# Lost 5.10 "He's Our You" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 25, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774 "2009-03-25T18:36:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/41 "2009-03-26T14:19:16Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > According to Faraday he can’t be killed. Well, it’s not that he can’t be killed exactly, it’s just that nothing they do can change how the future they’ve experienced turns out. Young Ben could die and the island brings him back, or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![mshar253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/42 "2009-03-26T14:27:59Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > I don’t think JAck is going to save his life. I think it’s Juliet, and she’s going to nurture him, try to change him by giving him some love and direction, thus setting up the creepy bond that he has with her once he becomes an adult, and when she’s 3 years younger than she is now… Which I guess would explain the quote from someone in the fourth season, when the person said, “Well, she _does_ look like her.” ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/43 "2009-03-26T14:44:23Z")
Which means that Juliette (and presumably the O6+3) will escape from Dharma and end up with the others–'cause the “She does look like her” was from an Other. ---
**Author:** ![Shark\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Shark\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/44 "2009-03-26T14:44:25Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > Well, it’s not that he can’t be killed exactly, it’s just that nothing they do can change how the future they’ve experienced turns out. Young Ben could die and the island brings him back, or something like that. Yeah, I agree with this too. It’s a common sc-fi meme that comes up in time travel dorm-room-bong discussion. “You’re sent back in time to pre-WWII Austria, and your mission is to assassinate a young Adolf Hitler. When you find him, he’s playing outdoors with his friends, an innocent 6-year old. Would you be able to pull the trigger?” I think the show last night was doing a bit of a riff on this, and it showed that Sayid was definitely capable of doing it. I think Cecil even did an article on this. Some believe the universe has a set of “rules” to avoid cosmic paradoxes or splintered realities. Since we know Adolf grows up, you wouldn’t be _able_ to kill him. The gun would jam, or you’d miss, or you’d hit him but he’d be found and given medical attention and survive. Don’t know how this adds to the thread, but I thought the parrellel was interesting. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/45 "2009-03-26T15:19:23Z")
The book Sayid received was by Carlos Castaneda. He wrote about time travel. I have never read his stuff, but I know who he is because of the joke from the Simpson’s Halloween Time Travel segment where Homer said, “I’m the first non-Brazilian to travel through time!” ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/46 "2009-03-26T16:37:18Z")
I think it’s interesting that Sawyer seems to like living in Dharmaville. He told Juliet and Sayid that he’s got a good life going there and he doesn’t want to mess it up. I don’t think Kate will be able to get between those two. Except if it’s for a bullet that she jumps in front of to save Sawyer’s life. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/47 "2009-03-26T16:59:52Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > My favorite line was Ben telling Sayid: “Mission Accomplished.” What a prick! I missed that one. Ouch. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Wasn’t the book Ben gave Sayid called Separate Realities? As soon as I saw it, I thought he might kill Ben and realize later that it does not make “our Ben” disappear. > [@middleman](#): > > The book Sayid received was by Carlos Castaneda. He wrote about time travel. I have never read his stuff, but I know who he is because of the joke from the Simpson’s Halloween Time Travel segment where Homer said, “I’m the first non-Brazilian to travel through time!” Yep and yep. I actually have the exact book, same cover and all; that was kind of a fun WTF moment. It’s been a while since I’ve read it, but flipping through it, it was the one that went into “seeing” and, more to to the point I think, how a “warrior” finds and engages with his “ally”. Sorry for the lack of the details, it’s a weird book and it’s been a while since I’ve read it. Flipping through though, I caught this little bit that was interesting, and perhaps relevant; don Juan describing an ally to Carlos… > [@](#): > > They are different for every man and so are the allies. For you an ally would apparently look like a man you once knew, or like a man you will always be about to know; that’s the bent of your nature. You are given to mysteries and secrets. I’m not like you, so an ally for me is something very precise. ---
