# Lost 4.07: "Ji Yeon" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 13, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247 "2008-03-13T15:56:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/81 "2008-03-14T15:08:17Z")
That’s the thing that confuses me. As they said, whoever faked the crash site has an _enormous_ amount of resources available. Does Ben have those resources off the Island? We know he has some, the front company that recruited Juliet for example and Miles expects to get 3.2 million out of him somehow. But I have never had the idea that Ben had enough off Island resources to do something like fake the 815 crash. Could there be a third party involved that hasn’t made a move directly yet? DHARMA itself, maybe? (_Someone_ was making those food drops to the Swan station after all.) I dunno. I think we’re still missing something here. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/82 "2008-03-14T15:19:09Z")
[QUOTE=tanstaafl] I dunno. I think we’re still missing something here. [/QUOTE] Yes. Each season they expand the universe of people involved, so I suspect there is at least one, maybe two more levels that we know little or nothing about right now. Don’t assume that we have all the players lined up. There could be involvement by “Jacob” or some folks we have not even met yet. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/83 "2008-03-14T15:22:01Z")
[QUOTE=tanstaafl] Could there be a third party involved that hasn’t made a move directly yet? DHARMA itself, maybe? (_Someone_ was making those food drops to the Swan station after all.) [/QUOTE] Hijack: are those still going to made now that the Swan has blown up? I haven’t seen one since “Dave”. My theory: Ben staged the crash, to get everyone interested in Oceanic 815 to get off his tail. Daddy Widmore finances the Hanso Foundation and thinks the Dharma project ended in the late 1980s when everybody got purged / packed up or left. Only he finds out about the continued existence of the island through Penny’s guys–that somebody’s there and it’s clearly not the Dharma people–and is sending along a freighter to bust the Others and get Ben Linus, enemy number one. Saving Desmond and the survivors _is_ incidental–as long as they get Ben. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/84 "2008-03-14T15:36:47Z")
[QUOTE=Kythereia] My theory: Ben staged the crash, to get everyone interested in Oceanic 815 to get off his tail. [/QUOTE] But, the problem is, the staged crash brought Widmore straight to the island. Are we supposed to think now that Ben is stupid, or that he has a plan? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/85 "2008-03-14T15:44:25Z")
[QUOTE=Kythereia] Hijack: are those still going to made now that the Swan has blown up? I haven’t seen one since “Dave”. [/QUOTE] In the podcast before the last one, the producers pretty much said there will be more drops. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/86 "2008-03-14T15:59:15Z")
A few random thoughts: - Even in an episode where Sawyer doesn’t appear, he claims the funniest moment. Sawyer teaching Jin English. I was expecting Jin to give Jack a funny nickname. - **Omniscient** , my wife and I came to the exact opposite conclusion regarding who will ultimately be the good guy and who will be the bad guy. We think Ben will ultimately be a sleaze ball who happens to be on the right side of good and evil (likely for the wrong reasons). I can see Ben explaining smugly to Jack, “I told you I was one of the good guys!” And thinking back to last week’s episode, doesn’t his behavior surrounding sending Goodwin off to the Tailies mirror King David sending a friend to the front line so he could marry the guy’s wife? - Michael’s alias was Kevin _Johnson_! See? See? They give the white people literary names. Michael the Janitor gets the name of an NBA Point guard. The whole system is racist! 😉 - The Freighter scenes are like something out of Stephen King. Soon that damn thing will be a ghost ship. - I figure there are at least a good handful of people who get off the island but are not accounted for in the Oceanic Six. Ben. Maybe Desmond. Surely Mikhail! I am confused about the sixth. I thought the previews said we would know the identity of all six by last night, right? Aaron has to count, I guess. - The Lost casting director consistently nails his or her choices. Everyone cast on this show since the pilot has been amazing. The Captain is the latest triumph. - Why the hate on Michael? He loves his kid. I’d beat everyone of you to death with a broken whiskey bottle to get my kid the last Nintendo Wii for his Christmas present. Do you what I would do to you to keep him alive and safe? You don’t want to know, because…it’s complicated! I think Michael’s motivations are equally complicated. He wants to help, but he clearly doesn’t hate the Losties. I think he probably likes them very much. They just sit on the wrong side of his priorities. - I think the black box is obviously from the faked crash. All of the major pieces of the plane seemed to end up on the island, right? Nose in the jungle. Mid section on the beach. Tail on the other side. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/87 "2008-03-14T16:09:59Z")
