# Lost 5.16/5.17 "The Incident" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317 "2009-05-13T18:16:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/81 "2009-05-14T03:28:08Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > I would have liked more info about Richard. I’m betting right now that the very first scene next season will be a Richard flashback. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Composer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@The\_Composer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Composer)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/82 "2009-05-14T03:38:37Z")
I saw this as an answer to “Who lies in the shadow of the statue?” on the Lost Facebook page: Latin: “Ille qui nos omnes servabit.” “He who will save all of us.” ETA: Or, “He who will save us all.” I’m not sure what’s correct. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/83 "2009-05-14T03:42:13Z")
Man, my head is spinning. The tapestry Jacob made. Interesting, wonder if we can eek out any meaning at this point. So, Juliet set us up the bomb. What now of Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Jin, Sayid, Miles and Juliet? I couldn’t tell who made it out of ground zero. I’m thinking Miles got his dad out of there. Also, I’m thinking the mortality of the blast will be pretty small, since that was just the plutonium trigger to spark the hydrogen fusion. Not sure what the yield is, but it was several hundreds of feet below ground too. I still think that bomb, combined with the EM energy down there combined into another kind of time-traveling scenario. We’ll see… I’m guessing Richard was aboard that ship in the beginning. I have to go back and listen to what “Esau” and Jacob were discussing in the beginning, now with hindsight. I totally called Locke’s body being in the box before they dumped it. It just dawned on me. Loved the white ending logo. It’s the most frustratingly good ending since the first season. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/84 "2009-05-14T03:47:15Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I totally called Locke’s body being in the box before they dumped it. It just dawned on me. I honestly thought the whole time it was gonna be Jacob’s body. ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/85 "2009-05-14T03:54:21Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > I think that was their way of writing them out of the show. I think we’ve seen the last of them. The problem with Rose and Bernard’s ambivalence is if Jack is successful and their plane never crashes on the island, they never get a nice “retirement” because Rose had incurable cancer, remember? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/86 "2009-05-14T03:57:33Z")
Does anyone know where Ilana was when Jacob visited her in the hospital? And what language they were speaking? Not that I think it necessarily matters where exactly they were, I’m just curious and couldn’t recognize the language. ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/87 "2009-05-14T03:58:15Z")
Russian ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/88 "2009-05-14T04:08:34Z")
Some thoughts: Deciding to detonate the bomb was kind of selfish and short-sighted, because although Jack’s life might become normal, a bunch of other people would be hurt and killed as a result, namely all the Dharma Initiative people for whom such an explosion would be the end of the line. Also, people from the plane, like Rose and Locke who benefitted from the Island. Why didn’t anyone in the show care about this? Juliette, near death, saw a second chance in detonating the bomb. If future events didn’t happen the way they did, she would be alive in the future. Jacob and anti-Jacob seemed to be talking about Jacob’s attempts to find the good in people, and anti-Jacob was trying to convince Jacob that his attempts would never work. Perhaps Jacob kept luring people to the island in order to prove a point to anti-Jacob in some long-running cosmic struggle. It definitely was Sobek, read the description on Wikipedia. Sobek was closely allied with the sun-god Ra. The ankh he was holding represents his ability to undo evil and cure ills. from Wikipedia: “Sobek’s ambiguous nature led some Egyptians to believe that he was a repairer of evil that had been done, rather than a force for good in itself, for example, going to Duat to restore damage done to the dead as a result of their form of death. He was also said to call on suitable gods and goddesses required for protecting people in situation, effectively having a more distant role, nudging things along, rather than taking an active part.” ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/89 "2009-05-14T04:21:28Z")
Can someone offer up an explanation for why Sun did not flash back 30years with the rest of the time travellers? Where was young Ben during all this excitement going down in Dharmaville? Has he returned from being Otherized? Was kind of cool to see all our Losties fighting together against Horace & his crew, even if for a pretty idiotic reason. And Miles saving his father - cool. Still creeped out by seeing Dr. Jack randomly killing people. If only Jacob had just answered Ben’s question. He could have said “It’s complicated.” Sayid, Nadia, Juliet , Sawyer…heartbreaking. Now this, folks, was a _finale_. Is it January yet? ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/90 "2009-05-14T04:28:57Z")