**Author:** ![MakeSweetPassionateSenseToMe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3e96dc/32.png) [@MakeSweetPassionateSenseToMe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MakeSweetPassionateSenseToMe)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/48 "2009-03-26T17:00:01Z")
A couple of things occurred to me with this episode. One, Perhaps Sayid’s shooting of Ben is precisely what led Ben towards becoming the absolute rotten bastard that he eventually turned into. He trusted the Sayid and even went so far as to sacrifice his own standing in the camp to attempt a prison break and his payback? a shot to the chest by the very man he put himself at risk to help. Secondly, I thought about the list from Season 2, Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sawyer…All people that young Ben would know…SOMETHING about if he survives (Jack IS a surgeon after all, and one that Ben KNOWS is a surgeon…maybe Jack saves him again?) The Lack of Sayid, Jin, and Miles on said list might have something to say about their eventual fates…just a theory though. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/49 "2009-03-26T17:53:37Z")
I’m not sure if this is a spoiler, but according to my DVR player + TV Guide, next week’s episode is about Kate tries to save Ben’s life – and takes drastic measures to do so – when _Jack refuses to help_. Meanwhile, Kate begins to tell the truth about the lie in order to protect Aaron. ---
**Author:** ![Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f1d935/32.png) [@Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dilton_Doiley_Philosopher_King)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/50 "2009-03-26T18:06:28Z")
I think that 1977 Ben really is dead. We last saw adult Ben being hit on the head by Sun, but we know he is now in the “sick ward” from the Ajira landing. Maybe he quickly recovered from the oar-blow, but is now actually in the hospital bed because he is “supposed” to be dead, having been killed 30 years earlier. Here’s what I think happened: Ben #1 grows up to be ten, on the island, until he is killed by Sayid. Ben #1 is dead for 30 years. Ben #3 wakes up in 2007 in the hospital bed on the island. He finds a way to go back to 1977 (using the FDW), essentially resurrecting Ben #1 at age 10, creating Ben #2. Ben is resurrected (as Ben #2) at age 10 because his ‘consciousness’ transported from 2007 to 1977, similar to how Desmond’s conscious is transplanted. Ben #2 lives Ben’s life from 1977 to 2007. Ben has been a zombie (and the leader of the island) for the past 30 years, but he didn’t become a zombie until he was resurrected on the island in 2007. Does this mean that post-Sayid young Ben has 2007 Ben’s memories? If so, it seems that’s a good explanation for Ben killing his father. If not, then maybe young Ben is reincarnated, but doesn’t know why, and so people like Richard think he’s “special” and meant to be their leader, when it was really a fluke in the system. Perhaps if Richard is an ancient Egyptian, then his old mythologies about the island bringing its leaders back to life might still play a role in their modern beliefs about the island. This is similar to the compass (and some other items of the island) that Richard gave Locke. The compass appeared in Richard’s world when Locke gave it to him; it disappeared from Richard’s world when he gave it back to Locke. It blinked in and out of existence. What does this say about Jacob? Has he been consciousness traveling so much, similar to Ben #3 becoming Ben #2, that he is only available during those few short moments when he blinks in and out of existence on the island? ---
**Author:** ![Alias](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@Alias](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alias)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/51 "2009-03-26T18:24:27Z")
> [@Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](#): > > I think that 1977 Ben really is dead. We last saw adult Ben being hit on the head by Sun, but we know he is now in the “sick ward” from the Ajira landing. Maybe he quickly recovered from the oar-blow, but is now actually in the hospital bed because he is “supposed” to be dead, having been killed 30 years earlier. > > Here’s what I think happened: > > Ben #1 grows up to be ten, on the island, until he is killed by Sayid. Ben #1 is dead for 30 years. > > Ben #3 wakes up in 2007 in the hospital bed on the island. He finds a way to go back to 1977 (using the FDW), essentially resurrecting Ben #1 at age 10, creating Ben #2. > > Ben is resurrected (as Ben #2) at age 10 because his ‘consciousness’ transported from 2007 to 1977, similar to how Desmond’s conscious is transplanted. Ben #2 lives Ben’s life from 1977 to 2007. Ben has been a zombie (and the leader of the island) for the past 30 years, but he didn’t become a zombie until he was resurrected on the island in 2007. > > Does this mean that post-Sayid young Ben has 2007 Ben’s memories? If so, it seems that’s a good explanation for Ben killing his father. If not, then maybe young Ben is reincarnated, but doesn’t know why, and so people like Richard think he’s “special” and meant to be their leader, when it was really a fluke in the system. Perhaps if Richard is an ancient Egyptian, then his old mythologies about the island bringing its leaders back to life might still play a role in their modern beliefs about the island. > > This is similar to the compass (and some other items of the island) that Richard gave Locke. The compass appeared in Richard’s world when Locke gave it to him; it disappeared from Richard’s world when he gave it back to Locke. It blinked in and out of existence. What does this say about Jacob? Has he been consciousness traveling so much, similar to Ben #3 becoming Ben #2, that he is only available during those few short moments when he blinks in and out of existence on the island? Oh dear God. I think you broke my brain. ---
