# Lost 5.16/5.17 "The Incident" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317 "2009-05-13T18:16:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/261 "2009-05-16T15:45:50Z")
Did anyone else think that maybe Jacob NOT appearing in Juliet’s past was a nod to her not making it? And did Jacob REALLY entirely ignore Ben Linus, or was he active in Ben’s past as well? They could have easily had him do something that led to the death of Ben’s mother (stranding them out in the woods, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/262 "2009-05-16T15:48:56Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Can anyone tell me what Jacob told each of the Losties when he met them in the flashbacks? > > Kate: “And you’ll never steal again Kate, right?” > > Sawyer: Gives him the pen, tells him to write the letter. > > Jack: “sometimes the machine just needs to be pushed a little” > > Sayid: held him from being killed/let the girl die. Did he say anything? > > Jin/Sun: ??? something about love. > > Locke: ??? > > Hurely: ??? > > Anyone else? I’m going off memory. I’m thinking this might grander than just advice for that flashback situation. Jin/Sun: He told them that their love was a very special thing. And then Jin said his Korean was very good. Locke: It appeared he brought him back to life, then told him everything was going to be okay. Hurley: He didn’t visit Hugo, at least in this episode. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/263 "2009-05-16T16:01:40Z")
Sure he did. He was there when Hugo got out of prison. He gave Hugo what we’ve all assumed was Charlie’s guitar case (though the contents have never been revealed). He had a longer conversation with Hurley than he had with any of the other lostees! ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/264 "2009-05-16T16:03:01Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Jin/Sun: He told them that their love was a very special thing. And then Jin said his Korean was very good. That’s right. Did he tell them to do anything? Stay together, something like that? I think I’m reading too much into it all, though. Trying to impute the forecasting type language he told Jack that he “just needed to give the machine a little push” onto all of them. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/265 "2009-05-16T16:08:51Z")
No actually that sounds pretty plausible. It still doesn’t explain why he needed to be there for Jack (maybe that candy bar really made Jack’s day or something, whatever) but that really was what he was doing in all those scenes: nudging things towards a particular course. Interestingly enough, it’s hard to see him as being “good” in most of those cases. In Kate and Sawyer’s case, he’s basically nudging them towards being dysfunctional. In Sayid’s case, he either saves Sayid’s life or arranges for Nadia to die: it’s really not clear what would have happened without him being there. Sun and Jin, he basically tries to remind them of something they’ll later forget: this is probably the only unambiguously good thing he does. Saves Locke’s life: not sure if that’s good or bad: obviously Locke is alive, but alive to be more miserable. Jack: decides that Jack is such a wussy already that he needs nothing but a candy reward for being such a whiny tool. The Hurley scene I really have to watch again. Which makes it a little odd that his whole philosophy seems to be based around choice. Those nudges all affected the lives of the people he touched in ways he knew ahead of time, but they didn’t. I’d say that pretty clearly is NOT in keeping with allowing people choice. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/266 "2009-05-16T16:36:45Z")
Hurley and Jacob: When Hurley suspects that he’s just another ghost, Jacob says he’s definitely not dead and wants to know why Hurley won’t go back to the Island. He suggests that Hurley’s visits with the dead are a blessing, being able to see people he’s lost. He tells Hugo that’s he’s not crazy, tells him about the Aijira plane, TOUCHES HIM, and then tells him that it’s his choice: he doesn’t have to do anything he doesn’t want to. He leaves the guitar with Hurley, saying “It’s not my guitar.” Oh, and when Hurley asked him who he was, his answer was “I’m just up here on the corner.” I’m guessing that’s not meant to be a cryptically deep insight into who Jacob is, but who the hell knows. 🙂 Oh, and I forgot about the touching: the candy bar was at the very least an excuse to physically touch Jack, so that’s at least something more than just the story-nudges themselves. Probably injecting the Lostees with magical nanites that allow Jacob to heal things like minor gunshot wounds and cause appendicitis at will, or something, right? 🙂 Note that not all the touches are skin to skin: he touches Hurley on the shirt, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/267 "2009-05-16T16:49:56Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > Oh, and I forgot about the touching: the candy bar was at the very least an excuse to physically touch Jack, so that’s at least something more than just the story-nudges themselves. > > Probably injecting the Lostees with magical nanites that allow Jacob to heal things like minor gunshot wounds and cause appendicitis at will, or something, right? 🙂 Note that not all the touches are skin to skin: he touches Hurley on the shirt, for instance. Was there anyone he was in a scene with that he did not touch? ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/268 "2009-05-16T16:54:28Z")
