# Lost 5.16/5.17 "The Incident" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317 "2009-05-13T18:16:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/161 "2009-05-14T18:00:13Z")
27 The boys grew up, and Esau became a skillful hunter, a man of the open country, while Jacob was a quiet man, staying among the tents. 28 Isaac, who had a taste for wild game, loved Esau, but Rebekah loved Jacob. 29 Once when Jacob was cooking some stew, Esau came in from the open country, famished. 30 He said to Jacob, “Quick, let me have some of that red stew! I’m famished!” (That is why he was also called Edom.) 31 Jacob replied, “First sell me your birthright.” 32 “Look, I am about to die,” Esau said. “What good is the birthright to me?” 33 But Jacob said, “Swear to me first.” So he swore an oath to him, selling his birthright to Jacob. 34 Then Jacob gave Esau some bread and some lentil stew. He ate and drank, and then got up and left. So Esau despised his birthright. So, Esau not only had his blessing stolen by Jacob (right before their father Isaac died, as Jacob impersonated Esau), but he sold his first-born rights to Jacob for almost nothing. They did not get along after that: 38 Esau said to his father, “Do you have only one blessing, my father? Bless me too, my father!” Then Esau wept aloud. 39 His father Isaac answered him, "Your dwelling will be away from the earth’s richness, away from the dew of heaven above. 40 You will live by the sword and you will serve your brother. But when you grow restless, you will throw his yoke from off your neck." Jacob Flees to Laban 41 Esau held a grudge against Jacob because of the blessing his father had given him. He said to himself, “The days of mourning for my father are near; then I will kill my brother Jacob.” 42 When Rebekah was told what her older son Esau had said, she sent for her younger son Jacob and said to him, “Your brother Esau is consoling himself with the thought of killing you. 43 Now then, my son, do what I say: Flee at once to my brother Laban in Haran. 44 Stay with him for a while until your brother’s fury subsides. 45 When your brother is no longer angry with you and forgets what you did to him, I’ll send word for you to come back from there. Why should I lose both of you in one day?” ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/162 "2009-05-14T18:00:55Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > They’ve made a big deal about Hurley being “special,” although Christian appeared to **Jack off-island** too. [![](https://www.lust-for-life.org/Lust-For-Life/Cartoons/ImageFiles/BeavisButthead.jpg) ](https://www.lust-for-life.org/Lust-For-Life/Cartoons/ImageFiles/BeavisButthead.jpg) > [@DrDeth](#): > > Except that Kate doesn’t really have any noticible freckles. What was Sawyers nickname for her again? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/163 "2009-05-14T18:12:27Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Here’s what I want to know…Richard should be fairly on the ball as far as island stuff goes. It seems strange that he’d voluntarily lead everyone to Jacob so they could kill him. Sure, he didn’t technically know the plan…but if he has been on the island for hundreds of years, and he owes Jacob for never aging, I would imagine he’d know that there’s someone out there gunning for Jacob. > > -Joe I think that there’s more to the loophole than just “Esau can’t kill Jacob, but anyone else can.” So Richard probably wasn’t too worried. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/164 "2009-05-14T18:15:00Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > 27 The boys grew up, and Esau became a skillful hunter, a man of the open country, while Jacob was a quiet man, staying among the tents. 28 Isaac, who had a taste for wild game, loved Esau, but Rebekah loved Jacob. > > 29 Once when Jacob was cooking some stew, Esau came in from the open country, famished. 30 He said to Jacob, “Quick, let me have some of that red stew! I’m famished!” (That is why he was also called Edom.) > > 31 Jacob replied, “First sell me your birthright.” > > 32 “Look, I am about to die,” Esau said. “What good is the birthright to me?” > > 33 But Jacob said, “Swear to me first.” So he swore an oath to him, selling his birthright to Jacob. > > 34 Then Jacob gave Esau some bread and some lentil stew. He ate and drank, and then got up and left. So Esau despised his birthright. > So, Esau not only had his blessing stolen by Jacob (right before their father Isaac died, as Jacob impersonated Esau), but he sold his first-born rights to Jacob for almost nothing. They did not get along after that: > > 38 Esau said to his father, “Do you have only one blessing, my father? Bless me too, my father!” Then Esau wept aloud. > > 39 His father Isaac answered him, > "Your dwelling will be > away from the earth’s richness, > away from the dew of heaven above. > > 40 You will live by the sword > and you will serve your brother. > But when you grow restless, > you will throw his yoke > from off your neck." > Jacob Flees to Laban > 41 Esau held a grudge against Jacob because of the blessing his father had given him. He said to himself, “The days of mourning for my father are near; then I will kill my brother Jacob.” > > 42 When Rebekah was told what her older son Esau had said, she sent for her younger son Jacob and said to him, “Your brother Esau is consoling himself with the thought of killing you. 43 Now then, my son, do what I say: Flee at once to my brother Laban in Haran. 