**Author:** ![Greywolf73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d9b06d/32.png) [@Greywolf73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greywolf73)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/52 "2009-03-26T18:29:12Z")
There’s no way Ben’s really dead. My guess is that Sayid returned that book back to him, which Ben then put into his jacket or shirt pocket. Like Faraday keeps saying, you can’t change the past. Something will always prevent that. Somehow, some way the bullet is mostly deflected by that book. The book on time travel. 😃 Someone on another board guessed that next week we’ll see a scene with 2007 Ben on the island, shirtless which exposes his chest with an ugly scar from being shot when he was 10. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/53 "2009-03-26T18:31:07Z")
> [@Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](#): > > Ben #1 grows up to be ten, on the island, until he is killed by Sayid. Ben #1 is dead for 30 years. But if he died in 1977, how could he live to be an adult in the present day? There would have been no purge, he wouldn’t be the leader of the Others, the original Oceanic survivors never would have met him on the Island to begin with, etc. etc. I think it’s much simpler, and makes much more sense, that the young Ben in 1977 is simply not actually dead. Unless they want to go into the whole alternate/parallel universe type thing, but I don’t think that’s where they’re going. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/54 "2009-03-26T18:35:54Z")
> [@Greywolf73](#): > > Someone on another board guessed that next week we’ll see a scene with 2007 Ben on the island, shirtless which exposes his chest with an ugly scar from being shot when he was 10. Ha! I was thinking the same thing & trying to remember if we’ve ever seen Ben shirtless. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/55 "2009-03-26T19:07:30Z")
I’m under the impression that Ben will be the _very first casualty that the island healed_ since Sayid’s action was a direct action of a survivor (who came from the future) that killed someone from the past. The island then begins to “self-correct” these paradoxes, and does so from 1977 onward. Remember the pregnant woman’s first husband killed by the Others? D-E-A-D…no come-backy. When Ben comes back; Alpert sees that as a sign of a leader. Ethan and Goodwin…D-E-A-D because they were killed while everyone was on the same time line. Something else is missing from the puzzle regarding Locke being shot by Ben and whether or not he actually died and whether or not this was the sign Alpert was looking for regarding Locke being a new leader for the others. I’m pulling this straight out of my butt, of course. Someone please shoot this turkey down out of the sky. ---
**Author:** ![Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f1d935/32.png) [@Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dilton_Doiley_Philosopher_King)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/56 "2009-03-26T19:16:12Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > But if he died in 1977, how could he live to be an adult in the present day? There would have been no purge, he wouldn’t be the leader of the Others, the original Oceanic survivors never would have met him on the Island to begin with, etc. etc. > > I think it’s much simpler, and makes much more sense, that the young Ben in 1977 is simply not actually dead. > > Unless they want to go into the whole alternate/parallel universe type thing, but I don’t think that’s where they’re going. Both Locke and Christian were re-incarnated after being physically dead, what is wrong with assuming the same happened to Ben? Perhaps it’s not because they’re “special”, but it’s that the island is “correcting things”, as **Yeticus Rex** suggested. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/57 "2009-03-26T19:16:47Z")
Did anyone see what Oldham’s Dharma job title was? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Composer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@The\_Composer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Composer)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/58 "2009-03-26T19:21:13Z")
When Jack was captured to operate on Ben the first time, does anyone remember what it was? Was it a tumor? Maybe the “tumor” was the bullet from 1977 encased in scar tissue. ---
**Author:** ![Shark\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Shark\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/59 "2009-03-26T20:03:54Z")
So does present day Ben remember Sayid from the past now or not? I think if someone shot me when I was 10, I’d remember what they looked like my whole life. Also, they got _just_ up to the point before ben gets his butt kicked before the flight to Quam. I guess it’s safe to assume that it wasn’t Sayid that gave him the beat-down. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/60 "2009-03-26T20:06:08Z")
> [@Shark\_Sandwich](#): > > Also, they got _just_ up to the point before ben gets his butt kicked before the flight to Quam. I guess it’s safe to assume that it wasn’t Sayid that gave him the beat-down. Sayid indeed seems to have been otherwise occupied at the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774.md?page=4)