# Lost 5.16/5.17 "The Incident" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317 "2009-05-13T18:16:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/181 "2009-05-14T19:15:11Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > No, Juliet had a sister named Rachel. She was, like Kate, a brunette, but the actresses portraying the adult characters are definitely different. Maybe the child actors are less distinguishable. The actress playing Rachel as an adult was the actress that played Calamity Jane on Deadwood. When I saw Silas from Deadwood and Paul Bennett from Dexter sitting on the beach, I halfway expected Omar from the Wire and Titus Pullo from Rome come strolling up so my head would explode. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/182 "2009-05-14T19:25:46Z")
Maybe Al Swearengen will pop in and give Jack and Kate a piece of his mind, then hurl some colorful race related insults at Sun and Jin on his way out. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/183 "2009-05-14T19:37:18Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#): > > Seem like Jacob’s the asshole in that story. That’s what I’ve never understood. Isn’t he held up as a hero of sorts? Name changed to Israel and all… It really does, I’ve been having a good time catching up on this story with help from the[Holy Bibble](http://holybibble.net/latest.php?id=167)(use the old-archives if you want to skip ahead). [Here](http://holybibble.net/latest.php?id=184)is maybe one of the more relevant strips. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/184 "2009-05-14T19:40:27Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > I feel like I’m in a time warp. 😉 Sorry. It’s been a long thread. (Although for a real time warp, look at some of the threads from the first season episodes. They got up to 100-200 posts even before the episode ended.) ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/185 "2009-05-14T19:42:18Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > If the ship seen in the opening scene was the Black Rock, then the statue was intact in the nineteenth century. But when we see it, we see only the foot. So what happened in the past 150 years or so to cause everything else to disappear? (I’d expect to at least see the ruins of the rest of it.) > > Perhaps it disappeared during The Incident? Ben said it had been like that since he arrived, and he was on the island before the incident. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/186 "2009-05-14T19:43:14Z")
The statue was already destroyed in 1974. Remember that Sawyer in the gang saw the statue from the Orchid, but then it disappeared when they made the final jump to 1974. They also never saw it when they were at the well pre-jump. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/187 "2009-05-14T19:43:38Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Ben said it had been like that since he arrived, and he was on the island before the incident. Perhaps he meant that it has always been like that since he’d seen it. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/188 "2009-05-14T20:02:53Z")
I had one idea while watching, but I don’t think it will mean anything. When Sayid decides to hide in plain sight, he puts on Horace’s Dharma suit. There was all that stuff a while back about John finding Horace in the mass grave, so I was trying to come up with a way that the body he finds there could actually be Sayid wearing Horace’s clothes. I don’t see how that would work, though. About Juliet’s flashback, I thought that part of the reason for including it was specifically to _not_ have Jacob there, while he was in all the other ones. There seems to be some significance to him touching people. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/189 "2009-05-14T20:21:14Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > If there’s a nuclear device involved, I predict the ending of tonight’s finale will show us a huge struggle between the good guys and the bad, and the thing will be just about to be set off - or just activated (attached countdown clock with big numbers, 10…9…8…optional) - or we will get a shot of the island with a huge mushroom cloud rising above it. We’ll have to hang from a cliff for eight long months, I hope my fingers can hold on that long. Well you managed to get closer to being correct than I would have. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/190 "2009-05-14T20:28:57Z")
Geez Louise. Just because the actress who plays Juliet landed a role in another series doesn’t mean she can’t come back to “Lost”, does it? Pretty please? Special appearances at least? ---
**Author:** ![poker\_in\_the\_rear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dc4da7/32.png) [@poker\_in\_the\_rear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/poker_in_the_rear)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/191 "2009-05-14T20:30:29Z")
I’m still wondering how the Black Rock ended up in the middle of the island. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/192 "2009-05-14T20:41:26Z")
> [@poker\_in\_the\_rear](#): > > I’m still wondering how the Black Rock ended up in the middle of the island. This is one item I actually have a good guess about, namely, that somebody pushed the donkey wheel back in the 1800s: island moves and, when moving, reappears directly where the Black Rock’s sailing. ---
