# Lost 4.9: "The Shape of Things to Come" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 24, 2008, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670 "2008-04-24T13:35:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![running\_piglet\_cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/22d042/32.png) [@running\_piglet\_cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_piglet_cheese)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/141 "2008-04-29T05:06:32Z")
Why didn’t the Smoke Monster attack the Losties? They were right there too. What does it actually do the its victims? Are they dead or just scared to death? ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/142 "2008-04-29T12:35:59Z")
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable] What I really enjoyed about the Nikki and Paulo episode was how it took these two characters that people complained came clumsily out of nowhere and were never really integrated into the story or made good use of, and managed to fairly skillfully weave details of their actions into flashbacks to various previous episodes we’d already seen, justifying their existence by at least giving the idea that it had all along had been building up to this nice little morality play culmination episode, even if it hadn’t actually been planned that way at all (I have no idea if it was or not). [/QUOTE] But you know, they were peripheral characters. They didn’t “come clumsily out of nowhere”, they had dialogue, they existed as part of the group. There are dozens of other people from the crash that we almost never see because they’re not part of the in-crowd. I don’t understand why people complained when we had this lovely little sidebar story. Do they imagine that there are a couple dozen people that just exist in a suspended state of animation except when our heroes need people to get shot or carry something big? I thought it was brilliant, and it’s one of my favorite episodes. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/143 "2008-04-29T12:40:41Z")
[QUOTE=running piglet cheese] Why didn’t the Smoke Monster attack the Losties? They were right there too. What does it actually do the its victims? Are they dead or just scared to death? [/QUOTE] Everyone else it’s got its smokey tendrils on with the exception of Locke has been killed, unless I am forgetting someone. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/144 "2008-04-29T13:41:32Z")
Eko survived a first encounter. Not the second one. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/145 "2008-04-29T23:44:04Z")
[QUOTE=NajaNivea] But you know, they were peripheral characters. [/QUOTE] Not in the first two seasons they weren’t. They showed up out of nowhere at the beginning of season three. I’m pretty sure that’s the complaint you were responding to. > [@running piglet cheese](#): > > What does [the Smoke Monster] actually do the its victims? Are they dead or just scared to death? IIRC, it lifted Eko off the ground by his throat, snapped his neck, then dropped him on the ground. Locke lived, but got a scare when the smoke monster grabbed his ankle, dragged him around a bit, and then failed to drag him down into a hole because – again IIRC – the superhuman strength of Kate overpowered the monster in a tug of war. Y’know, when you list out what we’ve actually seen the smoke monster do, it’s a bit of a pussy as far as supernatural monsters go. (No way even remotely possibly it isn’t supernatural.) ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/146 "2008-04-30T00:26:18Z")
[QUOTE=Ellis Dee] Not in the first two seasons they weren’t. They showed up out of nowhere at the beginning of season three. [/QUOTE] They were never in the background as extras? Even if they weren’t, have we ever had the entire line of 49 remaining survivors laid out for us? There are a handful we’ve never seen, but have been referenced as having been captured by the Others or otherwise mysteriously missing. I’m surprised anyone else is surprised by the turning of the camera on previously unexplored characters in existence on the island. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/147 "2008-04-30T00:43:41Z")
[QUOTE=NajaNivea] They were never in the background as extras? [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > Kiele Sanchez (pronounced Kee-Lee) played the character of Nikki during Lost’s third season. Sanchez, Rodrigo Santoro, and Elizabeth Mitchell were the newest members joining the cast of Lost for Season 3, along with former guest stars Henry Ian Cusick and Michael Emerson. > Contents [http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Kiele\_Sanchez](http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Kiele_Sanchez) The producers have said that the Nikki and Paulo subplot was a response to fan requests to find out more about the other characters. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/148 "2008-04-30T00:46:15Z")
Why is the last bit spoilered? That’s exactly my point. There are still several survivors we’ve never seen. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/149 "2008-04-30T00:53:37Z")
[QUOTE=NajaNivea] Why is the last bit spoilered? [/QUOTE] For your protection. 😉 > [@](#): > > That’s exactly my point. There are still several survivors we’ve never seen. I agree. They’ve kept a few back, just so they can kill them off, which is easier if there isn’t story line to tie up. Here’s a chart of the survivors, known and unknown. [http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/List\_of\_Oceanic\_Flight\_815\_survivors](http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/List_of_Oceanic_Flight_815_survivors) Of course, we keep meeting new Others, too. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/150 "2008-04-30T00:55:03Z")
[QUOTE=middleman] Eko survived a first encounter. Not the second one. [/QUOTE] Charlie was right there for Eko’s first encounter and although the smoke just ignored him. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/151 "2008-04-30T12:37:01Z")
[QUOTE=RikWriter] Everyone else it’s got its smokey tendrils on with the exception of Locke has been killed, unless I am forgetting someone. [/QUOTE] Just to add to the list – the smoke monster also killed the pilot (co-pilot) early in season 1. > [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Y’know, when you list out what we’ve actually seen the smoke monster do, it’s a bit of a pussy as far as supernatural monsters go. (No way even remotely possibly it isn’t supernatural.) That’s a mighty thin limb you’ve climbed out on. 🙂 I myself lean toward a theory that the smoke monster is an alien life form that has “crashed” on the island much like the myriad of other various castaways. ---
