# Lost 5.10 "He's Our You" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 25, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774 "2009-03-25T18:36:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/61 "2009-03-26T20:06:33Z")
> [@The\_Composer](#): > > When Jack was captured to operate on Ben the first time, does anyone remember what it was? Was it a tumor? > > Maybe the “tumor” was the bullet from 1977 encased in scar tissue. Yeah, but the reason they needed Jack instead of Juliet was that the tumor was on Ben’s spinal cord, IIRC. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/62 "2009-03-26T20:08:13Z")
> [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > I’m under the impression that Ben will be the _very first casualty that the island healed_ since Sayid’s action was a direct action of a survivor (who came from the future) that killed someone from the past. The island then begins to “self-correct” these paradoxes, and does so from 1977 onward. Remember the pregnant woman’s first husband killed by the Others? D-E-A-D…no come-backy. When Ben comes back; Alpert sees that as a sign of a leader. > > Ethan and Goodwin…D-E-A-D because they were killed while everyone was on the same time line. > > Something else is missing from the puzzle regarding Locke being shot by Ben and whether or not he actually died and whether or not this was the sign Alpert was looking for regarding Locke being a new leader for the others. > > I’m pulling this straight out of my butt, of course. Someone please shoot this turkey down out of the sky. Let me add that Ethan could also have been the last baby _conceived and born_ on the island as because of the island’s paradoxes being corrected, although Aaron (born only), Alex (born only) and Sun’s kid (conceived only) are partial exceptions to the rule…although I’m not sure I remember Alex’s boyfriend’s origins. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/63 "2009-03-26T20:33:40Z")
> [@Shark\_Sandwich](#): > > So does present day Ben remember Sayid from the past now or not? I think if someone shot me when I was 10, I’d remember what they looked like my whole life. I think the implication is that yes, Ben has remembered Sayid this entire time. > [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > When Ben comes back; Alpert sees that as a sign of a leader. This wouldn’t surprise me. Alpert has been shown a few times to be trying to locate and test for a new leader. There are a few similarities between Ben and Locke, and I wouldn’t be surprised if those are the qualities the Others’ leader is supposed to have. Maybe there’s a prophesy somewhere talking about a leader to come who will rise from the dead. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/64 "2009-03-26T20:38:40Z")
I suspect Ben was “mostly” dead. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/65 "2009-03-26T20:47:08Z")
> [@Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](#): > > I think that 1977 Ben really is dead. We last saw adult Ben being hit on the head by Sun, but we know he is now in the “sick ward” from the Ajira landing. Maybe he quickly recovered from the oar-blow, but is now actually in the hospital bed because he is “supposed” to be dead, having been killed 30 years earlier. > > Here’s what I think happened: > > Ben #1 grows up to be ten, on the island, until he is killed by Sayid. Ben #1 is dead for 30 years. > > Ben #3 wakes up in 2007 in the hospital bed on the island. He finds a way to go back to 1977 (using the FDW), essentially resurrecting Ben #1 at age 10, creating Ben #2. > > Ben is resurrected (as Ben #2) at age 10 because his ‘consciousness’ transported from 2007 to 1977, similar to how Desmond’s conscious is transplanted. Ben #2 lives Ben’s life from 1977 to 2007. Ben has been a zombie (and the leader of the island) for the past 30 years, but he didn’t become a zombie until he was resurrected on the island in 2007. > > Does this mean that post-Sayid young Ben has 2007 Ben’s memories? If so, it seems that’s a good explanation for Ben killing his father. If not, then maybe young Ben is reincarnated, but doesn’t know why, and so people like Richard think he’s “special” and meant to be their leader, when it was really a fluke in the system. Perhaps if Richard is an ancient Egyptian, then his old mythologies about the island bringing its leaders back to life might still play a role in their modern beliefs about the island. > > This is similar to the compass (and some other items of the island) that Richard gave Locke. The compass appeared in Richard’s world when Locke gave it to him; it disappeared from Richard’s world when he gave it back to Locke. It blinked in and out of existence. What does this say about Jacob? Has he been consciousness traveling so much, similar to Ben #3 becoming Ben #2, that he is only available during those few short moments when he blinks in and out of existence on the island? I think it is much more likely that he just didn’t die. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/66 "2009-03-26T20:53:10Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > I think it is much more likely that he just didn’t die. Exactly. I think it’s going to boil down to two possible things. One, is the idea a ways above that this whole paradox that Sayid just created is what has made the island so generally screwy over the last thirty years. Two, is plastic time and that Ben isn’t dead. He might not even have actually been hit, or there was some odd occurrence (he always carries his lucky hunk of lead in his shirt pocket) that kept him alive. A tiny passing bird actually took the bullet instead, but since it was dark we didn’t see it. SOMETHING. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/67 "2009-03-26T21:51:56Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Exactly. I think it’s going to boil down to two possible things. > > One, is the idea a ways above that this whole paradox that Sayid just created is what has made the island so generally screwy over the last thirty years. > > Two, is plastic time and that Ben isn’t dead. He might not even have actually been hit, or there was some odd occurrence (he always carries his lucky hunk of lead in his shirt pocket) that kept him alive. A tiny passing bird actually took the bullet instead, but since it was dark we didn’t see it. SOMETHING. > > -Joe It seems like it was weird before this event. Ben saw his ghost mom. Richard was already ageless. There was a statue of some four toed god. After this episode, I went on ABC and re-watched “The Man Behind the Curtain” (the purge episode), and something interesting grabbed my attention. In the class scene when Ben is a boy, they are discussing volcanoes. One girl asks, “Is that what happened to the volcano on this island?” The teacher replies “Yes, but that was a long time ago.” Was this a throwaway line, reassuring the kids that the volcano was dormant? Or was it substantial? One of the Atlantis myths credit a volcano for sinking the island. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/68 "2009-03-26T22:08:12Z")