I know it probably doesn’t mean much, but I’m a bit intrigued by the scene with Hurley and Sun. It seems pretty obvious that that’s the first time that Sun is taking the baby to Jin’s grave, I guess because she had a “difficult” birth (although, I’m not really sure what was difficult physically about it - she didn’t end up with the c-section and it seemed to go pretty seamlessly). Why was Hurley there to accompany her? Why did he seem to expect other people to be there, too (and why was he glad they weren’t)? As an aside, my husband was incredulous: “They thought they were going to have to do a c-section and _poof_ all of a sudden, everything is fine and the baby just pops out?” I had to remind him that that’s exactly what happened with our youngest, just two short years ago. How they forget. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/88 "2008-03-14T16:11:23Z")
[QUOTE=running piglet cheese] I think it’s so cool that Hurly came to see Sun. Why didn’t any of the others acknowledge her giving birth? How can you possibly go thru such a life changing experience with other people and then cross them out of your life as if they never existed? Hurly is also the one who tried to talk Jack into going back to the island, presumably to rescue the ones left behind. He doesn’t seem so crazy to me. [/QUOTE] IIRC, Hurley asked if any others were coming, and when Sun said “no”, he said “good”. That was odd. I expected those two to start making out as the surprise ending. He did say “good”, right? That’s meaningful - clearly there’s at least one person Hurley hopes keeps away from Sun. [QUOTE=Gfactor] 1. Why does Widmore give a crap about flight 815 in the first place? [/QUOTE] Buying the black rock ship’s log indicates that he knows something about the island - maybe he had a hunch that 815 crashed there, and he acquired the black box of the fake crash to confirm that it was indeed a fake. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/89 "2008-03-14T16:12:30Z")
I see now that I did hear the ship’s captain’s name right, and Lostpedia picked up on the possible _Atlas Shrugged_ reference, too. Captain Galt. I have to admit feeling a little foolish in not catching that Jin’s off-island experience was not the same time as Sun’s. The strange obsession with getting a panda when he would’ve known his wife was actually in labor just seemed ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/90 "2008-03-14T16:14:50Z")
[QUOTE=middleman] …And thinking back to last week’s episode, doesn’t his behavior surrounding sending Goodwin off to the Tailies mirror King David sending a friend to the front line so he could marry the guy’s wife? [/QUOTE] Yes. Shamelessly copied from _The Lost Report_ (linked in OP) > [@The Lost Report](#): > > Goodwin was murdered by Ben but not directly. He deliberately put Goodwin in a dangerous place and did not recall him so he would get killed. There is a very similar story like this in the bible. It goes like this. Kind David of Israel had an affair with a married woman Bathsheeba while her husband, Uriah, was away at war. King David ordered that Uriah be put on the front lines and then ordered the rest of the men to withdraw so that Uriah would be killed. The plan worked. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/91 "2008-03-14T16:17:35Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I see now that I did hear the ship’s captain’s name right, and Lostpedia picked up on the possible _Atlas Shrugged_ reference, too. Captain Galt. [/QUOTE] There’s a better reference. _Atlas Shrugged_ may be a reach because the character’s name is apparently spelled “Gault”, not “Galt”. However, someone may have found a better match. This is from Doc Jensen’s column in EW Online… > [@Doc Jensen](#): > > Late addition: I just woke up from a nap after submitting this recap to my editor and received an e-mail from reader Tom, who points out that Captain Gault is also the name of a maritime adventure hero created by writer William Hope Hodgson. According to Wikipedia, Captain Gault is a ‘‘captain for hire’’ who is ‘‘highly placed in a secret society…In general, he reveals himself to have surprising reservoirs of specialized knowledge. Where he got all this knowledge is generally not revealed; we get only these tantalizing hints at the character’s past.’’ Says Tom, ‘‘This last sentence seems to sum up all of Lost, doesn’t it?’’ Nice catch, dude! And this gives me a chance to make a connection I’ve always wanted to make: Hodgson also wrote stories about a spectral investigator named Carnacki (think: Miles Straum?), who lived at 472 Cheyne Walk, in London — just down the street from where Penelope Widmore lives! ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/92 "2008-03-14T16:20:56Z")
I have a question. After Juliet spills the beans about Sun’s affair, Sun is trying to talk to Jin, saying, “It was a long time ago.” Excuse me, missy, but it couldn’t have been that long if you thought Bald Headed Dude (forgot his name, sorry) could have been the father of your baby and you’re only two months preggers. That said, any theory on why pregnant women die? I think the altered time of the island messes up the baby…the baby’s on real time, the mother’s on Island time, or vice versa. Claire got pregnant before the plane crash, so she and the baby never got out of sync. Just a WAG. Take it for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/93 "2008-03-14T16:32:12Z")
