End" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 29, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458 "2008-01-29T15:45:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2008, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/201 "2008-02-02T23:14:18Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] True. And given how we know Losties absolutely refuse to discuss practical matters, I suppose it never occured to anyone to ask the potential rescuers: “So… are you going to pick us up by air or sea?” [/QUOTE] And since they were “getting a fix” on Naomi’s “fancy phone”, one would expect them to be going to where that fix was gotten. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/202 "2008-02-03T00:19:48Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] And since they were “getting a fix” on Naomi’s “fancy phone”, one would expect them to be going to where that fix was gotten. [/QUOTE] and since the phone could go ‘wonkers’ anytime - you’d think it’d be best to stay at last known vs wandering somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/203 "2008-02-03T00:48:05Z")
I just re-watched it. I have to apologize to Jack-- he was talking about growing a beard in the context of disguising himself from autograph hunters. I thought he was just contemplating a fashion statement. I don’t think it was Locke whom Hurley saw in the cabin. Locke has blue eyes, and the [eye in the cabin was brown.](http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:JacobEye4x01-wide.jpg) Lostpedia calls it “Jacob’s eye”, although it is actually listed as “unknown” at the bottom of that episode. Also, why would Jack and Kate hang around that plane wreckage when the last time they were there the pilot was killed by a bear and then they encountered TCM right afterwards. And when it rains on The Island, that’s usually not a good thing… ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/204 "2008-02-03T04:55:24Z")
Sayid didn’t go with John, did he? He hasn’t caught The Island Stupid yet, right? ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/205 "2008-02-03T05:35:47Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I just re-watched it. I have to apologize to Jack-- he was talking about growing a beard in the context of disguising himself from autograph hunters. I thought he was just contemplating a fashion statement. I don’t think it was Locke whom Hurley saw in the cabin. Locke has blue eyes, and the [eye in the cabin was brown.](http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:JacobEye4x01-wide.jpg) Lostpedia calls it “Jacob’s eye”, although it is actually listed as “unknown” at the bottom of that episode. Also, why would Jack and Kate hang around that plane wreckage when the last time they were there the pilot was killed by a bear and then they encountered TCM right afterwards. And when it rains on The Island, that’s usually not a good thing… [/QUOTE] The pilot was killed by the TCM. They did not see a bear then. The cockpit was tilted up, they had to climb up to it. Polar bears are big but not big enough to grab someone out of the cockpit at that height. Also, the pilot was next seen way up in a tree. Not the work of a bear. ---
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/206 "2008-02-03T07:26:39Z")
I haven’t read through all of the recent threads, but has anyone speculated further on who is in the coffin? My guess is that it is NOT one of the Oceanic 6, due to the fact the obit in the paper was small and there would be a bunch of press at the funeral if the person was “famous.” Thus, I think it was : Ben which also could explain Kate’s disdainful “why would I go to the funeral?” response. It would certainly be interesting to find out how and why that person got back to the real world without being one of the rescued. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/207 "2008-02-03T12:49:32Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] True. And given how we know Losties absolutely refuse to discuss practical matters, I suppose it never occured to anyone to ask the potential rescuers: “So… are you going to pick us up by air or sea?” [/QUOTE] “Oh, by the way, we’ll all be gathered on a beach on the western side of the island. We’ll build bonfires to help guide you.” Such trivial matters. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/208 "2008-02-03T14:44:13Z")
[QUOTE=Rachael Rage] I haven’t read through all of the recent threads, but has anyone speculated further on who is in the coffin? My guess is that it is NOT one of the Oceanic 6, due to the fact the obit in the paper was small and there would be a bunch of press at the funeral if the person was “famous.” [/QUOTE] I don’t know. Judging by Jack’s beard they’d been back awhile, and in all likelihood their fifteen minutes would have been up. How long do you think a bunch of plane crash survivors would stay famous - six months? A year? No longer than that, I’d bet. Seeing as the series is set in 2004, I suspect the creators would want to bring it back to “real time”, which means they’d have been home for at least three years. My money’s on Sawyer being in that coffin. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/209 "2008-02-03T14:57:57Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] I don’t know. Judging by Jack’s beard they’d been back awhile, and in all likelihood their fifteen minutes would have been up. How long do you think a bunch of plane crash survivors would stay famous - six months? A year? No longer than that, I’d bet. Seeing as the series is set in 2004, I suspect the creators would want to bring it back to “real time”, which means they’d have been home for at least three years. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but Jack is considered a hero by the public for some reason. The public story appears to be something other than a simple rescue. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/210 "2008-02-03T17:21:14Z")