Can anyone remember if in the previous episodes did Ben have a bullet scar in him? I feel like we must have seen him with his shirt off when he was captured by the Losties the first time or when Jack was operating on him. If he had a scar then it would explain a lot, though I’m not sure I expect them to get that type of continuity thing correct. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/69 "2009-03-26T22:32:02Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Unless they want to go into the whole alternate/parallel universe type thing, but I don’t think that’s where they’re going. Perhaps it was only the cover, and not the content, of the book that was important. \*A Seperate Reality \*(?) ---
**Author:** ![Pyper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pyper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyper)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/70 "2009-03-27T03:14:07Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > H > > They explained why he quit, but they didn’t (to my satisfaction anyway) explain why Sayid suddenly started distrusting Ben and wanting vengeance against him. I get the impression though that we were shown all that we’re gonna be shown and either I just didn’t get it, or it was written poorly. Anyone else get a sense of why Ben’s little speech was enough to turn Sayid so completely against him? I agree that this is a major plothole. SAYID: I’ve killed a bunch of people for you! Give me more people to kill! BEN: Sorry, no more people to kill. Have a nice life! SAYID: Hmph, well, okay. _three years later_ BEN: Actually, there is one more person to kill. SAYID: How DARE you ask me to kill someone! _begins plotting revenge_ ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Owl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@Mister\_Owl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Owl)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/71 "2009-03-27T03:15:44Z")
The Castaneda books aren’t about time travel per se, but rather about his introduction to and induction into Yaqui Indian shamanism. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/72 "2009-03-27T03:45:49Z")
> [@Pyper](#): > > I agree that this is a major plothole. > > SAYID: I’ve killed a bunch of people for you! Give me more people to kill! > > BEN: Sorry, no more people to kill. Have a nice life! > > SAYID: Hmph, well, okay. > > _three years later_ > > BEN: Actually, there is one more person to kill. > > SAYID: How DARE you ask me to kill someone! _begins plotting revenge_ Sayid had been killing all these people thinking that it was leading to some great end and then Ben left him in the lurch. Sayid realized that Ben was just using and tried to go and lead a normal life. Ben then shows up and tells Sayid the only thing that he’s good at is killing people. Which pisses him off because he knows its true. And Sayid wasn’t actively planning a revenge, he just realized that Ben is a horrible horrible person. ---
**Author:** ![Qwisp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qwisp/32/397_2.png) [@Qwisp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwisp)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/73 "2009-03-27T05:08:20Z")
I think he realizes he’s been killing for Ben, and not for a greater good.Given time to think about it he realizes he was manipulated. He eventually goes to see if someone really is threatening Hurley because his conscience will not let him leave Hugo in danger. He still doesn’t trust Ben at this point though, and know Ben only does stuff for Ben’s benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/74 "2009-03-27T06:07:47Z")
Easter Egg alert: a comment in the lost podcast thingie says that [this Russian text](http://www.getlostpodcastmedia.com/wp-content/gallery/5x10-easter-eggs/russian-text.jpg) translates to “Oldham Pharmaceuticals”. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/75 "2009-03-27T13:44:35Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > Easter Egg alert: a comment in the lost podcast thingie says that [this Russian text](http://www.getlostpodcastmedia.com/wp-content/gallery/5x10-easter-eggs/russian-text.jpg) translates to “Oldham Pharmaceuticals”. It’s not a translation though. It’s a phonetic transliteration of the English word. ---
**Author:** ![nofloyd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nofloyd/32/2870_2.png) [@nofloyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nofloyd)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/76 "2009-03-30T20:03:11Z")
Yes, a bloody easter egg, Oldham’s the He’s Our You guy (Larry), done just to screw with us. \ And what happened to Bernard and Rose and others? They should be in the 70s too, right? Who else was with them when they split up? I can’t remember - any other named characters we were introduced too? Co-opted by the others? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/77 "2009-03-30T21:17:26Z")
I’m thinking we haven’t seen nearly enough of Miles, or specifically, any development of his “talking-to-the-dead” powers. He’s been there, but all he’s done since he identified the corpses of Rousseau and her daughter was make snarky comments. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/78 "2009-03-30T21:31:25Z")
> [@Shark\_Sandwich](#): > > Also, they got _just_ up to the point before ben gets his butt kicked before the flight to Quam. I guess it’s safe to assume that it wasn’t Sayid that gave him the beat-down. I think it’s been pretty obvious since the episode when Ben got the beat-down that it has something to do with him going on his mission to “keep a promise to an old friend” – i.e. go try to kill Penny, like he told Widmore he was going to do. The first we saw Ben with the beaten-up look was at a phone at a dock. Desmond and Penny live and travel around on their boat. So I’m thinking – either he managed to kill Penny, and he got beaten up in the process. OR… he didn’t manage to kill Penny, and he got beaten up in the process… I’m really hoping it’s the latter. I like Desmond and Penny. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/79 "2009-03-30T21:44:09Z")
Yeah I’m more and more creeped out the longer we go without hearing from Desmond. There is still a slight chance that Ben is, while an incredible bastard, at least working towards some unknown good end that he at least feels justifies things he’s done. But if he’s killed Penny, I want to see him burn! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774/80 "2009-03-30T22:06:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Did anyone see what Oldham’s Dharma job title was? Anyone? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-10-hes-our-you/490774.md?page=5)