# Lost 5:14 "The Variable" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 29, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746 "2009-04-29T18:12:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/101 "2009-05-01T03:10:52Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > How would Dharma know when the Aijira plane was leaving though? Travelocity? ---
**Author:** ![mshar253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/102 "2009-05-01T04:18:02Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > How would Dharma know when the Aijira plane was leaving though? Wasn’t the place (in LA, I think) where Eloise was, with the pendulum thing, originally built by Dharma? Maybe they figured out all the equations as to where the island would be. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/103 "2009-05-01T04:58:44Z")
But that only raises the question as to why, if they’re actually still around, they aren’t at and using that station. Surely they have enough money and manpower to take out one old woman. ---
**Author:** ![Meltdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Meltdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meltdown)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/104 "2009-05-01T13:47:13Z")
What if Eloise is working for/with Dharma? Admittedly, there is no evidence for this. But consider: she and Widmore obviously had some sort of falling out. It doesn’t appear that she was working with Ben. At some point she left Richard and the other Others (we don’t know why or when). What if, sometime after the purge, she got together with whatever was left of Dharma, and realized they had a common goal – to stop both Widmore AND Ben from letting their personal feud take down the island? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/105 "2009-05-01T13:50:15Z")
Well, clearly the others have a lot of resources outside the island (Mitelos and all that). Even though Eloise doesn’t seem to be affiliated with them, they could be protecting it. And we don’t really know if Dharma has that many resources anymore. According to the online game, it started to shut down and lose money before the purge. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/106 "2009-05-01T16:09:16Z")
Wasn’t Mitelos Ben and Richard Alpert’s people? I think the fact that Hanso sold the Black Rock journal indicated that he and Dharma were washing their hands of the Island. I also think that Ilana and the “Shadow of the Statue” gang (Shadowfolk?) are completely new players. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/107 "2009-05-01T18:25:51Z")
OK - so it’s confirmed that Widmore is Daniel’s father - I know that’s been speculated before. Then who is Penny’s mother? Think Eloise and Widmore did a Parent Trap thing and divvied up the kids? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/108 "2009-05-01T19:39:01Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > _snip_ > > Then who is Penny’s mother? Think Eloise and Widmore did a Parent Trap thing and divvied up the kids? That is my thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Dazzling\_White\_Diamonds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@Dazzling\_White\_Diamonds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dazzling_White_Diamonds)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/109 "2009-05-01T19:55:41Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > OK - so it’s confirmed that Widmore is Daniel’s father - I know that’s been speculated before. > > Then who is Penny’s mother? Think Eloise and Widmore did a Parent Trap thing and divvied up the kids? When Widmore was exiled, didn’t Ben say something along the lines that he (Widmore) had a child off-island? I took that to mean he had a child with a woman who was not an Other. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/110 "2009-05-01T20:19:32Z")
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a clearer instance of explaining something to the audience (short of simply addressing the camera and saying, “For you folks at home . . .”), than when Faraday told Jack that there was no guarantee they wouldn’t get killed, because “This is our present.” Faraday waving that gun around in the Others’ camp made absolutely no sense. This show is occasionally awesome; so frequently crappy. But there are larger issues: does everybody who comes to work for Dharma on the Island get his own house? Jack has a house to himself, and he’s a janitor. Sweet! ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/111 "2009-05-01T20:36:07Z")
I do have to admit: Daniel waving the gun was just inexcusably silly. The producers I suppose did their best by trying to set Daniel up as totally ignorant about guns, but really, that was just pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/112 "2009-05-01T20:39:40Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > But there are larger issues: does everybody who comes to work for Dharma on the Island get his own house? Jack has a house to himself, and he’s a janitor. Sweet! Ha! Good question. Where DO all the Dharma people live? Dharmaville (according to Lostpedia) consists of 18 houses. There’s more than 18 people living in Dharmatown right? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/113 "2009-05-01T20:41:40Z")
I dunno - we already knew that Danial was emotionally unstable and had poor people skills. He was panicking, he was suffering from temporal dislocation, he may have been on the verge of a nervous breakdown - waving the gun around makes a weird sort of sense. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/114 "2009-05-01T21:24:50Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Ha! Good question. Where DO all the Dharma people live? Dharmaville (according to Lostpedia) consists of 18 houses. There’s more than 18 people living in Dharmatown right? Some of them seem to live at the stations–but maybe that’s later. And either way, it doesn’t account for the disparity between the number of individuals and the number of housing units. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/115 "2009-05-02T03:24:05Z")
The truly big problem is that both Dharma and the Others clearly had way more people living in the barracks than the few lostees who end up there in Season 4 with Locke… and yet those later lostees are forced to bunk up with each other. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/116 "2009-05-02T12:50:25Z")
Thought’s while watching- apropos to nothing The theme of parent child relationship (generally screwed up) keeps repeating: Jack and his dad Kate and her (step?)dad Ben and his dad Penny and her dad Hurley and his dad (recently reconciled) Miles and his dad Dan and his mom and dad Kate has to give up “her” child Claire loses her child Eloise kills her child Sawyer and his daughter More? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/117 "2009-05-02T13:47:24Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > Does (older) Eloise later rip pages out of the notebook before passing it on so that Daniel misses some crucial information? Was the notebook empty when she first gave it to him, or already filled in? Where does a physical object like a notebook even COME from if no one ever buys it from a store at any point? Eloise did buy it from the store. It was a new notebook that she gave Daniel as a graduation gift. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/118 "2009-05-02T14:07:00Z")
It did look new. I wonder though, if maybe she wrote a little something in there before she gave it to him. ---
**Author:** ![PerditaX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@PerditaX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PerditaX)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/119 "2009-05-02T14:07:16Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan I think the fact that Hanso sold the Black Rock journal indicated that he and Dharma were washing their hands of the Island.[/QUOTE] It suddenly occurred to me to wonder whether the Black Rock Journal is, in fact, Daniel’s journal. That would be a really good explanation for why Widmore bought it! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746/120 "2009-05-02T14:59:11Z")
> [@PerditaX](#): > > It suddenly occurred to me to wonder whether the Black Rock Journal is, in fact, Daniel’s journal. That would be a really good explanation for why Widmore bought it! The auction house sold the journal as the log of the captain of the Black Rock. I doubt it would sell a forgery - even if it did, somehow, travel back 200 years in time, Daniel’s entries would automatically label it as modern. I think there’s room in the Lostverse for more than one journal. The reason Widmore wanted it , IMHO, was that he was looking for a way back to the Island. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-14-the-variable/494746.md?page=7)