# Lost 5.16/5.17 "The Incident" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317 "2009-05-13T18:16:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/281 "2009-05-17T01:56:46Z")
> [@phungi](#): > > Did I miss something… do we _know_ that the smoke monster has is taking its form in other people’s bodies, or is this suspected? If it is the former, what scene did I miss? We don’t know anything at all for sure about the smoke monster. It has only been suspected that it has something to do with the mysterious appearances of Christian, Claire, et. al. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/282 "2009-05-17T03:50:53Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > So Chang was saying that the Swan station had already been built, and was in operation as a research station, when the incident occurred. Probably the writers didn’t have things planned out to that level of detail back in season 2, and when they wrote season 5 decided that for whatever reason it served the story better to have the incident occur while the Swan was under construction. I know, I know, we should be used to these little inconsistencies by now, but they still bug me. Very good point! Either the writers screwed up, or they’ve changed at least some minor things in the past (though we do know that even under whatever happened, happened, little things can change as long as all the basics stay the same, so maybe they can just explain their way out of it that way). > [@](#): > > Also, shouldn’t Richard and Ben have reacted more strongly against Locke’s suggestion that Jacob be killed? Richard never found this out. John even asked Ben why he hadn’t told Richard. Ben couldn’t disobey John because of Smokey’s orders. And eventually, John/fake John convinced Ben that Jacob deserved to die for everything he’d put Ben through, all without even giving Ben the time of day. > [@](#): > > How could you dare THINK of such a thing?" rather than mild surprise and a quietly passed comment that “I’m beginning to think this John Locke might be trouble?” Again, Richard didn’t know about the killing plan when he said this: he was just reacting to John taking all the Others to the statue. Which reminds me: didn’t Richard say that some Others were still at the Temple, and they would go get them first before confronting Jacob? What happened to that? ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/283 "2009-05-17T04:52:22Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > Richard never found this out. John even asked Ben why he hadn’t told Richard. Ben couldn’t disobey John because of Smokey’s orders. Yeah, after reading wasson’s post I checked the transcript and saw that this was true. I don’t know why I thought Richard knew, but I suspect it was because I saw one of those previews/promos where they showed a clip of Locke stating his intention to kill Jacob and a clip of Richard saying “He’s going to be trouble” right next to each other. I hate it when those promos use misleading editing and it distorts your understanding of the plot. But still, even though he couldn’t disobey Locke, Ben still could have had a more pronounced “you’re going to do WHAT?” reaction. But I guess we can chalk that up to the show’s general tendency to be “mysterious.” > [@](#): > > Which reminds me: didn’t Richard say that some Others were still at the Temple, and they would go get them first before confronting Jacob? What happened to that? Here’s a transcript for that [episode](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Follow_the_Leader_transcript): > [@](#): > > RICHARD: Well, there’s another group at the Temple, but– > > LOCKE: Well, if you don’t mind, I would like to talk to everyone here now. > > RICHARD: Of course. Be my guest. > > LOCKE: Hello, everyone. My name is John Locke. I’ve been told that… Blah blah blah, Locke gives a little speech and they head out down the beach. The Temple group isn’t mentioned again. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/284 "2009-05-17T04:55:48Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > Which reminds me: didn’t Richard say that some Others were still at the Temple, and they would go get them first before confronting Jacob? What happened to that? NotLocke asked if all the people were there, and Richard said there was a group at the temple. They never mentioned going to get them, so I think we can assume they didn’t. I bet the Temple will play a major part next season, since we have yet to actually see it. And now I’m wondering, why did NotLocke want to bring everyone with him? Part of some bigger scheme, or just misdirection from the writers? ---
**Author:** ![EvilHamsterOnCrack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@EvilHamsterOnCrack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilHamsterOnCrack)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/285 "2009-05-17T04:58:33Z")
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11035761&postcount=152](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11035761&postcount=152) I know it’s late, but I just watched the episode, and I just wanted to point out i called it way back in episode 12 as soon as we saw the crate. Booyah! Now I can feel proud of that. Locke = Smokey. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/286 "2009-05-17T18:30:29Z")
> [@mshar253](#): > > I’m not sure if this was directed at me because I mentioned it earlier in the thread. If it was, I apologize; I should have read the Lostpedia entry on Anthony Cooper, and I would have known that it was said in a podcast that the others had kidnapped him and brought him to the island. There are still questions about this incident though, especially **why** the others felt it was necessary to do it. It wasn’t directed at you, but if you mentioned it upthread, that may have been what got me to mention it. It is continually brought up like it’s a big mystery that somehow Cooper ended up on the island. It’s not. Not even a little bit. It’s probably been explained better than pretty much anything in the show. Why is it a mystery? 1. Because Ben said that Cooper came out of a magic box. This is Ben “Lies like a rug would lie if it was really good at lying” Linus. The same Ben who admits it was a metaphor for the amazing power of the island. The same Ben who admits that lying is what he does, constantly. 2. The Smoke monster may (and probably can) appear as other people. SO WHAT? 3. How did he get to the island? The same way Others and Dharmites have been doing it for 30 years! The guy flat out said that he was run off the road in Florida and woke up in the cell! 4. OMG, but why did they bring him there? For Locke to fail to kill him. Something that is explicitly show in the episode. Locke had to kill Cooper to become “The Leader”. Locke isn’t a killer, so he gets Sawyer to do it. Explicitly in the episode. Then he brings the body back to The Others to show them that Cooper is dead. It just annoys me that in a show crawling with actual, legit mysteries we get people trying to invent other ones. OMG! How did Jack and his group get from the beach to the caves??!!?! We saw them walking away from the beach in one scene and arriving at the caves in the next scene! Was it a time warp? Better add it to the mystery list! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/287 "2009-05-17T21:58:41Z")
