# Lost 4.02: "Confirmed Dead" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 6, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577 "2008-02-06T20:38:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/121 "2008-02-09T15:06:40Z")
[QUOTE=IvoryTowerDenizen] I mentioned it in #46… didn’t talk about it though… 😉 [/QUOTE] Arrghh! I remember when you guys would go on and on about all the sciencey stuff, the referenced philosophers, airplanes, 18th century sailing vessels and survival methods. You guys would just go on and on until my eyes glazed over. _sniff_ I miss that. Okay, wanna talk about the dog? I think he _knows_ things. When Jack’s group saw Charlotte’s transceiver coming toward them I knew it would be Vincent. I wonder how they got Vincent to go towards Jack’s group? Will Jack’s group keep Vincent? Will Vincent spy on Jack’s group for Locke’s group? Will Vincent be one of the Oceanic 6? When will they give us a Vincent P.O.V. show or flashback/forward? I think he _knows_ things. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/122 "2008-02-09T15:51:44Z")
Fight my ignorance - is it always safe to shoot someone wearing a vest? ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/123 "2008-02-09T16:16:26Z")
[QUOTE=ZipperJJ] Fight my ignorance - is it always safe to shoot someone wearing a vest? [/QUOTE] Umm…no. Vests don’t cover everything and numerous police officers and soldiers have been killed when a bullet hit them in the armpit or in the side above the edge of the vest, or in the throat above the front edge. However, this IS television, after all… ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/124 "2008-02-09T16:44:24Z")
[QUOTE=RikWriter] Umm…no. Vests don’t cover everything and numerous police officers and soldiers have been killed when a bullet hit them in the armpit or in the side above the edge of the vest, or in the throat above the front edge. However, this IS television, after all… [/QUOTE] Sorry, I meant to say “is it always safe to shoot someone squarely in their vest?” I realize there’s holes in the vests (I watch a lot of cop shows!) but I was wondering if the vest part of the vest is 100% bullet safe or if there’s some very obvious complications that could occur - like a bullet impact over the heart could stop the heart, or a certain caliber bullet could penetrate it (not “cop killers” which are probably not found on the island), or something like that. Basically I’m asking if me and my friends all had vests and were good shots, could we have a fun time running around the woods shooting each other in the vest? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/125 "2008-02-09T17:33:27Z")
There are sometimes injuries associated with the blunt trauma: [http://www.jtrauma.com/pt/re/jtrauma/abstract.00005373-200708000-00025.htm;jsessionid=HtjRphrvnkQ4v3xRTnnyXgMHKTTLwH1BgsnF3hT2sQ1jTKQgDRhy!-809317659!181195629!8091!-1](http://www.jtrauma.com/pt/re/jtrauma/abstract.00005373-200708000-00025.htm;jsessionid=HtjRphrvnkQ4v3xRTnnyXgMHKTTLwH1BgsnF3hT2sQ1jTKQgDRhy!-809317659!181195629!8091!-1) and > [@](#): > > on the night of June 23, 2003, Forest Hills, Pennsylvania, Police Officer Edward Limbacher, wearing body armor constructed primarily of a fiber called Zylon®, threw open the side door of an unmarked Econoline van and stepped out to move in on a drug suspect. The suspect fired, striking Limbacher in the arm and abdomen with .40 caliber rounds. The shot to the abdomen penetrated the body armor Limbacher was wearing. He survived but sustained severe injuries.4 > > The Forest Hills shooting was the first case ever reported to NIJ in which body armor compliant with the NIJ standard failed to prevent penetration from a bullet it was designed to defeat. > **[Advancing Justice Through Science](https://nij.ojp.gov/)** > > The National Institute of Justice (NIJ) is dedicated to improving knowledge and understanding of crime and justice issues through science. you might also find these interesting: [How do you test body armor?](http://www.slate.com/id/2166860) [Flak jackets vs. bulletproof vests.](http://www.slate.com/id/2109616/) [Patrick Leahy Bulletproof Vest Partnership | Overview | Office of Justice Programs](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bvpbasi/docs/SupplementII_08_12_05.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/126 "2008-02-09T19:52:47Z")
I enjoyed this episode more than the last one. I like the team of four - their personalities are a good counterpoint to the Losties’ patented version of whiny evasiveness. But can I just say that I am sick of Ben getting beat up and threatened with execution every five minutes? Yeah, I know he asks for it, but come on. What’s the point? He’s not suddenly going to say “Stop! I’ll tell you everything!” It just makes the Losties look sadistic, and frankly looking at his mushed-up face is getting nauseating. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/127 "2008-02-10T02:52:21Z")
