# Lost 5.12 "Dead is Dead"
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [April 8, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412 "2009-04-08T18:34:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/1 "2009-04-08T18:34:52Z")
Thread rules:
> [@](#):
>
> Information about all episodes aired to this point – including the current week – will be unboxed.
> Information about this week’s episode’s “next week” teasers will be unboxed.
> Information about future episodes taken from spoiler sites/inside sources, including Podcasts, will be boxed. This includes links to promo photos and screencaps from future episodes.
> Speculation based on events in episodes aired up to this point (including teasers) will be unboxed.
> Speculation based on spoilers for upcoming episodes will be boxed.
>
> Please remember, links inside spoiler boxes are readable even to those who don’t highlight.
From the on-line description for tonight’s episode:
**Dead is Dead**
Ben must try to call the smoke monster to atone for sins of the past.
**Some useful Café Society links are given below:**
Thread index for Season 1 Episodes: [1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=277083) [2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=278382) [3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=279542) [4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=280792) [5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=281998) [6](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=283328) [7](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284665) [8](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=285925) [9](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=287237) [10](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=289514) [11](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=290718) [12](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=295320) [13](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=296591) [14](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=297760) [15](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=301602) [16](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=302710) [17](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=303909) [18](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=304986) [19](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=309511) [20](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=310613) [21](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=315048) [22](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=316088) [23](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=317139) [24](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=318051)
Thread index for Season 2 Episodes: [1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=335991) [2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=337167) [3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=338307) [4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=339366) [5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=340432) [6](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=343878) [7](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=345144) [8](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=346239) [9](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=347177) [10](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=353542) [11](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=354691) [12](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=355716) [13](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=357834) [14](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=359015) [15](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=361048) [16](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=363982) [17](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=365010) [18](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=366081) [19](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=367064) [20](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=370033) [21](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=371010) [22](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=371991)
Thread index for Season 3 episodes: [1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=390771) [2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=391722) [3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=392661) [4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=393629) [5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=394542) [6](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=395368) [7](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=407398) [8](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=408446) [9](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=409378) [10](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=410362) [11](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=411321) [12](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=412292) [13](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=413323) [14](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=414347) [15](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=415259) [16](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=416195) [17](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=417197) [18](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=418222) [19](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=419145) [20](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=420116) [21](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=421113) [22](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=421996)
Thread index for Season 4 episodes: [1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=453462) [2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=454618) [3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=455630) [4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=456811) [5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=457801) [6](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=458668) [7](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=459619) [8](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=460501) [9](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=465277) [10](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=466249) [11](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=467236) [12](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=468178)
Thread index for Season 5 episodes [1-2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=502879) [3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=504002) [4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=505081) [5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=506072) [6](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=507159) [7](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508184) [8](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=509123) [9](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=510798) [10](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=511706) [11](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=512553)
[The Official Lost Jargon Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=286221)
Official “Lost” Questions Thread[Season 1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284542), [Season 2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=336040), [Season 3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=390739)
**Here are some interesting external links:**
[The Tail Section](http://www.thetailsection.com/): Excellent site for still frame photos of key scenes, along with some good analysis. But… beware of spoilers!
[Sledgeweb’s Lost… Stuff](http://lost.cubit.net/): Pretty good site, but again beware of spoilers. I use it mainly for the Timeline section, which is an incredibly detailed breakdown of “how long since…?” for almost anything you can think of (pre- and post-plane crash).
[Door Map from Episode 2.17](http://www.thetailsection.com/uploaded_images/cleanwall-707484.jpg). A nicely cleaned up version of the diagram Locke saw while pinned under the lockdown doors. No spoilers.
[Lostpedia](http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Main_Page): The wikipedia of Lost information. Quite a comprehensive site, but beware of spoilers!
## [ThEmIsFiTiShErE](http://themisfitishere.blogspot.com/): The Misfit offers his whacky commentary on “Lost”. Is he a nut-case or a clever insider? Careful, though, possible spoilers.
Just last week, I said something about trusting the title of the episode. And now we’ve got an episode titled “Dead is Dead” with John Locke up and walking about.
I don’t know what to believe anymore.
Either way, tonight looks to be interesting.
---
### Author:  [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/2 "2009-04-08T20:23:36Z")
Just thinking here, but maybe the reason Ben and Widmore know that they can’t kill each other is because they’ve both seen each other at a later point in their personal histories? i.e. whatever happened, happened. Though of course, we don’t really know for sure how much Ben and Widmore even know about time travel in general.
