# Lost 5.13 "Some Like It Hoth" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 15, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202 "2009-04-15T18:32:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/81 "2009-04-18T01:53:51Z")
> [@emmaliminal](#): > > Re in the episode before this one, “Dead Is Dead”… the photo of Ben with Alex that he goes to some trouble to recover… did the Dharma Initiative have on-site photo processing? Mail order? Well, they did have the photos of the recruits that Christian showed to Sun. They probably did have onsite facilities. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/82 "2009-04-18T01:56:52Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > Well, they did have the photos of the recruits that Christian showed to Sun. They probably did have onsite facilities. Heh. You’re right. I wants me a Dharma “Photo Tech” jumpsuit! ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/83 "2009-04-18T10:44:06Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > “He fell into a ditch” > “What about the bullet hole in his head? The ditch had a gun?” > > heehee This just put me in a proper fit of giggles, irritating my boyfriend no end ho ho . ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/84 "2009-04-18T11:08:37Z")
I’m really liking the way they handle the little vignettes in the flash backs like the guy who wants to find out about his dead son from Miles. At the first visit his yard is neglected and the clothes on the line (including some of his son’s?) look as though they should have been taken in days before. The second visit you can tell the guy is feeling better, the clothes are gone and he’s raking up. Made me feel sorry for the bloke when Miles tells him the truth. Tells you something about Miles that he felt he had to go back – like some things \*are \*more important than money to him. A theory on what money means to Miles: his mother looked really ill, maybe dying when he went to visit her but perhaps she’s still alive and he needs it for medical expenses. I liked his piercings too, someone has a lot of fun styling the younger versions of people. Flashbacks can really suck (see this weeks Heroes). It’s definately one of Lost’s strengths that they try to cram in as much relevance as they can, like the dead guy for the audition being one of Widmore’s people carrying documentation relating to the fake plane. And off the subject of flashbacks altogether it seems to me that whatever accident is about to happen at the hatch (Desmond’s hatch) is going to wrap a lot of things up, probably sending our Losties forward again for a start. It’s already been mentioned in this thread that it could be something Hurley does or Miles/little Miles I’ll just throw in a suggestion of little Ben on his return from the Others. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/85 "2009-04-18T14:42:14Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I think that there’s a reason why they would take a dead body to the Orchid station. If they’re just dumping it, they could take him anywhere. Instead, they take him to the station involved with time travel… Wasn’t Horace talking to Chang about iton the phone? I think he wanted to examine it first. The whole “what body?” line, I read as “we aren’t even talking about this!” > [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > Flashbacks can really suck (see this weeks Heroes). It’s definately one of Lost’s strengths that they try to cram in as much relevance as they can, like the dead guy for the audition being one of Widmore’s people carrying documentation relating to the fake plane. Did anyone else think it was going to be [Ben’s spy](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Widmore%27s_victim)from the video that Widmore was beating up? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/86 "2009-04-18T20:06:43Z")
I have to wonder about the connection between the way bodies are handled on the island, and the ancient Egyptian treatment of the dead. For example, we find out that Miles can only ‘hear’ dead people if their bodies are intact. Cremation makes them completely dead, and not just mostly dead. I would assume that decaying to dust would do the same thing. And the Egyptians were real big on preserving the bodies of the dead… I wonder if the idea is that when you die, your memories, and all the things that make you ‘you’ still exist so long as your body exists. There’s just nothing to animate them. The machine stops working. But some people like Miles have the ability to sort of read the record. They can’t animate the dead, but they can see the snapshots. Then there are the people who seem to have the ability to project themselves - Walt, for example. Now put the two together, and you have the ‘smoke monster’. It can read the past thoughts of the dead, and use them to project new copies of those dead people - so long as their bodies are on the island. Eko’s brother, Locke, Christian Shepard, Charlie, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/87 "2009-04-18T20:13:43Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Now put the two together, and you have the ‘smoke monster’. It can read the past thoughts of the dead, and use them to project new copies of those dead people - so long as their bodies are on the island. Eko’s brother, Locke, Christian Shepard, Charlie, etc. There’s definitely something to this. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/88 "2009-04-18T21:09:13Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > …Now put the two together, and you have the ‘smoke monster’. It can read the past thoughts of the dead, and use them to project new copies of those dead people - so long as their bodies are on the island. Hmmn. _::strokes beard thoughtfully, nods slowly::_ Have there been any appearances of not-dead people? I can’t think of any offhand, but my memories of the first and second seasons are pretty spotty at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/89 "2009-04-18T21:11:06Z")