[QUOTE=Meltdown] A complete guess. Feel free to poke holes in it. [/QUOTE] Fantastic guess, actually, and it fits perfectly. Now, can someone explain why you would WANT to fake a crash? Completely vanished in the middle of the ocean and it’s been months. It’s not like the thing could still be circling. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/128 "2008-02-10T13:27:38Z")
I don’t understand why the Losties STILL don’t insist on getting all the information they can, especially when they have the upper hand. Why didn’t they just sit Dan and/or Miles down and say “We’re not moving until you tell us what the bloody hell is going on here!”? I know it makes for better drama to keep it dragging on, but the show just keeps straining credulity by not having all the Losties being intensely curious as to what’s happening. And when they do ask, they’re almost always given a very cryptic answer, and they almost never press the follow-up questions. I’m fine with stretching mysteries and introducing new mysteries, but I’m sick and tired of having characters just act in completely unbelievable and often stupid ways. I want my characters to at least feel like they’re real people. That said, this was an entertaining episode, but my being intrigued by the new developments was balanced out by the ongoing dialoguarreah (although to be fair, this episode was a lot better than many previous ones in that regard). ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/129 "2008-02-10T17:03:32Z")
[QUOTE=Windwalker] I don’t understand why the Losties STILL don’t insist on getting all the information they can, especially when they have the upper hand. Why didn’t they just sit Dan and/or Miles down and say “We’re not moving until you tell us what the bloody hell is going on here!”? I know it makes for better drama to keep it dragging on, but the show just keeps straining credulity by not having all the Losties being intensely curious as to what’s happening. And when they do ask, they’re almost always given a very cryptic answer, and they almost never press the follow-up questions. [/QUOTE] [John\_Locke\_Mode] It is the way the ISLAND wants things to be. [/John\_Locke\_Mode] ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/130 "2008-02-10T17:51:37Z")
[QUOTE=Windwalker] I don’t understand why the Losties STILL don’t insist on getting all the information they can, especially when they have the upper hand. Why didn’t they just sit Dan and/or Miles down and say “We’re not moving until you tell us what the bloody hell is going on here!”? [/QUOTE] Well, it’s complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/131 "2008-02-10T18:05:41Z")
[QUOTE=Windwalker] I don’t understand why the Losties STILL don’t insist on getting all the information they can, especially when they have the upper hand. [/QUOTE] Shut up! SHUT UP!\*\* : punch :\*\* ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/132 "2008-02-10T18:06:13Z")
[QUOTE=BobT] Well, it’s complicated. [/QUOTE] Or, a shot rings out. Somebody gets a knife in the back. An animal comes charging out of the underbrush. It starts to rain. Hell, anything that will momentarily distract the ADD characters (and the viewers) long enough for the question to go unanswered and subsequently forgotten or completely ignored. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/133 "2008-02-10T18:14:43Z")
[QUOTE=Windwalker] I don’t understand why the Losties STILL don’t insist on getting all the information they can, especially when they have the upper hand. Why didn’t they just sit Dan and/or Miles down and say “We’re not moving until you tell us what the bloody hell is going on here!”? I know it makes for better drama to keep it dragging on, but the show just keeps straining credulity by not having all the Losties being intensely curious as to what’s happening. And when they do ask, they’re almost always given a very cryptic answer, and they almost never press the follow-up questions. I’m fine with stretching mysteries and introducing new mysteries, but I’m sick and tired of having characters just act in completely unbelievable and often stupid ways. I want my characters to at least feel like they’re real people. [/QUOTE] Right and when there is a legit interruption to the question/answer, we then cut to several hours later after slogging through the jungle- and why not talk \*then \*and get answers? ---
