# Lost 5.12 "Dead is Dead" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 8, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412 "2009-04-08T18:34:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/121 "2009-04-10T18:36:51Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Any speculations on what happens next to Sayid after shooting Lil Ben? Will Smoke Monster get him? It just occurred to me today how similar Sayid’s recent flashback with the brother and the killing-the-chicken problem is to Eko’s backstory. Now I am indeed scared that the Smoke Monster will get Sayid. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/122 "2009-04-10T20:25:05Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > I’d also like a little backstory on how Jin melded with the Dharmites. What story did he give them? Jin was with Sawyer’s gang. They all joined together. ---
**Author:** ![Pyper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pyper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyper)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/123 "2009-04-10T20:41:12Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > I’d also like a little backstory on how Jin melded with the Dharmites. What story did he give them? Jin’s story is the same as the story that Sawyer concocted for the other Losties who were jumping through time - he was part of a crew of a salvage vessel that crashed on the island. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/124 "2009-04-10T21:16:58Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I’m think that Dharma was investigating whatever is going on with the heiroglyphs and all that. Remember that the hatch timer turned to hieroglyphics when the timer ran out. So I bet the doorway was there the whole time and then Dharma built around it. Yeah, I was wondering if the temple was going to somehow tie in with Defcon Penguin. > [@well he's back](#): > > I’d also like a little backstory on how Jin melded with the Dharmites. What story did he give them? What do you mean? As far as the Dharmies know, Jin was part of “LaFleur’s” group that wrecked on the island. What other story does Jin need that Sawyer, Miles, Juliet, (and maybe Faraday) don’t? Why he didn’t speak english well? ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/125 "2009-04-10T21:33:43Z")
sorry. I thought Jin ran into the Dharma folks at a separate time from Sawyer, Juliet, etc. and that he had to come up with his own story. Confused about “Lost”. How could _that_ happen. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/126 "2009-04-10T21:48:34Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Was it just me or when the smoke monstre started swirling around Ben did you expect him to yell “It’s beautiful!” then watch his face melt off? Yes! Of course, the whole Indy vibe of the scene helped. Has anyone considered that Ben carved the hieroglyphics under his househimself? You know, dug himself a little Monster-summoning terminal? Also, I’m curious about Richard Alpert. He seems to be outside the regular Other chain of command. That, combined with his apparent immortality, makes me think that maybe he’s some sort of “servitor” of Jacob and the Island, like Ariel in the _Tempest._ Maybe that’s why Widmore didn’t question his messages from Jacob. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/127 "2009-04-10T21:50:56Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Confused about “Lost”. How could _that_ happen. It’s complicated. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/128 "2009-04-10T22:04:20Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > And we never got to see Claire die. Announcing that she randomly died in some minor way two seasons ago when we see her in season 6 would feel like a real cop-out. If there’s one thing I’ve learned from LOST, it’s that main characters aren’t dead until you see them die melodramatically. It’s why I never thought Jin was dead and is one of the few times I’ve ever predicted anything in LOST correctly. Last night’s episode was fannnnnnnnnntastic, by the way. And, for what it’s worth, I’m in the “Locke’s not dead” camp—the island cured his legs, saved him when Ben shot him—it’s just not letting Locke die, for whatever reason. As an aside: does anyone remember back in season 1 or 2 when Locke was suddenly paralyzed again? Just for an episode? What was _that_ about? ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/129 "2009-04-10T22:23:15Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#): > > If there’s one thing I’ve learned from LOST, it’s that main characters aren’t dead until you see them die melodramatically… :dubious: Sometimes not even then. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/130 "2009-04-10T22:24:35Z")
> [@emmaliminal](#): > > :dubious: Sometimes not even then. Touche, Doper, touche. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/131 "2009-04-10T23:08:56Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#): > > If there’s one thing I’ve learned from LOST, it’s that main characters aren’t dead until you see them die melodramatically. It’s why I never thought Jin was dead and is one of the few times I’ve ever predicted anything in LOST correctly. > > Last night’s episode was fannnnnnnnnntastic, by the way. And, for what it’s worth, I’m in the “Locke’s not dead” camp—the island cured his legs, saved him when Ben shot him—it’s just not letting Locke die, for whatever reason. As an aside: does anyone remember back in season 1 or 2 when Locke was suddenly paralyzed again? Just for an episode? What was _that_ about? I believe Locke was doubting the Island at the time. Wasn’t that when Boone died? ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/132 "2009-04-10T23:15:48Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > I believe Locke was doubting the Island at the time. Wasn’t that when Boone died? That feels right to me. IIRC he was arm-dragging himself through that field with the Nigerian plane. Which means what, though? That the island was reminding him “John—I know you think Boone shouldn’t have died. Need I remind you you should not be walking? Trust me.” ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/133 "2009-04-10T23:20:13Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > We all need to remember that Hurley is certifiably insane. It’ possible the Charlie isn’t an apparition at all. He might just be in Hurley’s mind. Maybe, but in that scene the writers were careful to imply that other mental patients could see Charlie, which at least puts the idea in our heads that something else was going on. > [@emmaliminal](#): > > It just occurred to me today how similar Sayid’s recent flashback with the brother and the killing-the-chicken problem is to Eko’s backstory. Now I am indeed scared that the Smoke Monster will get Sayid. Eko’s story was that he killed an old man to save his brother, became a thug and fake priest, and then even after trying to be a real priest, sort of, later hacked a bunch of guys to death. Sayid’s childhood flashback was him killing a CHICKEN. Sayid has a heck of a lot more to answer for in his torturing days and stint as an assassin motivated by bloodthirsty revenge. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/134 "2009-04-10T23:24:09Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > Sayid’s childhood flashback was him killing a CHICKEN. Sayid has a heck of a lot more to answer for in his torturing days and stint as an assassin motivated by bloodthirsty revenge. Like, say, falling for Shannon. UNFORGIVEABLE! ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/135 "2009-04-10T23:40:10Z")
> [@emmaliminal](#): > > It just occurred to me today how similar Sayid’s recent flashback with the brother and the killing-the-chicken problem is to Eko’s backstory. Now I am indeed scared that the Smoke Monster will get Sayid. I can’t see Ben getting a pass from ol’ Smokey and Sayid failing in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/136 "2009-04-11T01:04:41Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > Eko’s story was that he killed an old man to save his brother, became a thug and fake priest, and then even after trying to be a real priest, sort of, later hacked a bunch of guys to death. Sayid’s childhood flashback was him killing a CHICKEN. Sayid has a heck of a lot more to answer for in his torturing days and stint as an assassin motivated by bloodthirsty revenge. True, but it felt like the chicken-killing scene was there to mark Sayid’s essential willingness to kill on demand. I’m still really confused about what the Island wants and how it judges people; whether its apparent callousness about the lives of non-Others is actually an artifact of sneaky lying Ben, or if the Island is just a big selfish meanie. Though it occurs to me that Sayid shooting Ben was what got Ben Otherized, so assuming the Island likes having Ben on its list, maybe it’s happy with Sayid. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/137 "2009-04-11T01:53:25Z")
I always sort of figured that Sayid was going to end up with the Others this season, after getting pegged as one. His shooting of Ben may or may not screw that up, but I doubt he’s going to get recaptured by Dharma. Again, I think it might be important that Eko said, flat out, that he sought no forgiveness: he felt everything he had done was justified for him to survive. I’m not sure Sayid would necessarily be like that in the face of his confessor. Ben certainly came close insofar as he claimed that most of what he did was for the Island, but the monster only really seemed to care about Alex, which Ben felt truly guilty about. Which annoys me, because I totally don’t blame Ben at all for her death. He sincerely thought that he could save her by claiming not to care about her: he never expected that they’d just execute her straight out in the face of that. I’m still curious as to why Widmore seemed to sincerely believe that it wasn’t his fault that Alex had died though. Maybe he just meant that Ben forced him to do it by resisting him, which is a pretty lame excuse. But for that matter, since none of his goons lived to tell him what happened, why would he even know that Alex had died at all, let alone know how it happened such that he could claim no responsibility? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/138 "2009-04-11T03:16:01Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#): > > That feels right to me. IIRC he was arm-dragging himself through that field with the Nigerian plane. Which means what, though? That the island was reminding him “John—I know you think Boone shouldn’t have died. Need I remind you you should not be walking? Trust me.” The island killed Boone, so John would pound on the hatch door, preventing Desmond from killing himself. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/139 "2009-04-11T03:35:15Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > But for that matter, since none of his goons lived to tell him what happened, why would he even know that Alex had died at all, let alone know how it happened such that he could claim no responsibility? Hurley knew. So, he could have told Sun, who then told Widmore. ---
**Author:** ![wasson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/4da419/32.png) [@wasson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wasson)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412/140 "2009-04-11T03:49:05Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > But for that matter, since none of his goons lived to tell him what happened, why would he even know that Alex had died at all, let alone know how it happened such that he could claim no responsibility? Ben himself told Widmore that, when he stopped by his penthouse. Remember the exchange where he said he was going to kill Penny because his goons killed Alex? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-12-dead-is-dead/492412.md?page=8)