# Lost 4.05: "The Constant" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 28, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512 "2008-02-28T15:49:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/201 "2008-03-03T07:41:22Z")
tds1273: > [@](#): > > The babies that don’t survive, could they be meeting a fate similar to Eloise and Minkowski? It’s not that the babies don’t survive, but that the pregnant mothers don’t survive their scond trimester. Their uteruses turn old quickly, or some such. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/202 "2008-03-03T20:29:17Z")
[QUOTE=Sir Prize] What did the radio guy say had led to him and some other guy from suffering time flashes? [/QUOTE] They were bored, and they snuck away on the ship’s launch to check out The Island. The time displacement episodes starting happening right after that, and that’s all he knew. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/203 "2008-03-04T01:49:49Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] Also, did anyone notice that Mr. Widmore left the water running before he left the bathroom? I think he knows what’s happening to Desmond and that was a subtle sign for him. Kind of a “When you wake up, you will have been unconscious for a very long time.” [/QUOTE] He also used a wad of paper towels to turn the tap on. I think he’s simply meant to be a germo-phobe, who didn’t want to touch the ‘filthy’ tap with his freshly washed hands. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/204 "2008-03-04T07:10:12Z")
[QUOTE=StarvingButStrong] He also used a wad of paper towels to turn the tap on. I think he’s simply meant to be a germo-phobe, who didn’t want to touch the ‘filthy’ tap with his freshly washed hands. [/QUOTE] IMO he was just playing a little power game with Desmond. “Here, how’s about you close this for me, bitch?” ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/205 "2008-03-04T12:43:13Z")
Okay, finally watched the whole episode. Why did Penny tell Charlie she didn’t know anything about a boat, if they (on the freighter) have been getting messages from her? Where did the dynamite on the _Black Rock_ come from? Why did somebody think a derelict ship was a good place to store it? (One of the hundreds of little questions that will probably never be answered.) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/206 "2008-03-04T13:08:12Z")
I think Penny’s messages are just open broadcast, anyone can receive them. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/207 "2008-03-04T13:31:07Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] Okay, finally watched the whole episode. Why did Penny tell Charlie she didn’t know anything about a boat, if they (on the freighter) have been getting messages from her? [/QUOTE] Well, Penny obviously has contact with people in faraway places - like those Antarctic Portuguese guys. Maybe they all work for her father, who has given her acess to some of them, but not to all (i.e., the boat)? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/208 "2008-03-04T13:33:25Z")
Oh, and the dynamite on the Black Rock was part of it’s cargo when it set sail. Of course, it’s last voyage was in 1845, while dynamite was invented in 1866, but that’s time travel for you. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/209 "2008-03-04T14:07:39Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] I think Penny’s messages are just open broadcast, anyone can receive them. [/QUOTE] Minkowski said Penny was calling the boat, but they were instructed not to answer. That and Mr. Widmore’s comment about how Penny is the one who hates Desmond have caused me to entertain the hypothesis that Penny may be pulling some strings that we can’t see yet. Maybe she’s The Cobra :eek: I realize this is a thin reed on which to balance such a claim. It’s all I’ve got. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/210 "2008-03-04T14:11:30Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Oh, and the dynamite on the Black Rock was part of it’s cargo when it set sail. Of course, it’s last voyage was in 1845, while dynamite was invented in 1866, but that’s time travel for you. [/QUOTE] I thought the dynamite belonged to Danielle’s expedition and they just stored it on the Black Rock for some reason. I’ll have to go back and check the relevant episodes to see. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/211 "2008-03-04T14:15:10Z")
[QUOTE=tanstaafl] I thought the dynamite belonged to Danielle’s expedition and they just stored it on the Black Rock for some reason. I’ll have to go back and check the relevant episodes to see. [/QUOTE] Besides one quick mention in this thread, have we seen anyone else suggest the idea that Danielle’s “sickness” has something to do with the crazy brain time hopping thing? Of course, were that the case she might not have had to kill them. Hmm… -Joe ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/212 "2008-03-04T15:54:47Z")