Did anyone read the transcription of the “enhanced” version of “Through The Looking Glass” on the [Lostpedia](http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Through_the_Looking_Glass_%28Enhanced_Version%29)? They actual text is pretty goofy, but there’s at least one thing in there that was somewhat interesting to me: > [@](#): > > (Dr. Hamill: “Gary Nadler is doing the surgery at six AM.”) > Ah, a little LOST Easter egg here > Dr. Gary Nadler shares a last name > with our pheasant-hunting commando > Bernard Nadler. Anyone else find anything interesting in the “enhanced” text? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/211 "2008-02-03T17:26:25Z")
[QUOTE=ZipperJJ] Did anyone read the transcription of the “enhanced” version of “Through The Looking Glass” on the [Lostpedia](http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Through_the_Looking_Glass_%28Enhanced_Version%29)? They actual text is pretty goofy, but there’s at least one thing in there that was somewhat interesting to me: Anyone else find anything interesting in the “enhanced” text? [/QUOTE] I hadn’t realized the Nadler connection. Interesting stuff about Blaise Pascal…except that I think “Pascal Flats” was probably just a lame pun on Rascal Flatts, more than a reference to the 17th century philosopher-mathematician. And the attempted connections to Lewis Carroll were a bit strained. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/212 "2008-02-03T17:58:48Z")
As usual, late to the party. I only recently got started watching this series and have been ripping through it, all three seasons over about two months in short marathons… I think the week’s wait between episodes is gonna kill me 😉 I almost never purposely watch TV, though there are lots of shows we’ll catch if they happen to be on. This is the first time I’ve ever gotten engaged in a currently running show! I found out about Six Feet Under a couple weeks after the end, and was able to Netflix them or pick them all up on DVD; we only just recently got around to the Sopranos. I do **love** that they are running them online because if I’d missed one airing I’d have had to stop watching and wait for the DVDs to come out. I may actually do that, wait a couple weeks then watch several episodes at once, hmm… God, too much geekery to yip-yap about… I am actually pretty convinced that the flash-forwards were something like Desmond’s flashes. They’re “potential” history, what _would_ happen if the rescue goes as planned–some of the people on the island would be taken off, most killed in whatever nefarious plot the alleged rescuers have in mind for the island. The few that are brought back live terrible, tortured lives in the knowledge that their bad decisions destroyed the rest. Since we know, from Desmond’s flashes, the future can be changed if they make different decisions, we’ll find out that Ben and John are right, and Jack will bring his people to the barracks. The Others and our heroes will become allied against the new assault, eventually Ben will be disposed, and in the end the ones who want to go back do and the rest, the ones who had nothing to go back for, will remain to protect the island. I love the quality of the ensemble; these folks are playing the hell out of those characters. Even most of the minor characters rock their cameos. I cried like a little girl when Charlie died, and cheered out loud when Hurley makes his totally Hurley radio call: “yeah, they’re all cool… I rescued them and stuff.” I deeply appreciated Charlie/Desmond dialogue for the extensive opportunities to listen to a Brit and a Scot talking, be still my beating heart! 😉 I love the mystery, even when it’s _totally_ contrived, like a ten-second re-cap of of events would bring everyone up to speed, and then they all could make good decisions based on known facts. It’s okay, I’m still eating it up, even the very artificial drama. ---