**Author:** ![Meltdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Meltdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meltdown)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/134 "2008-02-10T20:15:53Z")
[QUOTE=Encinitas] One scene I found interesting was Miles telling Jack to give him the phone. Jack says “Tell me why you’re here and I’ll give you the phone.” Miles says “Give me the phone and I’ll tell you why we’re here.” Jack exchanges a resigned look with Sayid and gives Miles the phone. He never asks for his payback answer. sigh… [/QUOTE] IIRC, and I only saw the episode once, right as Jack was going to get his answer, Faraday interjected with the fact that Juliet wasn’t on the manifest. This led to a scuffle, and then finally Miles said something along the lines of “you want to know why we’re here? We’re here for him!” and shows a picture of Ben. So Jack actually did get his answer, or as much of it as Miles was prepared to give. P.S. – sorry about causing confusion by boxing the Michael speculation. I wasn’t sure the rules on spoilers on this thread and figured I’d better play it safe. ---
**Author:** ![Made\_in\_Macau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@Made\_in\_Macau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Made_in_Macau)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/135 "2008-02-10T22:33:20Z")
I am completely unable to see Lt Daniels from The Wire, who is playing Naomi’s bossman, as anything other that Lt Daniels from The Wire. Has he got those radio phones tapped? Maybe he’ll access the CCTV footage from the others, but he’ll need to prove Probable Cause, otherwise it will be inadmissable. Why doesn’t Miles have a significant name too? Unless he shares his surname with some 18th century table-tapper that I’m unaware of. What was his surname? MiM ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/136 "2008-02-10T22:54:46Z")
I don’t know if Miles last name has been spelled out in an official source. I’ve see “Strom” and “Sturm”. Lostpedia says “Straume” Miles is a character in “Turn of the Screw.” ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/137 "2008-02-11T01:48:51Z")
[QUOTE=Made in Macau] I am completely unable to see Lt Daniels from The Wire, who is playing Naomi’s bossman, as anything other that Lt Daniels from The Wire. Has he got those radio phones tapped? Maybe he’ll access the CCTV footage from the others, but he’ll need to prove Probable Cause, otherwise it will be inadmissable. [/QUOTE] Yeah it’s hard for me as well. I keep expecting him to thread the needle between chain-of-command and actually doing good casework, while taking shit from superiors and subordinates. Also, about the Losties extremely poor interrogation skills, why in the world haven’t Locke and co. pumped Ben for EVERYTHING?! Ben will weasel and lie his way through it, sure, but at least his answers will have to be somewhat plausible (and some of them real) in order to avoid more Sawyer-beatings. And same goes for Juliet (though she should be much more willing than Ben to divulge info). They should at least all know what The Others are about by now, but our Losties still know nothing. Man, with this sloppy work, they would _never_ get on Daniels’ [new] detail on **The Wire**! ---
**Author:** ![Scubaqueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@Scubaqueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scubaqueen)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/138 "2008-02-11T17:08:06Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] I’m wondering if the polar bear skeleton may relate to the two human skeletons the Losties found way back in the first or second episode. [/QUOTE] which reminded me of something. correct me if i’m wrong, but didn’t jack find daddy’s casket in that very same episode – and it was empty? and didn’t somebody conjecture on these boards somewhere recently that they thought the shadowy guy in the cabin (hurley visit) WAS daddy? :eek: 😛 just sayin’… ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/139 "2008-02-11T17:12:48Z")
I just caught up with both episodes. I’m digging the new season. I like it when the flashbacks/forwards deal exclusively with advancing the storyline. (I see there is a Jin/Sun episode on the horizon. Those are always deadly boring for me). My take on the bullet proof vest/Ben shooting development was it was his commentary on why would a rescue team member be wearing a BPV. I look forward to Thursdays. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577/140 "2008-02-11T17:23:16Z")
[QUOTE=middleman] My take on the bullet proof vest/Ben shooting development was it was his commentary on why would a rescue team member be wearing a BPV. [/QUOTE] But what sane person chooses to communicate like this? Just lift up her shirt, and badabing, you’ve made your point without making yourself look like a homocidal maniac. He’s (supposedly) a brilliant liar and manipulator, I get it, but he often seems ridiculously stupid, being super-cryptic and circuitous when it’s clearly not in his interests to do so (i.e. it will make people want to KILL him). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-02-confirmed-dead/436577.md?page=8)