[QUOTE=Gfactor] Minkowski said Penny was calling the boat, but they were instructed not to answer. That and Mr. Widmore’s comment about how Penny is the one who hates Desmond have caused me to entertain the hypothesis that Penny may be pulling some strings that we can’t see yet. Maybe she’s The Cobra :eek: I realize this is a thin reed on which to balance such a claim. It’s all I’ve got. [/QUOTE] I think Mr. Widmore was correct, at the time. When Desmond went to visit Penny, she was, shall we say, “less than enthusiastic” about seeing him. I would guess that she somehow had a conversion at some point in the preceding 8 years. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/213 "2008-03-04T16:18:24Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I think Mr. Widmore was correct, at the time. When Desmond went to visit Penny, she was, shall we say, “less than enthusiastic” about seeing him. I would guess that she somehow had a conversion at some point in the preceding 8 years. [/QUOTE] That’s a very good point. I think what set me off is the way Mr. Widmore said what he did. If I get a chance, I’ll rewatch that section of the show. Here is the transcript excerpt from Through the Looking Glass [spoiler][Charlie heads to the communication room and enters the code by entering numbers corresponding to the notes to the song. When he finishes, the yellow light goes out, and an engine of some kind seems to start up] CHARLIE: So much for fate. [As he leaves, a noise calls him back, a flat beep sound. A button is flashing, and Charlie reads the text under it] CHARLIE: Incoming transmission! [He quickly presses it, and Penelope Widmore appears on the view-screen] PENNY: Hello?! Can you hear me? CHARLIE: Yes, yes I can hear you. PENNY: Who is this? Who am I speaking to? CHARLIE: Charlie er… Charlie Pace, I’m a survivor of Flight eight-one-five, Oceanic Flight eight-one-five. PENNY: Er… where are you? CHARLIE: We’re on an Island, we’re alive. PENNY: An Island!! Well where, what’s your location? CHARLIE: I dunno. Who’s this? PENNY: This is Penelope. Penelope Widmore. How did you get this frequency? CHARLIE: [Shouts] Desmond? Desmond! PENNY: Did you just say Desmond? CHARLIE: Yeah, he’s here, he’s with me. PENNY: [Smiles] Is he OK? CHARLIE: He’s brilliant! Hey, are you on the boat? PENNY: What, what boat? CHARLIE: Your boat, eighty miles off shore. Er… Naomi, parachutist. PENNY: Bu, I’m not on a boat, who, who’s Naomi? [Desmond looks around the moon pool room, and notices Mikhail’s body is missing. In the comms room, a tap at the window cause Charlie to turn. Mikhail is outside in the water, with a grenade in his hand] PENNY: Hello, hello is Desmond there? Desmond, can you hear me? Desmond? [Mikhail pulls the cork. Charlie turns to see Desmond running toward the room, and he rushes to close the door. As he does so, Desmond sees the video screen] PENNY: Can you hear me? DESMOND: Penny!!! No… [Charlie closes the door and locks it. Mikhail lets off the grenade and the window is destroyed. Water rushes into the comms room] DESMOND: Charlie!!! [Charlie turns to the water as Desmond hammers against the door with a fire extinguisher. Charlie stands still then suddenly rushes, grabbing a pen from his pocket and writing on his hand desperately. He then dives down to the door window between him and Desmond, pressing his hand on the glass with the words on “Not Penny’s boat”. Desmond understands, and Charlie smiles. Charlie then breathes in, and he rushes backwards in the water. As he drowns, he gestures the cross on his chest] [/spoiler] I noticed a few things: 1. Desmond does know that Charlie talked to Penny. 2. Penny says she’s not on a boat and denies knowing who Naomi is. It’s possible Penny had a phone number to call, but didn’t know it was to the freighter. 3. We still don’t know how Naomi got the photo of Penny and Desmond if Penny didn’t give it to Naomi, unless it has something to do with Faraday. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/214 "2008-03-04T16:24:46Z")