> [@emmaliminal](#): > > Hmmn. _::strokes beard thoughtfully, nods slowly::_ > > Have there been any appearances of not-dead people? I can’t think of any offhand, but my memories of the first and second seasons are pretty spotty at this point. None come to mind that were explicitly paired with a smoke monster appearance. We’ve seen a few apparitions, but it’s not clear that they’re part of the smoke-monster deal as opposed to hallucinations, astral projections, or time travel. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/90 "2009-04-18T22:30:33Z")
Walt wasn’t dead. Juliet’s therapist was, at least as far as Juliet knew, not dead, and yet appeared with whispers and vanished mysteriously. Dave never even existed, and yet he seemed to have some physical reality to him on the Island. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/91 "2009-04-18T22:36:17Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > Walt wasn’t dead. Juliet’s therapist was, at least as far as Juliet knew, not dead, and yet appeared with whispers and vanished mysteriously. Dave never even existed, and yet he seemed to have some physical reality to him on the Island. Walt is just special, so I can see him being an exception to any rule, but Juliet’s therapist Harper indeed did not seem to be dead. Hmmn. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/92 "2009-04-19T00:00:08Z")
> [@emmaliminal](#): > > Hmmn. _::strokes beard thoughtfully, nods slowly::_ > > Have there been any appearances of not-dead people? I can’t think of any offhand, but my memories of the first and second seasons are pretty spotty at this point. Waaaaaalt. Healed a gut-shot Locke. Also Kate’s magic horsie. Also possibly Locke’s daddy (I’m still not 100% convinced that was him and not a smoke-ghost) ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/93 "2009-04-19T00:07:54Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Waaaaaalt. > > Healed a gut-shot Locke. But all agree Walt is special. > [@](#): > > Also Kate’s magic horsie. Still not clear that was a magic horse, as opposed to an Others’ horse. We’ve seen at least two IRL horses on the island. > [@](#): > > Also possibly Locke’s daddy (I’m still not 100% convinced that was him and not a smoke-ghost) It’s a possibility, but smoke-monster generated zombies don’t appear to be that easy to kill. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/94 "2009-04-19T01:22:05Z")
any thoughts on why Horace appeared in ghost form (we assume) to Locke? (It was Locke, wasn’t it?) Since we’re discussing ghosts and manifestations. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/95 "2009-04-19T01:50:59Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > any thoughts on why Horace appeared in ghost form (we assume) to Locke? (It was Locke, wasn’t it?) Since we’re discussing ghosts and manifestations. Well, for one, Horace was definitely dead, so he was available for manifesting per the theory above. Second, he seems like a likely candidate for imparting the [info](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Horace#Post-death) Locke got just then about the Dharmites and their mass grave. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/96 "2009-04-19T02:06:51Z")
> [@emmaliminal](#): > > Second, he seems like a likely candidate for imparting the [info](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Horace#Post-death) Locke got just then about the Dharmites and their mass grave. Mmmmmm… [_Dharmite_](http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=139887&l=ae0c1b500b&id=551442651). ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/97 "2009-04-19T02:09:02Z")
I’m not sure if the “visions” (Bloody Boone, dead Horace) are the same thing as the “ghosts” They’re a lot more crypt and strange. As far as I can remember, only Locke has had them. It’s possible he sees them because he’s so intuned with the island. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/98 "2009-04-19T02:19:06Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Mmmmmm… [_Dharmite_](http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=139887&l=ae0c1b500b&id=551442651). Bbwahaaha! Nice. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/99 "2009-04-20T00:48:39Z")
I was just watching “The Other 48 Days” from season 2. One of the dirty others that attacks the Tailies has a US Army knife, which the dreadful Ana Lucia insists hasn’t been made in 20 years. This lends credence to the notion that the creators had SOME idea of what was going on from the start. I suppose the knife is from an army member from the 50’s. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202/100 "2009-04-20T01:34:46Z")
Except “20 years ago” from Flight 815 is 1984. If they were setting up the army '50s guys it should have been 50 years ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-13-some-like-it-hoth/493202.md?page=6)