# Lost 5.16/5.17 "The Incident" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317 "2009-05-13T18:16:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/201 "2009-05-14T21:13:44Z")
^ That’s what I recall as well. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/202 "2009-05-14T21:19:21Z")
> [@mshar253](#): > > Jack was in charge of Locke’s body, right? He gave Locke’s corpse Christian’s shoes, he was the one who got the coffin on the plane … but Ilana’s people had their own box of Locke. There’s a lot of speculation that the smoke monster is the fake Locke, but wouldn’t the smoke monster have had to pretend to be dead off the island? Can we be absolutely sure that the real Locke isn’t the living one, and the fake one is the one that was in the box? > > (I don’t think I phrased that well at all, but I hope you catch my drift.) Note that everyone Esau/Smoke Monster have pretended to be is someone who was dead but whose corpse was on the island (Locke, Christian, Ecko’s brother, anyone else?). I very much doubt that the ability works off the island. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/203 "2009-05-14T21:40:24Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Note that everyone Esau/Smoke Monster have pretended to be is someone who was dead but whose corpse was on the island (Locke, Christian, Ecko’s brother, anyone else?). I very much doubt that the ability works off the island. I think we need to assume that there’s fundamental difference between Losties seeing those dead people and Hurley seeing Charlie, Ana Lucia and Libby. Not sure what it is, but I don’t think Smokie or whatever is responsible for Hurley’s visions. Though, the discussion between Jacob and Hurley in the cab certain seemed to imply that there was more to Hurley’s visions than just being a little nutty. Maybe his visions are created by some good force (Jacob) and the others by some evil (Esau). ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/204 "2009-05-14T21:41:23Z")
Was I the only one that saw the opening shot of Jacob spinning thread and creating his tapestry that thought, “Uh oh… Trouble is looming.” ---
**Author:** ![mshar253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/205 "2009-05-14T22:47:14Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Note that everyone Esau/Smoke Monster have pretended to be is someone who was dead but whose corpse was on the island (Locke, Christian, Ecko’s brother, anyone else?). I very much doubt that the ability works off the island. That’s my point! If the smoke monster can only appear to be someone whose body is on the island, how did Jack have Locke’s corpse in the coffin AND Ilana have Locke’s corpse in the box? Or was there only one body, off-island, and (for whatever reason), Ilana decided to take Locke’s corpse **out of the coffin** and put it into the metallic box? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/206 "2009-05-14T22:50:47Z")
I’m not quite sure about that. Perhaps the coffin was in the metal box? Perhaps the metal box was how it was being transported by the airline? But either way, I think we are to understand that there was only one corpse. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/207 "2009-05-14T23:07:16Z")
Was it even Ilana’s group’s box in the first place? I figured they might have got it from the Dharma station and just moved Locke’s body into it. Better to have him in a lock-box (sorry) then in an open coffin that he could climb out of should he wake up hungry for brains. ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/51bf81/32.png) [@Big\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Blue)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/208 "2009-05-14T23:12:57Z")
I recall the box being marked “Ajira Airways”, wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/209 "2009-05-14T23:25:36Z")
More on Operation “Earth Shattering Kaboom”: Whatever happened with the nuke probably wasn’t what Faraday had in mind. IIRC, the plan was to set it off just before or at the height of the Island Energy release and cancel it out. Things had already gone Defcon Penguin and subsided by the time the nuke was finally triggered, so while the residual energy may have altered the blast somewhat, what happened wasn’t what was supposed to have happened. Put me down for having the nuke setting off the Incident. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/210 "2009-05-14T23:32:32Z")
Did I miss something… do we _know_ that the smoke monster has is taking its form in other people’s bodies, or is this suspected? If it is the former, what scene did I miss? ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/211 "2009-05-14T23:32:55Z")
> [@Big\_Blue](#): > > I recall the box being marked “Ajira Airways”, wasn’t it? It was. It was also sort of hard to see the lettering as the bamboo they were using to carry it crossed directly over it. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/212 "2009-05-14T23:46:12Z")
So are we to assume the “favor” Ilana did for Jacob was getting Sayid on the plane? ---
**Author:** ![Alias](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@Alias](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alias)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/213 "2009-05-15T00:10:55Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#): > > ^ That’s what I recall as well. He visited Locke when he was born, again with the items to test him at his house, and then again when he was a teenager. ---
**Author:** ![mshar253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/214 "2009-05-15T00:18:31Z")
I’m watching it again – did anyone notice that in Kate’s flashback, her friend was holding the toy airplane? That was a nice touch. Actually, I see that the folks at Lostpedia were all over it already. Shucks. ---