Penny says she knows about The Island, and she didn’t get that from Charlie. Maybe she got that from the Portuguese guys. She also said she’d been doing some research, so maybe that means rummaging through Daddy’s papers: > [@](#): > > [Phone rings, someone answers.] > > PENNY: Hello? > > DESMOND: Penny? > > PENNY: Desmond? > > DESMOND: Penny…Penny, answer. Answer, Penny. > > PENNY: Des, where are you? > > DESMOND: I’m…I’m on a boat. Um…I’ve been on an island, and— Oh, my god, Penny. Is that really you? > > PENNY: Yeah! Yes, it’s me! > > DESMOND: You believe me? You still care about me? > > PENNY: Des, I’ve been looking for you for the past three years. I know about the island. I’ve been researching—(static)—and then when I spoke to your friend Charlie, that’s when I knew you were still alive. That’s when I knew I wasn’t crazy. Des, are you still there!? BTW, it appears that she only had her conversion back to caring about him ~3 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/215 "2008-03-04T16:42:42Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Penny says she knows about The Island, and she didn’t get that from Charlie. Maybe she got that from the Portuguese guys. She also said she’d been doing some research, so maybe that means rummaging through Daddy’s papers. [/QUOTE] Yep. She knows about the island. But why does she say she doesn’t know about the boat when she’s been calling it? All I’m saying is there are at least two possibilities: 1. She \*does \* know about the boat, and is lying about it. 2. She’s been calling a phone number but doesn’t know where she is calling. 3. I’m not sure if this is possible or not, but the Through the Looking Glass transcript also suggests that she doesn’t know she’s calling out. > [@](#): > > Charlie heads to the communication room and enters the code by entering numbers corresponding to the notes to the song. When he finishes, the yellow light goes out, and an engine of some kind seems to start up] > > CHARLIE: So much for fate. > > [As he leaves, a noise calls him back, a flat beep sound. A button is flashing, and Charlie reads the text under it] > > CHARLIE: Incoming transmission! > > * * * > > PENNY: This is Penelope. Penelope Widmore. How did you get this frequency? If it’s number 1, one reason she might be deceptive about the boat is because she’s more involved with Naomi’s mission than she wants Des and crew to know, which could in turn mean that she’s trying to conceal an alliance. Or not. If it’s number 2 or 3, I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/216 "2008-03-04T17:20:41Z")
I think it’s probably complicated. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/217 "2008-03-04T17:58:23Z")
John Mace: > [@](#): > > I would guess that she somehow had a conversion at some point in the preceding 8 years. She must have, she tracked him to L. A. and spoke with him lovingly before he set off on the around-the-world sailing race. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/218 "2008-03-04T18:32:01Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] I still maintain that any “real world explanation” for Lost was trashed in the _first episode_ when a gigantic invisible monster knocked down a bunch of trees. Also, did anyone notice that Mr. Widmore left the water running before he left the bathroom? I think he knows what’s happening to Desmond and that was a subtle sign for him. Kind of a “When you wake up, you will have been unconscious for a very long time.” [/QUOTE] I thought he knew too. I was expecting on card to be written a phone number that didn’t work in 1996, but would in 2004. I think the “real world explanation” might have just been their way to dismiss the purgatory theories. **cmkeller** - thanks for the clear up. Apparently my memory is slipping, unfortunately I have no clues who my constant is. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/219 "2008-03-04T18:44:39Z")
[QUOTE=cmkeller] John Mace: She must have, she tracked him to L. A. and spoke with him lovingly before he set off on the around-the-world sailing race. [/QUOTE] Refresh my memory on that-- I don’t remember when that happened. Can you cite the episode and quote the transcript? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512/220 "2008-03-04T18:49:57Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Refresh my memory on that-- I don’t remember when that happened. Can you cite the episode and quote the transcript? [/QUOTE] It was right around the time he ran into Jack. > [@](#): > > Later in Los Angeles, Desmond is preparing to run the steps of a sports stadium, a tour de stade, where Jack, a stranger, arrives to do the same. Penelope then suddenly arrives, having tracked down Desmond, and proceeds to confront him for the first time since his release from prison. She also asks Desmond if he has read the book Our Mutual Friend, to which he replies in the negative. Penelope asks him why he hasn’t written anys letter to her but Desmond does not answer. She reveals she hasn’t yet set a date for her marriage. Desmond tells her he will be back in a year but Penelope wants him back “right now”. Penelope then asks what he is running from. He evades the question, answering that he has to win the race sponsored by her father to regain his honor, that is what he is running to. [http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Live\_Together%2C\_Die\_Alone](http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Live_Together%2C_Die_Alone) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-05-the-constant/439512.md?page=12)