**Author:** ![Risha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@Risha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Risha)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/152 "2008-04-30T14:47:03Z")
We didn’t watch the episode until a couple of nights ago, so getting to the thread late. A few random items I haven’t seen mentioned yet: - Ben’s/Hallowax’s winter jacket had a new Dharma logo on it. It looked like a bunch of circles or a vortex, with a small object in the middle. Maybe it’s a transportation or teleportation station of some sort? - I was surprised how quickly Sayid managed to find and marry and lose Nadia. If it’s October of 2005 in the flashforward, it gives him, what, nine months or so from current island time? - There’s a picture of what’s most likely the Black Pearl on Widmore’s wall next to his bed. I didn’t get a chance to really look at the other artwork in his bedroom to see if it meant anything. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/153 "2008-04-30T15:02:32Z")
[QUOTE=Risha] We didn’t watch the episode until a couple of nights ago, so getting to the thread late. A few random items I haven’t seen mentioned yet: - Ben’s/Hallowax’s winter jacket had a new Dharma logo on it. It looked like a bunch of circles or a vortex, with a small object in the middle. Maybe it’s a transportation or teleportation station of some sort? [/quote] It was mention WAY up thread. There is some speculation that it is the mysterious “hydra” station. > [@](#): > > - I was surprised how quickly Sayid managed to find and marry and lose Nadia. If it’s October of 2005 in the flashforward, it gives him, what, nine months or so from current island time? I would guess she found him. She was living in L.A. So when he returns, to L.A., she is easily able to track him down. > [@](#): > > There’s a picture of what’s most likely the Black Pearl on Widmore’s wall next to his bed. I didn’t get a chance to really look at the other artwork in his bedroom to see if it meant anything. Nice catch. I’ll have to check it out when this episode gets put on my “On Demand” service. ---
**Author:** ![mshar253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/154 "2008-04-30T15:12:29Z")
Here’s a question: Since CFL, Alex, and Carl are all now dead, did they really contribute anything to the show? Besides capturing Ben (and Sayid, then letting him go), I can’t remember CFL actually having any purpose when she’d sporadically show up. So, although Nikki and Paolo get a lot of the blame for being useless, is there anything to show that the same isn’t true for this “family?” ---
**Author:** ![wasson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/4da419/32.png) [@wasson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wasson)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/155 "2008-04-30T15:20:37Z")
[QUOTE=middleman] It was mention WAY up thread. There is some speculation that it is the mysterious “hydra” station. [/QUOTE] [The Hydra Station](http://lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Hydra) has been pretty well explored. ---
**Author:** ![wasson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/4da419/32.png) [@wasson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wasson)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/156 "2008-04-30T15:24:43Z")
[QUOTE=mshar253] Since CFL, Alex, and Carl are all now dead, did they really contribute anything to the show? Besides capturing Ben (and Sayid, then letting him go), I can’t remember CFL actually having any purpose when she’d sporadically show up. So, although Nikki and Paolo get a lot of the blame for being useless, is there anything to show that the same isn’t true for this “family?” [/QUOTE] CFL also rescued Claire from the Others, and led the troops to the radio tower, and led them to the dynamite, and gave Hurley that battery… she’s been more useful than most people on the island. Carl also let Sawyer out of his cage when he was captured by the Others, gave the Losties that boat, and at least tried to warn them that Juliet was a spy. Alex rescued Sawyer and Kate as they ran away from the Others and helped get them to safety. Alex was also instrumental in getting Claire away from them before they could steal Aaron. Also, without Carl and Alex, we wouldn’t know anything about that creepy brainwash room the Others have, which I still want to see more of. Nikki and Paolo did a whole lot less in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/157 "2008-04-30T15:29:18Z")
[QUOTE=wasson] [The Hydra Station](http://lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Hydra) has been pretty well explored. [/QUOTE] I’m sorry. I meant the Orchid station. The one referenced in one of the Lost Experience games. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/158 "2008-04-30T15:31:17Z")
[QUOTE=Algernon] Just to add to the list – the smoke monster also killed the pilot (co-pilot) early in season 1. That’s a mighty thin limb you’ve climbed out on. 🙂 I myself lean toward a theory that the smoke monster is an alien life form that has “crashed” on the island much like the myriad of other various castaways. [/QUOTE] As Russeau said (last episode, Season 1), “It’s a defense mechanism.” I lean towards swarm of nano-robots. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/159 "2008-04-30T15:54:57Z")
[QUOTE=Risha] Ben’s/Hallowax’s winter jacket had a new Dharma logo on it. It looked like a bunch of circles or a vortex, with a small object in the middle. Maybe it’s a transportation or teleportation station of some sort? [/QUOTE] Good catch. [Here’s a photo](http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Bensparkalogo_Final3.jpg) from lostpedia, and note that: > [@](#): > > DHARMA logo seen on the breast of the parka worn by Ben has yet to be introduced in the series. It features concentric circles surrounding an unknown object. > > ``` > * This parka also has the name "Halliwax" emblazoned on the left breast. > * This logo is the first to have different I Ching lines. > > ``` Also: > [@](#): > > The symbols on Ben’s secret room door appear to be hieroglyphics that are Determinative Signs In Egyptian > > ``` > * A basic translation of these hieroglyphics is "to summon protection" > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670/160 "2008-04-30T16:48:10Z")
re Sayid: I think since he’s one of the “Oceanic 6” he gets a lot of attention when he gets back, which leads to him and Nadia finding one another. But why would Widmore want to kill her? If he did it, I suspect he was trying to get Sayid, as Widmore doesn’t want people running around who know about “his” island. And if Ben was behind it - well that just sucks. regarding “superfluous” characters: I don’t think every loose end, every character reference has to be interconnected for the show to be successful. We had a bunch of people who crashed on an interesting island in the middle of an ongoing power struggle. We get to know these people, and some of the people on the island. Some live, some die. If some don’t make it to the end of the series, doesn’t mean their story was less interesting or worthwhile. Makes it more layered and more interesting, I think. For ex, Alex is now a big motivator for Ben - and the fact that we know what we know of her, Karl and Rousseau just adds to the whole gestalt of the thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-4-9-the-shape-of-things-to-come/446670.md?page=9)