> [@tds1273](#): > > Except they put it right on top of a fresh water supply; I still don’t understand that logic. Speaking of the water, this is only a minor irk, but how did the journal not get wet/ruined when they swam in there? But water isn’t made radioactive by being irradiated. Either the radiation goes through the water (gamma rays), or the water catches it, which means it just got some helium, or some electrons, or some neutrons. The worst thing I can think of is making tritium, and my short net research just now indicates that’s really unlikely. It’s sort of analogous to the idea that playing with spent bullets isn’t dangerous, because they’ve already used up their dangerous energy. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/288 "2009-05-17T22:10:17Z")
Unless you mean that the actual material was getting in the water. But would said material be soluble? Because otherwise it would presumably not make it into the actual water being drunk. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/289 "2009-05-18T03:05:26Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > But still, even though he couldn’t disobey Locke, Ben still could have had a more pronounced “you’re going to do WHAT?” reaction. But I guess we can chalk that up to the show’s general tendency to be “mysterious.” I dunno, Ben seemed pretty shocked. I mean, inasmuch as someone who’s already had his dead daughter order him to obey John Locke without question on pain of destruction can be shocked by anything further. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Temple group isn’t mentioned again. Yep, good call. I guess NotLocke was mostly just in a hurry to kill Jacob. I could see how, after centuries of plotting and whatever else he complains he’s been trough, he would be a little impatient. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/290 "2009-05-18T04:00:10Z")
Apropos of nothing, John Locke was gone for 3 years, during which time the Others didn’t know where he was. Yet when he came back to the Island they immediately accepted him as leader. I wonder why they didn’t give up and pick a new leader in those 3 years? How long can the Others’ Leader go missing before he is presumed to have abdicated? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/291 "2009-05-18T04:07:36Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > Apropos of nothing, John Locke was gone for 3 years, during which time the Others didn’t know where he was. Yet when he came back to the Island they immediately accepted him as leader. I wonder why they didn’t give up and pick a new leader in those 3 years? How long can the Others’ Leader go missing before he is presumed to have abdicated? I would assume it’s until Jacob says “John isn’t the leader anymore, find someone new.” ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/292 "2009-05-18T15:50:20Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > The Temple group isn’t mentioned again. > [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > Yep, good call. I guess NotLocke was mostly just in a hurry to kill Jacob. I could see how, after centuries of plotting and whatever else he complains he’s been trough, he would be a little impatient. I’m wondering what’s up with the Temple group. There’s probably a plot twist there somewhere. That’s kind of a weird throwaway line to not mean something. Why are they there? Presumably Cindy the flight attendant, Harper, and the kids are there. Why the split camps? ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/293 "2009-05-18T18:08:27Z")
Now that some time has pased I’m more and more irked that “Lost” killed off Juliet. She has been fascinating since she’s been on the show. The pairing with Sawyer was inspired. Most viewers are so over Kate. Oh well, I’m just gonna go crazy wondering how the writers are gonna tie everything up. The latest Entertainment Weekly article implies the last season will do away with the time travel and focus on characters. Not sure if that computes. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/294 "2009-05-18T19:12:28Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > I’m wondering what’s up with the Temple group. There’s probably a plot twist there somewhere. That’s kind of a weird throwaway line to not mean something. Why are they there? > > Presumably Cindy the flight attendant, Harper, and the kids are there. Why the split camps? I’m sure the temple can do _something._ What? I have no idea, but we know that smokey “lives” under the temple. I’m expecting it to be a major plot point next season. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/295 "2009-05-18T19:22:59Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I’m sure the temple can do _something._ What? I have no idea, but we know that smokey “lives” under the temple. I’m expecting it to be a major plot point next season. That’s where Richard took Ben for healing, for one thing. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/296 "2009-05-18T19:53:47Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > That’s where Richard took Ben for healing, for one thing. Good point. We know for a fact that people naturally heal faster on the island, so maybe the temple is the focal point of that power? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/297 "2009-05-18T20:02:58Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Good point. We know for a fact that people naturally heal faster on the island, so maybe the temple is the focal point of that power? I suspect at least that. They’ve kept the Temple itself secret from us all this time, so there must be some sort of goodies in there. We know that Richard knows what’s in there. Ben pretended not to know (this is the place they took me when I was a boy), but he’s a liar, so that’s not much help. The Locke-monster would know what’s in there. Does Jacob or the dark guy? Does Widmore? ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/298 "2009-05-18T20:11:31Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > But water isn’t made radioactive by being irradiated. Either the radiation goes through the water (gamma rays), or the water catches it, which means it just got some helium, or some electrons, or some neutrons. The worst thing I can think of is making tritium, and my short net research just now indicates that’s really unlikely. > > It’s sort of analogous to the idea that playing with spent bullets isn’t dangerous, because they’ve already used up their dangerous energy. > > Unless you mean that the actual material was getting in the water. But would said material be soluble? Because otherwise it would presumably not make it into the actual water being drunk. No, I guess that all makes sense. Still, it’s not something I’d want to drink downstream from or have stored in my basement. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/299 "2009-05-19T05:55:52Z")
Watching the ep again, I’m wondering if maybe the loophole is that only someone who was chosen to be a leader of the Others can kill Jacob. And maybe Ben getting cancer and the Others not being able to have children was caused by Esau as a way of making Ben angry at Jacob. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/300 "2009-05-19T12:55:31Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > In most of the flashback scenes Jacob seems to be doing something to help the Lostees on their way… become the screwed up people they are… all except in the case of Jack. Jack, he gives a candy bar. I thought that Jacob’s comment during the surgery may have spurred Jack’s dad to step in and humiliate him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317.md?page=16)