**Author:** ![scareyfaerie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scareyfaerie/32/3135_2.png) [@scareyfaerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scareyfaerie)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/213 "2008-02-03T18:34:58Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Yeah, but Jack is considered a hero by the public for some reason. The public story appears to be something other than a simple rescue. [/QUOTE] I got the impression that he was a hero for pulling the woman from the burning wreckage of her car, rather than anything to do with the plane wreck. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/214 "2008-02-03T18:50:08Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] I don’t know. Judging by Jack’s beard they’d been back awhile, and in all likelihood their fifteen minutes would have been up. How long do you think a bunch of plane crash survivors would stay famous - six months? A year? No longer than that, I’d bet. Seeing as the series is set in 2004, I suspect the creators would want to bring it back to “real time”, which means they’d have been home for at least three years. My money’s on Sawyer being in that coffin. [/QUOTE] I think we can safely say that the time period in the flash forward of _Through The Looking Glass_ is present day, or close to it. Jack’s cell phone pretty much confirms that. As for the time period in this episode’s flash forward, it’s hard to say. Maybe a few months earlier, at least, as that’s how long it would take someone to grow that long of a beard. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/215 "2008-02-03T18:52:36Z")
[QUOTE=ScareyFaerie] I got the impression that he was a hero for pulling the woman from the burning wreckage of her car, rather than anything to do with the plane wreck. [/QUOTE] I thought so, too, but they were careful to point out in the “enhanced” version that the people in the pharmacy were recognizing him from events unconnected to the recent car rescue. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/216 "2008-02-03T19:42:53Z")
[QUOTE=NajaNivea] I thought so, too, but they were careful to point out in the “enhanced” version that the people in the pharmacy were recognizing him from events unconnected to the recent car rescue. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I’m thinking that whatever story they fabricated about their survival from the plane crash painted Jack as a hero. That’s part of what is eating at him. ---
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/217 "2008-02-03T23:08:27Z")
[QUOTE=NajaNivea] I am actually pretty convinced that the flash-forwards were something like Desmond’s flashes. They’re “potential” history, what _would_ happen if the rescue goes as planned–some of the people on the island would be taken off, most killed in whatever nefarious plot the alleged rescuers have in mind for the island. The few that are brought back live terrible, tortured lives in the knowledge that their bad decisions destroyed the rest. Since we know, from Desmond’s flashes, the future can be changed if they make different decisions. . . [/QUOTE] A co-worker’s theory is that the show is now set in the present-day (as in, 2008), and the island scenes are now the flashbacks. That’s a neat idea but if it were true we would be following multiple plot lines and characters in the real world and individuals in the island flashbacks, and that hasn’t been the case, so I think the “now” of the show is still 2004, and we continue to flash-forward to the future. Which, indeed, opens up to the flash-forwards being “possible” futures, but I hope not. I think it would be a cop-out but they might do it in an interesting way. What I think is happening is that we’ll continue moving forward on the island and the “flash-forwards” will continue moving back in time until the two meet up, whenever that may be, and then the rest of the show will spend time with both the “islanders” and the “rescued” until the end of the show. Or something. In any case, it really invigorates the show and I’m excited about it. [QUOTE=NajaNivea] I love the quality of the ensemble; these folks are playing the hell out of those characters. [/QUOTE] Naveen Andrews, who never disappoints, completely kicked everyone’s ass forever with the look on his face after he found out that Charlie had died. I hadn’t shed a tear for Charlie (much as I like him and all) until that moment. [QUOTE=Alessan] My money’s on Sawyer being in that coffin. [/quote] Naw. I can’t believe Kate would be so blase about it if that were the case. No matter the circumstances of their relationship, she would have been upset. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/218 "2008-02-04T04:28:45Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] And what kind of guy goes around saying “I’m thinking of growing a beard”. Just grow the beard-- don’t muse over it or talk about it. Jack can be such a chick sometimes! [/QUOTE] Besides the chronologicaal explanation given by **jsc1953** , his also just mentioned that as one of the “Oceanic 6” he was still occasionally approached for autographs. Thus, he’s growing the beard to avoid getting recognized. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/219 "2008-02-04T04:46:49Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I think we can safely say that the time period in the flash forward of _Through The Looking Glass_ is present day, or close to it. Jack’s cell phone pretty much confirms that. [/QUOTE] Hard to say… this IS the show that put the Whirlpool Duet washer and dryer in the hatch… ---
**Author:** ![pretend\_my\_name\_is\_witty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@pretend\_my\_name\_is\_witty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pretend_my_name_is_witty)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-01-the-begining-of-the-end/435458/220 "2008-02-04T10:55:37Z")
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