# Lost 5:14 "The Variable" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 29, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746 "2009-04-29T18:12:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/81 "2009-04-30T18:54:38Z")
“Your mother’s an Other?” I think that everything that has happened before the time jumps started, before the island was ‘moved’, has all happened a thousand times already and it will happen a thousand more times, rather it has and will happen an infinite number of times. Present Daniel, the one that went back to the island, the one that warned child Charlotte, the one that was waving the gun around and the one that was shot by his mom; he might have thought that he was trying to change things or do things different, but since the exact same events, conversations, and thoughts always happen to him, he will forever make the same decisions. Of course he, nor anyone else ftm, could ever know if anything is going to be different each time, because, as well as he can read the past and “get” what is happening to him, the future can still never be known from a first person perspective. Same goes for the rest of the crew. However, when Eloise visits Penny and Desmond and says for the first time in a long time she doesn’t know what will happen next, it is because that is in post-move/present day time; it is off the infinitely repeating time loop that was created. No one, at least as far as we know yet, has ever looped over that period of time, so there is nothing to clue anyone into what will happen. The thing that really throws me off is with the notebook. To me, it is a ‘constant variable’. It would document every thing that has happened, but all the notes should remain there to be added upon during each subsequent cycle. It must keep getting destroyed or confiscated by the Island and its keepers at some point. Or for some reason Eloise always only keeps it for herself. I might have missed something, but I believe the book she gives Daniel is blank right? I think that is all I got for now. Great episode though, definitely worthy of being the hundredth. ETA: With the ages/time thing, was the difference in the speed of time on and off the island only during the jumps? I don’t really feel like doing the math but could that explain why the ages, specifically Daniel’s, are messed up? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/82 "2009-04-30T19:02:24Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Posted by Fenris > > This point really annoys me too. Any speculation/explanation out there? Here’s my unscientific theory on this. Pushing the button releases a small amount of the energy. So 20 years of button pushes is about 97,397 individual pushes. That’s enough to reduce the overall energy. Maybe 97,397 pushes were enough to make the release survivable. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/83 "2009-04-30T19:07:29Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > What I don’t get is…why not shield/turn off all your electronic stuff, and just hit the failsafe and release the damned energy and not spend 20+ years pushing that button. All not-pushing it did was make the sky turn purple and fry electronics in a (say) 20 mile radius. You’re assuming that all the failsafe released an electromagnetic pulse. Which it didn’t. All electronics kept working afterwards (the walkies, the computer at the flame). Really, we don’t know what exactly the failsafe did, other than make the sky turn people, make the island visible briefly, and ruin communications. It also imploded the hatch and sent the hatch door flying across the island. Obviously, it released a hell of a lot of energy. It’s possible that turning the key completely changed the electromagnetic field that surrounds the island. Also, it’s possible that Dharma wasn’t sure what exactly would happen when the key was turned. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/84 "2009-04-30T19:10:59Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Posted by Fenris > > This point really annoys me too. Any speculation/explanation out there? Well, if we keep in mind what it did to Desmond and Radsinsky, we know it’ll mess up your brain but good… -Joe ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/85 "2009-04-30T19:54:35Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > Why didn’t they keep going in the Jeep? They’re on a tight time schedule, there’s only four hours to go…and they abandon the Jeep and start walking?! Lock that differential and take that thing as far into the jungle as it will go! They specifically addressed that - Kate said that they could drive to the fence but from there is was walking. I don’t think you could really get that far into the jungle in the Jeep unless there was already a path or the trees were very wide apart and there were no steep inclines. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/86 "2009-04-30T19:58:12Z")
Speaking of the Jeep, where the hell did all the Dharma cars go? We’ve been to the barracks, but we’ve only seen one van. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/87 "2009-04-30T20:01:32Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Well, if we keep in mind what it did to Desmond and Radsinsky, we know it’ll mess up your brain but good… > > -Joe I think we’ve seen decisive proof that Radsinsky was messed up to begin with. > [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > So given that the producers have gone to such lengths, and risked such audience annoyance, to prevent characters from telling each other about the Dharma Initiative’s big secrets, should we all expect that there really ARE some big reveals there? Or is it inconsequential? I mean Daniel presumably met the DeGroots or even Hanso and should know a HECK of a lot of Dharma history besides just the Swan. So he gets killed off before anyone has a chance to shake him down (though of course, there’s that "but they were walking through the jungle for hours and could have talked then! problem) for info. > > I understand why that might be frustrating to people if they focus on it. Personally, its a suspension of disbelief I find easy to go with just because the show has been so fun. But they must be hiding SOMETHING behind all this subterfuge about Dharma. I’m pretty much convinced at this point that Dharma knows absolutely nothing - that they’re a bunch of hapless hippies traipsing around the jungle, dabbling in forces they barely comprehend. So far, I’ve seen nothing to contradict this. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/88 "2009-04-30T20:36:41Z")
So, Desmond was going to use the atom bomb to blow up the hatch. What’s the betting that the bomb will become the fail safe mechanism. ---