**Author:** ![Offkenter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f08c70/32.png) [@Offkenter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Offkenter)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/215 "2009-05-15T00:39:45Z")
> [@HelloNinja](#): > > Was I the only one that saw the opening shot of Jacob spinning thread and creating his tapestry that thought, “Uh oh… Trouble is looming.” :D. Cute ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Credible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a8b319/32.png) [@Justin\_Credible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Credible)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/216 "2009-05-15T00:58:29Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > 1. Richard mentions he has visited Locke THREE times. I only recall two. One when he was born and two when he tested him. Did I miss a third or are we to expect another? I thought he said that he’d been off-island three times, two to visit John. I could be wrong though. If that is what he said, I hope we get to see his third trip in a flashback next season. I’m really pissed about Juliet. She’s one of my favorite characters. I’m actually pretty disappointed with the whole episode. I kept waiting for something to be resolved, but I felt like nothing from the season was. It’s going to be very hard to wait for the final season. ---
**Author:** ![mshar253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/217 "2009-05-15T01:32:24Z")
> [@Justin\_Credible](#): > > I thought he said that he’d been off-island three times, two to visit John. I could be wrong though. If that is what he said, I hope we get to see his third trip in a flashback next season That is what he said; he’s been off-island three times, but only twice to see Locke. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/218 "2009-05-15T01:45:14Z")
That’s correct. The third time he didn’t actually see Locke, he just tried to invite him to the science camp. We know it’s been more than that, because he was also off island to see Juliet and when he was recording the video of Juliet’s sister. I think he was just referring to the trips specifically about Locke. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/219 "2009-05-15T02:25:32Z")
So big points here: 1. The cabin, with the ash circle broken. That MEANT something. But we can’t really be sure what yet, because now we’re stuck with the possibility that Jacob may never have lived in the cabin: it may have been blackdude all the time. Except remember that one time we saw the eye at the window: with Hurley? That looked more like Jacob than blackdude… Was Jacob trapped in the cabin? And if so, why did Illana’s people try to bring Locke’s body to the cabin? If Jacob was living there, why would Jacob care? He recruited Illana in the first place. If blackdude was there, why would HE care about someone exposing his own ruse? They seemed to be trying to show Richard something. But we’ve never heard of Richard going anywhere near the cabin. So… wtf mate? I think we have a LOT more to learn about the Island’s history post incident to make sense of what the cabin is all about. 1. I’m not sure that the nuke really was the incident. The nuke seemed much closer to the “blowing the dam” idea, whereby the energy would be dissipated completely. But maybe some is left, and the nuke just canceled out THAT release, but didn’t solve the problem… leading to the Swan? I think Juliet is dead. She was too close to the nuke to benefit from whatever magic time energy might be released after the nuke hit it. Sorry folks. 1. I have no idea how the next season is going to play out, but I think we need to look back at the hatch blow up a little more. That seemed very similar to whatever just happened. SOMETHING blew up the “energy pocket” and yet instead of killing everyone, they all reappeared in the same timeline, just away from the hatch. I assume that the 77 group will end up fairly quickly in the “present” but we need to consider that the incident may not be the thing that does it. Likely, but not certain. 2. What the HELL is up with fake Locke? If he’s just something wearing Locke’s duplicated skin, then why is he so Locke-like, including doing things that don’t seem necessary to maintain the ruse? Why does he ask Richard questions about, say, his agelessness, if that’s not really Locke? blackdude almost certainly knows about Richard being ageless and why. Is he just messing with Richard by asking? And why is he surprised about what the monster told Ben? Wut? Wut? Wut? 3. So Ben lied in the cabin about Jacob being there. But then, why did Ben know about the cabin in the first place? Why take Locke there? And why did the cabin then take on this strange power and presence, if to Ben it was all just a big ruse he was hoping to snow John with? ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/220 "2009-05-15T02:55:55Z")
Perhaps the ash circle wasn’t about trapping things within the cabin, but, rather, preventing them from being able to get in? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317.md?page=12)