**Author:** ![mshar253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/193 "2009-05-14T20:45:30Z")
Jack was in charge of Locke’s body, right? He gave Locke’s corpse Christian’s shoes, he was the one who got the coffin on the plane … but Ilana’s people had their own box of Locke. There’s a lot of speculation that the smoke monster is the fake Locke, but wouldn’t the smoke monster have had to pretend to be dead off the island? Can we be absolutely sure that the real Locke isn’t the living one, and the fake one is the one that was in the box? (I don’t think I phrased that well at all, but I hope you catch my drift.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/194 "2009-05-14T20:47:48Z")
I wonder if in some relativistic sense, Juliet set off the nuke at the “exact same” time that Ben stabbed Jacob. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/195 "2009-05-14T20:49:47Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > Every time I see the actor who played Jacob I kinda remember him but can never place him. Black Shirt (Esau sounds good to me) looked familiar too…can anybody tell me where I’m remember him from… 🙂 I think he played the mayor in **Tombstone** (I just rewatched Tombstone the other night for the first time in forever, and was shocked.) ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/196 "2009-05-14T20:58:59Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > I had one idea while watching, but I don’t think it will mean anything. When Sayid decides to hide in plain sight, he puts on Horace’s Dharma suit. There was all that stuff a while back about John finding Horace in the mass grave, so I was trying to come up with a way that the body he finds there could actually be Sayid wearing Horace’s clothes. I don’t see how that would work, though. Well, except we know for a fact that Horace died in the purge, so his body would be in the mass grave. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/197 "2009-05-14T21:02:56Z")
> [@Johnny\_Q](#): > > I wonder if in some relativistic sense, Juliet set off the nuke at the “exact same” time that Ben stabbed Jacob. I was wondering that, too. Jack threw the nuke down the hole in 1977, but the island wouldn’t let it explode … until Jacob was dead in 2007. Then half dead Juliette taps is with a little rock and KA-BOOM! “Locke box” Tee hee hee ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/198 "2009-05-14T21:07:57Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > I had one idea while watching, but I don’t think it will mean anything. When Sayid decides to hide in plain sight, he puts on Horace’s Dharma suit. There was all that stuff a while back about John finding Horace in the mass grave, so I was trying to come up with a way that the body he finds there could actually be Sayid wearing Horace’s clothes. I don’t see how that would work, though. We actually see Horace’s dead body in Man Behind the Curtain. He was sitting on a bench during the purge, when Ben comes over and closes his eyes. > [@mshar253](#): > > Jack was in charge of Locke’s body, right? He gave Locke’s corpse Christian’s shoes, he was the one who got the coffin on the plane … but Ilana’s people had their own box of Locke. There’s a lot of speculation that the smoke monster is the fake Locke, but wouldn’t the smoke monster have had to pretend to be dead off the island? Can we be absolutely sure that the real Locke isn’t the living one, and the fake one is the one that was in the box? > > (I don’t think I phrased that well at all, but I hope you catch my drift.) Fake Locke pretty much admits he is “Esau” when he says he finally found a loophole. A few other thoughts after watching a second time: 1. Any storyline which includes Kate instantly sucks. I was digging Dharma times until Kate started playing a major role. The whole 1977 timeline in the finale was donkey balls. I would rather they bring back Ana Lucia and Shannon than watch a Kate scene. Kate is that bad. 2. Richard mentions he has visited Locke THREE times. I only recall two. One when he was born and two when he tested him. Did I miss a third or are we to expect another? 3. I certainly think Christian was working with Esau. Jacob had not been in the Cabin in a long time. 4. Is Dharma affilated with Jacob or Esau or just a third party? ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/199 "2009-05-14T21:08:58Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > I think he played the mayor in **Tombstone** (I just rewatched Tombstone the other night for the first time in forever, and was shocked.) Who are you talking about? I adore **Tombstone** and recall none other than John Locke (not Silas from Deadwood) being the Mayor. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/200 "2009-05-14T21:12:20Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > 1. Richard mentions he has visited Locke THREE times. I only recall two. One when he was born and two when he tested him. Did I miss a third or are we to expect another? When Locke was an adolescent, Richard tried to recruit him for some science camp, but was turned down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317.md?page=11)