[QUOTE=tanstaafl] There’s a better reference. _Atlas Shrugged_ may be a reach because the character’s name is apparently spelled “Gault”, not “Galt”. However, someone may have found a better match. This is from Doc Jensen’s column in EW Online… [/QUOTE] Ah, I missed the different spelling. The “captain for hire” connection is noted in Lostpedia, too. Not sure why they even noted the _Atlas Shrugged_ reference given the “u” in the name. Have there been any obvious alternative spellings before? I can’t think of any… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/94 "2008-03-14T16:35:22Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] That said, any theory on why pregnant women die? I think the altered time of the island messes up the baby…the baby’s on real time, the mother’s on Island time, or vice versa. Claire got pregnant before the plane crash, so she and the baby never got out of sync. Just a WAG. Take it for what it’s worth. [/QUOTE] Juliet said that sometime in the 2nd trimester the white cell count of the fetus plummets. That’s all we know about the physiology of the condition. I don’t see how that would be tied to different times, though. Also, Claire was 8 months pregnant when she arrived on the Island. The kid could’ve been born at that point without much problem. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/95 "2008-03-14T16:47:45Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] I have a question. After Juliet spills the beans about Sun’s affair, Sun is trying to talk to Jin, saying, “It was a long time ago.” [/quote] You sure she said that? I was actually watching for that line, fearing the writers would put it in her mouth, and was pleased it never came. Did I miss it? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Hogwash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e57/32.png) [@Hogwash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hogwash)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/96 "2008-03-14T16:50:23Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] You sure she said that? I was actually watching for that line, fearing the writers would put it in her mouth, and was pleased it never came. Did I miss it? [/QUOTE] She definitely says it. As Jin is getting the fishing rods together, Sun says: - Jin… - Talk to me. Let me explain. - It was a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/97 "2008-03-14T16:51:01Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] Did I miss it? [/QUOTE] You missed it. She said it. I said, “WTF”? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/98 "2008-03-14T17:39:12Z")
[QUOTE=Kythereia] Daddy Widmore finances the Hanso Foundation and thinks the Dharma project ended in the late 1980s when everybody got purged / packed up or left. Only he finds out about the continued existence of the island through Penny’s guys–that somebody’s there and it’s clearly not the Dharma people–and is sending along a freighter to bust the Others and get Ben Linus, enemy number one. Saving Desmond and the survivors _is_ incidental–as long as they get Ben. [/QUOTE] Except why send the pack of loonies he did? They might need Daniel to get to and from the island safely, but apart from that it seems they’d send a squad of mercenaries to grab Ben - not a pilot, a navigator (Daniel), and two whackos. [QUOTE=UncleRojelio] But, the problem is, the staged crash brought Widmore straight to the island. Are we supposed to think now that Ben is stupid, or that he has a plan? [/QUOTE] Apart from that, why even stage a wreck? A plane disappears - these things happen. The plane went down in the middle of the ocean after a communications failure…I think whomever is responsible would have been perfectly safe just letting the world continue to think that. Gotta be something else. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/99 "2008-03-14T17:41:35Z")
Don’t forget that the plane was 1000 miles off course. They even said in the pilot episode that any rescuers would be looking for them in the wrong place. The Island had stayed hidden for 16 years even with a distress call being broadcast constantly. (Yeah, I know, it was jammed.) Would anyone looking for 815 even have come anywhere near it? ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247/100 "2008-03-14T18:09:02Z")
[QUOTE=cmyk] One of the main reasons why I suspect Jin is still alive, but on the island, is that when Hurley arrived, she told him that she did cry out for Jin in the hospital. The doctors, luckily didn’t question why she’d be calling out for her “dead” husband, cuz she was in distress… however, she was really calling for him because she knew he was still out there… somewhere. So, of course, everyone who “died” in the crash got an empty grave because of the lie that there were only 8 survivors, but only six who made it back. It’s a good proxy for her to visit, knowing she has no way to communicate with him directly. Tricksy writers indeed! Also, they must be keeping with the faked crash story for some reason?! [/QUOTE] It seemed to me that she was on some pretty heavy drugs to help with the labor pains and she said the doctors told her that she was crying out, which indicates that she must have been pretty out of it not to remember. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone in that situation called for a deceased loved one whom they wished was there. I’m not totally convinced either way, but at the grave Sun was really talking like he was dead and not just absent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-07-ji-yeon/441247.md?page=6)