He never touched his nemesis, and he never touched Ben. Everyone he met in flashbacks though, he touched. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/269 "2009-05-16T17:23:20Z")
We don’t know if Jacob never touched Ben. I presume that’s who Richard brought him to when he was shot. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/270 "2009-05-16T17:23:40Z")
I forgot about Jacob’s meeting with Illana, but nothing really obvious happened in it aside from him asking for her help. I also forgot about her saying, re: the cabin: “someone else has been using it.” That leaves things much more likely that the adversary was involved in some way with the later usage. Or Claire? > [@levdrakon](#): > > We don’t know if Jacob never touched Ben. I presume that’s who Richard brought him to when he was shot. True, I was just noting who we’ve seen him interact with, but not yet touch. Though didn’t Richard take Ben into the Temple, not to the statue? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/271 "2009-05-16T17:50:52Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > Sure he did. He was there when Hugo got out of prison. He gave Hugo what we’ve all assumed was Charlie’s guitar case (though the contents have never been revealed). He had a longer conversation with Hurley than he had with any of the other lostees! :smack: I don’t know how I completely forgot about that scene. It was one of the more captivating. My brain must’ve logged it under something other than a Jacob visitation. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/272 "2009-05-16T19:29:38Z")
Did anyone notice that of all the people Jacob visited in the past, Hurley was the only one he visited _after_ the person had already been on the island? That means that if the theory that whoever has touched Jacob can’t kill him is correct, then assuming Jacob hadn’t paid a previous visit to Hurley we didn’t see, Hurley could have killed him during his first stint on the island. Here’s something I’ve been thinking about ever since they started talking about an “incident” at the Swan station this season. In the [orientation film](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Swan_Orientation_film) we saw in season 2, Dr. “Marvin Candle” said: > [@](#): > > The station 3 was originally constructed as a laboratory, where scientists could work to understand the unique electromagnetic fluctuations emanating from this sector of the island. Not long after the experiments began, however, there was… an ‘incident’… and since that time, the following protocol has been observed: So Chang was saying that the Swan station had already been built, and was in operation as a research station, when the incident occurred. Probably the writers didn’t have things planned out to that level of detail back in season 2, and when they wrote season 5 decided that for whatever reason it served the story better to have the incident occur while the Swan was under construction. I know, I know, we should be used to these little inconsistencies by now, but they still bug me. Also, shouldn’t Richard and Ben have reacted more strongly against Locke’s suggestion that Jacob be killed? We don’t know exactly how much they know or don’t know about Jacob, but they clearly revere him as almost a god. Even though they’ve accepted Locke as their leader, shouldn’t we have expected something along the lines of “WHAT?! Jacob can’t be killed!” or “Are you out of your mind?! How could you dare THINK of such a thing?” rather than mild surprise and a quietly passed comment that “I’m beginning to think this John Locke might be trouble?” ---
**Author:** ![wasson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/4da419/32.png) [@wasson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wasson)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/273 "2009-05-16T19:42:51Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > Did anyone notice that of all the people Jacob visited in the past, Hurley was the only one he visited _after_ the person had already been on the island? Sayid’s visit was after the island, too. ---
**Author:** ![wasson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/4da419/32.png) [@wasson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wasson)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/274 "2009-05-16T19:46:19Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > Also, shouldn’t Richard and Ben have reacted more strongly against Locke’s suggestion that Jacob be killed? Richard didn’t know what they were up to. Richard said his “Locke’s gonna be trouble” line after Locke said he was going to take the whole camp to see Jacob. Ben didn’t put up a fight because Alex told him to follow every word that Locke said without question. He did look very surprised when Locke told him they were going to kill Jacob. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/275 "2009-05-16T19:53:18Z")
Ah. Now I remember. Another “visoned” person that hasn’t been mentioned is Claire, but I can’t remember who saw her and when after she vanished. I also can’t remember how she vanished. Good thing we’re re-watching. And if Locke’s dad had died, it could explain how “he” got on the island if Esau can just throw hallucinations of the dead at people who have been to the island at whim. And I’m torn between the black horse that Kate saw being a Esau vision, and it being the same (dead) horse from her past…vs…the Others were riding horses on the island. Whitmore ran Jack down with one when Daniel was shot, so there could be a herd of feral horses on the island. I think they would have seen more of them though, if that were the case. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/276 "2009-05-16T20:40:52Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > So…Locke was pretty specifically not touched as a kid by Jacob. Has he been working for the Anti-Jacob all along? Locke was touched as an adult and furthermore seems to have been brought back to life by Jacob after his fall. This combined with his goading Ben makes me think that Jacob being killed is part of his plan. > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Here’s a summary of [Everything That Rises Must Converge](http://litsum.com/everything-that-rises-must-converge/). My brother noted that it went from #700 to #105 on Amazon’s top seller list overnight 🙂 The Lost version of the Oprah effect! > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So what happened in the past 150 years or so to cause everything else to disappear? (I’d expect to at least see the ruins of the rest of it.) I’m guessing… dynamite! > [@mshar253](#): > > Jack was in charge of Locke’s body, right? He gave Locke’s corpse Christian’s shoes Speaking of which, is Not-Locke also wearing Locke’s funeral clothes and Christian’s shoes? What about his dead body on the beach? > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Are the tunnels supposed to somehow contain the radiation? I don’t think radiation leaks generally work that way. Radiation is usually either light or small particles of matter, either of which would generally be absorbed by many meters of rock. There’s two kinds of leaks, one is a leak of radioactive _material_ - in the bomb’s case, a small bit of crud was coming out of a hole, but i don’t think there was much threat of it escaping past the surface of the container of the bomb - the other is a leak of radiation itself, but in this case it’s more like a leak of light into a camera, it’s a beam that stops as soon as it hits something rather than something that floats around contaminating things. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/277 "2009-05-16T21:51:27Z")
One thing that keeps coming up that is driving me nuts… Locke’s father got to the island because The Others brought him there! Gaaah! They kidnapped him and brought him there so that Ben could show everyone that he was a total wuss and wasn’t fit to leave. No smoke monster. No "magic box’. Just a Ford Taurus, a burlap sack, and a submarine! That is all. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/278 "2009-05-16T21:58:30Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > One thing that keeps coming up that is driving me nuts… > > Locke’s father got to the island because The Others brought him there! Gaaah! > > They kidnapped him and brought him there so that Ben could show everyone that he was a total wuss and wasn’t fit to leave. No smoke monster. No "magic box’. Just a Ford Taurus, a burlap sack, and a submarine! > > That is all. > > -Joe You’re frustrated that people can’t seem to keep simple details straight with this show? And wasn’t the sub already blown up by then? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/279 "2009-05-17T00:57:11Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > You’re frustrated that people can’t seem to keep simple details straight with this show? And wasn’t the sub already blown up by then? No, Locke blew up the sub, and immediately after they took him to see his dad. Ben has repeatedly told Locke that the magic box was just a metaphor for how amazing the island was. ---
**Author:** ![mshar253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/280 "2009-05-17T01:15:51Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > One thing that keeps coming up that is driving me nuts… > > Locke’s father got to the island because The Others brought him there! Gaaah! I’m not sure if this was directed at me because I mentioned it earlier in the thread. If it was, I apologize; I should have read the Lostpedia entry on Anthony Cooper, and I would have known that it was said in a podcast that the others had kidnapped him and brought him to the island. There are still questions about this incident though, especially **why** the others felt it was necessary to do it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317.md?page=15)