**Author:** ![Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f1d935/32.png) [@Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dilton_Doiley_Philosopher_King)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/89 "2009-04-30T21:26:40Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > Does (older) Eloise later rip pages out of the notebook before passing it on so that Daniel misses some crucial information? Was the notebook empty when she first gave it to him, or already filled in? Where does a physical object like a notebook even COME from if no one ever buys it from a store at any point? From the same place the compass came from. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/90 "2009-04-30T21:58:15Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > They specifically addressed that - Kate said that they could drive to the fence but from there is was walking. I don’t think you could really get that far into the jungle in the Jeep unless there was already a path or the trees were very wide apart and there were no steep inclines. Huh. Must’ve missed that. Was she wearing a sweaty white tank top while saying it? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/91 "2009-04-30T22:03:08Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Well, if we keep in mind what it did to Desmond and Radsinsky, we know it’ll mess up your brain but good… > > -Joe And Daniel either coincidentally or “Coincidentally” was working with the same stuff and gooified his own melon. Who suggested Danel’s research? We know Wilmore paid for it, but did Daniel discover it on his own or was it “hinted” by his parents? ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/92 "2009-04-30T23:06:50Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > I was going to come in and propose the same kind of relative timeline idea – but the problem is that even the relative times don’t seem to sync up. If you want to do further hand-waving, there is reason to believe that time progresses differently on the Island than the rest of the world, so that could account for relative timeline differences. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/93 "2009-04-30T23:59:23Z")
Did anyone else notice in one scene (I think the one where Widmore visited Daniel Faraday) that the current issue of Wired magazine (the issue guest-edited by JJ Abrams) was on the table? ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/94 "2009-05-01T00:05:40Z")
J.J. Abrams is guest-editing the current issue of Wired, but I don’t think that was the one shown. I think the one shown was the August 2003 issue (seen [here](http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.08/)). ---
**Author:** ![mshar253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/95 "2009-05-01T00:07:50Z")
I still don’t understand why Dan was all goofy, like when he was crying when he saw the wreckage of the fake Oceanic 815. He was normal beforehand, right? When he was graduating from Oxford, for instance, he seemed fine. Was it explained when and how his memory got messed up? I am so confused. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/96 "2009-05-01T00:57:13Z")
> [@mshar253](#): > > I still don’t understand why Dan was all goofy, like when he was crying when he saw the wreckage of the fake Oceanic 815. He was normal beforehand, right? When he was graduating from Oxford, for instance, he seemed fine. Was it explained when and how his memory got messed up? I am so confused. He said that he tested out his crazy time travel machine on himself before he tested it on his research assistant. Last time we saw her, her mind was jumping through time. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/97 "2009-05-01T01:32:06Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m pretty much convinced at this point that Dharma knows absolutely nothing - that they’re a bunch of hapless hippies traipsing around the jungle, dabbling in forces they barely comprehend. So far, I’ve seen nothing to contradict this. So far, I’m with you on that, as far as actual on screen evidence goes. But it seems like the producers are deliberately avoiding a fuller accounting of them for some reason. And I can’t think of why that would be. They KNOW that it frustrates fans: they’ve even said so. But they’re being coy about it all still. And we know that many of them are in some way connected to deeper Island stuff. Horace has actual physical blueprints and maps for the cabin in his pocket when he dies, and Jacob and the cabin seem pretty fundamental to things. Chang doesn’t die in the incident, but he somehow loses an arm, and the producers chose NOT to show him dead in purge. Why? The DeGroots and Hanso are just too rich and influential to just vanish without a trace into the background of the story without some explanation. They, and what happened to them post Incident, and then post Dharma, has got to be explained SOMEHOW at some point. And I doubt it’s all going to be incidental and without some significance to events. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/98 "2009-05-01T01:55:49Z")
Someone suggested this elsewhere: isn’t it now pretty clear that the “statue” faction are Eloise goons? Evidence: 1. Bram’s kidnapping of Miles implies that he does not work for Widmore. 2. Widmore didn’t seem to know that Ben and the others were going back to the Island (which seems odd: wasn’t he tailing them all?) given that Ben’s pre-beating gloating seemed to surprise him so maybe he didn’t have time to get his people on the Aijira plane 3. Eloise is the only other major player who knows about the Island, the statue, and knows when the plane is leaving Also, it’s really interesting to try and figure out what Ben and Eloise know about each other and their motives. They have at least some sort of working relationship, but it doesn’t seem like they trust each other. Does Ben know about the notebook or anything related to it? He probably knows that Daniel is her son from his research on the freight-ies, no? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/99 "2009-05-01T02:34:23Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > Someone suggested this elsewhere: isn’t it now pretty clear that the “statue” faction are Eloise goons? > > Evidence: > > 1. Bram’s kidnapping of Miles implies that he does not work for Widmore. > 2. Widmore didn’t seem to know that Ben and the others were going back to the Island (which seems odd: wasn’t he tailing them all?) given that Ben’s pre-beating gloating seemed to surprise him so maybe he didn’t have time to get his people on the Aijira plane > 3. Eloise is the only other major player who knows about the Island, the statue, and knows when the plane is leaving > > Also, it’s really interesting to try and figure out what Ben and Eloise know about each other and their motives. They have at least some sort of working relationship, but it doesn’t seem like they trust each other. Does Ben know about the notebook or anything related to it? He probably knows that Daniel is her son from his research on the freight-ies, no? I’m still going with them being DHARMA coming back to the island. Eloise seems like she’s a neutral party. And I don’t think Ben knew Dan was her son. He looked pretty shocked when Desmond said he was here to see Faraday’s mother. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/100 "2009-05-01T02:50:43Z")
How would Dharma know when the Aijira plane was leaving though? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746.md?page=6)