---
### Author:  [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/3 "2009-04-08T21:07:53Z")
Just noticed that the spoiler text from the first post is showing up in the mouseover on the main page…might want to add some filler text to the beginning for future episodes…
---
### Author:  [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/4 "2009-04-08T21:20:11Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#):
>
> Just thinking here, but maybe the reason Ben and Widmore know that they can’t kill each other is because they’ve both seen each other at a later point in their personal histories? i.e. whatever happened, happened. Though of course, we don’t really know for sure how much Ben and Widmore even know about time travel in general.
This makes sense. Widmore saw Locke back in the 50s, and was funding Daniel’s research. Ben knew that turning the wheel would move him in time. They both have some knowledge of how the time travel works.
---
### Author:  [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/5 "2009-04-08T21:23:48Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#):
>
> Just noticed that the spoiler text from the first post is showing up in the mouseover on the main page…might want to add some filler text to the beginning for future episodes…
Damn! Sorry about that guys. If a passing mod could add a few lines, I’d appreciate it. And I’ll make sure that’s fixed next time.
---
### Author:  [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/6 "2009-04-08T22:40:30Z")
Note that the final “secret” scene of this season is now officially called… “The Fork In The Outlet”
I sort of wanted “Baby Diaper covered in Barbecue Sauce” to win myself.
---
### Author:  [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/7 "2009-04-09T01:05:31Z")
So they have a horse on the island, in Other Village!
Ben’s going to be judged by… the Monstre…? 😃
---
### Author:  [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/8 "2009-04-09T01:15:20Z")
“I killed him? Really, because he looks fine to me…!”
## And now Ben is planting suspicions in the rest of the Ajira 315 bunch. Ha – what a rat.
Ben: “That’s why I did it. It was in the best interests of the island.”
Locke: “I was just hoping for an apology.”
Nice.
---
### Author:  [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichini_Sanshigo)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/9 "2009-04-09T01:17:36Z")
Damn, Ben!
---
### Author:  [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/10 "2009-04-09T01:17:42Z")
“My main man” guy!!!
No!!!
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### Author:  [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/11 "2009-04-09T01:18:10Z")
That … was pretty awesome. And there’s still 42 minutes left!
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### Author:  [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/12 "2009-04-09T01:20:42Z")
Whoa. Ben, why does it still surprise me that you are a homicidal asshole?
---
### Author:  [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/13 "2009-04-09T01:26:22Z")
and wow. in the flashback Widmore is more of a homicidal meanie than Ben!
---
### Author:  [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/14 "2009-04-09T01:33:49Z")
John is really eager to see Ben get “judged” by the Smoke Beastie! Almost gleeful, in a reserved way.
---
### Author:  [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/15 "2009-04-09T01:38:21Z")
And Ben ejects Widmore from the island! and Ben may be a maniac, but he did love Alex.
---
### Author:  [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/16 "2009-04-09T01:40:10Z")
And of course Ben was lying to John – “I figured this would happen.” (about him coming back from the dead).
Or is he lying to Sun? “Dead is dead. The fact that John is walking around again… scares the hell out of me.”
Because he did give Jack that whole speech about the Resurrection and Thomas the Doubter, back in the church in L.A., after they saw Ms. Hawking.
* * *
Ben: “Dead is dead.”
Monstre: “ooooh, look who knows so much… as it happens, your friend was only **mostly** dead…”
---
### Author:  [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/17 "2009-04-09T01:49:11Z")
Locke is in Gloat Mode.
Nice – Desmond beat the crap out of Ben. 🙂
Now… which item in the grocery bag stopped the bullet?
---
### Author:  [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichini_Sanshigo)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/18 "2009-04-09T01:49:29Z")
Damn, Des!
---
### Author:  [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/19 "2009-04-09T01:55:33Z")
Yeah, Ilana was on the plane for a reason. Probably one of Widmore’s people – like some folks were speculating in the last thread (that he had some people on the plane).
---
### Author:  [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/20 "2009-04-09T02:03:56Z")
MAKE THE BAD B-MOVIE SCIFI SPECIAL EFFECTS STOP
Michael Emerson doesn’t need the bad special effects to pull off the scene. Seriously, I wish they could have done the Smoke Monster scene differently, because when you can tell they were directing the actor to ‘look right here!’ it takes you out of the scene.
**Monstre** , last episode Ilana told Sayid she was hired on behalf of someone that he had killed - I’m guessing the victim was one of Widmore’s peeps.
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