Every time I see the actor who played Jacob I kinda remember him but can never place him. Black Shirt (Esau sounds good to me) looked familiar too…can anybody tell me where I’m remember him from… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/91 "2009-05-14T04:30:23Z")
Time to get theorizing: Anyone have any ideas over what Alana meant by Frank being a possible “candidate?” I’m thinking that they’re gonna have Jacob possess someone, similar to what anti-Jacob has been doing. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/92 "2009-05-14T04:34:13Z")
Jacob: > **[Mark Pellegrino | Actor, Producer, Soundtrack](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0671032/)** > > Known for: Mulholland Drive, Supernatural, The Big Lebowski Anti-Jacob (credited as Man #2) > **[Titus Welliver | Actor, Producer, Writer](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0920038/)** > > Known for: The Town, Argo, Transformers: Age of Extinction Edit: Also, I think Jacob’s “They’re coming” refers to the '77 Losties being blasted to the future. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/93 "2009-05-14T04:37:24Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Anti-Jacob (credited as Man #2) > [Titus Welliver - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0920038/) Ahhhh…Silas from Deadwood! Thanks, I can go to bed in peace tonight. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/94 "2009-05-14T04:43:55Z")
I was thinking “They’re coming,” meant the start of the “war” that Alana and her troupe have bandied about. I suppose it could mean that the losties will show up from the blast too? Obviously something big and cosmic is going on; a struggle between these two to try and prove some big point about humanity? Jacob and “Esau” must be some entities of good/evil or freewill/fate that have lived for ages. Are they human? Did they start out human, and were possessed by these entities? Are they from the far future, messing around in their past (our present)? Are they aliens? Cyborgs? Nano-bots? I’m running out of sci-fi cliches… ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/95 "2009-05-14T04:45:59Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Time to get theorizing: > Anyone have any ideas over what Alana meant by Frank being a possible “candidate?” I’m thinking that they’re gonna have Jacob possess someone, similar to what anti-Jacob has been doing. But did “Esau” really possess Locke? He just took his form, but left his body in the trunk. I never considered that Christian might be Esau. This is an intriguing theory. However, how come Jacob let him galavant around misleading people then? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/96 "2009-05-14T04:46:00Z")
Also, so Locke really did get murdered (for good) by Ben. That’s so tragic. Poor Locke. He was so used, all his life. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/97 "2009-05-14T04:50:52Z")
I’m totally sold that “Esau” has been entirely responsible for all the dead people apparitions. Remember when Ben fell down that hole in the temple, and was “judged” by the smoke monster? Locke said he’d go get some rope, and that’s when dead Alex appeared and told Ben he better do whatever Locke said. Then, as soon as she disappears… _POOF_ Locke reappears, with some rope, all like, “what just happened?” Uh huh. This whole time, “Esau’s” been assuming the identities of dead people so that he can manipulate them to do what he want’s them to do. Looking for that loophole? I think he’s also separate from Smokey. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/98 "2009-05-14T06:19:29Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Michael Emerson was on the radio this morning here in Detroit and he said the following, which I’ll spoilerbox just to be safe(no huge spoilers though) > > 1. When asked if we will learn about Jacob, he replied, “Oh, yes. You will get to see his world.” > > 2. When asked about Richard’s agelessness, he said, "Tonight, you will learn how Richard fits into human history. > > He also said he knows nothing past tonight’s finale. Well, at least in #2 he lied. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/99 "2009-05-14T06:28:25Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > But did “Esau” really possess Locke? He just took his form, but left his body in the trunk. > > I never considered that Christian might be Esau. This is an intriguing theory. However, how come Jacob let him galavant around misleading people then? Yeah, Possess is probably the wrong word. But whoever he “duplicates” he clearly gains all his memories, and to some extent, part of the personality. I’m curious as to who actually decided that dead Locke needed to come back to the island. Eloise? I’m thinking this whole thing is way above Ben’s head. Not sure how much Widmore knows either. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/100 "2009-05-14T06:36:36Z")
I really dug Bernard and Rose’s motivation - even if it was shoehorning them in the ep. I think lots of fans of Lost would find themselves making the same choice after living with these often infuriating people. As wisecracking and straight shooting as Hurley is, I’m surprised he never insisted that he be entirely left out of their nonsense. I’m paraphrasing, but Kate’s ‘Didn’t you hear what I said/don’t you care’ argument to them was even more off putting than usual. I don’t think I could ever find myself on Kate’s side of an argument even if she was right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317.md?page=6)