44 Stay with him for a while until your brother’s fury subsides. 45 When your brother is no longer angry with you and forgets what you did to him, I’ll send word for you to come back from there. Why should I lose both of you in one day?” Seem like Jacob’s the asshole in that story. That’s what I’ve never understood. Isn’t he held up as a hero of sorts? Name changed to Israel and all… ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/165 "2009-05-14T18:20:04Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#): > > I’ve been thinking about the Esau/Jacob connection ever since Ben got all biblical talking about Thomas to Jack in the church several episodes back. A few things: > > 1- Esau was a hunter and is often symbolized by the boar. When “Locke” returns to Richard after his death, he was carrying a boar he’d just killed. Not only that, but waaaay back in the first season, one of the earliest unanswered questions that has stuck in my head all this time for some reason revolved around Locke and a boar. I can’t remember the exact details now, but Locke was left alone face-to-face with a wild boar with nothing but a hunting knife. I want to say the smoke monster was around too, but I could be wrong there. It looks like curtains for Locke, but next time we see him, he’s walking into camp with a dead boar, and it’s at that point he starts getting really spooky about the island. I think if you look up the old “unanswered Lost questions” running thread, there’s one about what happened with Locke and the boar. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/166 "2009-05-14T18:23:54Z")
**smeghead** : Good catch. I remembered only the vague outlines of that. Curiouser and curiouser… ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/167 "2009-05-14T18:25:07Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > I think if you look up the old “unanswered Lost questions” running thread, there’s one about what happened with Locke and the boar. Links to those threads are in the OP, btw. And thanks again to **Trion** for keeping these threads going all season. ---
**Author:** ![Encinitas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Encinitas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Encinitas)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/168 "2009-05-14T18:29:08Z")
I noted that as they approached the 4 toed foot/temple this episode Sun wondered what happed to the rest of the stature. H-bomb anyone? ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/169 "2009-05-14T18:32:03Z")
> [@Encinitas](#): > > I noted that as they approached the 4 toed foot/temple this episode Sun wondered what happed to the rest of the stature. H-bomb anyone? Yeah, and after Ben and Locke go inside, I couldn’t help but wonder why they didn’t just jump in through the skylight instead of messing with that big ass sliding door. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/170 "2009-05-14T18:34:47Z")
This is funny. I went to wiki to look up Esau and this is in the first paragraph. > **[Esau](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esau)** > > Esau\[a\] is the elder son of Isaac in the Hebrew Bible. He is mentioned in the Book of Genesis and by the prophets Obadiah and Malachi. The story of Jacob and Esau reflects the historical relationship between Israel and Edom, aiming to explain why Israel, despite being a younger kingdom, dominated Edom. The Christian New Testament alludes to him in the Epistle to the Romans and in the Epistle to the Hebrews. > According to the Hebrew Bible, Esau is the progenitor of the Edomites and the elder broth... > [@](#): > > Rebekah bore Esau first and Jacob was birthed second, holding onto Esau’s heel.[5] Thus, this subsequent occurrence traditionally entitled Esau to inherit the wealth of his father after his death. Esau’s stepfather was Charles and he had a son named Ben. Ben would eventually grow up and kill Jacob. Eloise, Daniel’s mother, would dedicate her life to finding Esau, so that she could avenge Jacob’s death. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/171 "2009-05-14T18:34:51Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > Links to those threads are in the OP, btw. And thanks again to **Trion** for keeping these threads going all season. Well, if you guys want to give up your birthright, I’m all to happy to take it. 😉 Seriously, if there’s one place I like being on the internet, it’s at the intersection between the Straight Dope community and the Lost community. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/172 "2009-05-14T18:37:51Z")
No, Juliet had a sister named Rachel. She was, like Kate, a brunette, but the actresses portraying the adult characters are definitely different. Maybe the child actors are less distinguishable. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/173 "2009-05-14T18:41:02Z")
> [@Tahssa](#): > > This is funny. I went to wiki to look up Esau and this is in the first paragraph. > > [Esau - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esau) :eek: HOLY CHRIST! Lost is awesome! ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/174 "2009-05-14T18:42:45Z")
It was probably just wikipedia vandalism. There’s nothing in there about Eloise or Daniel now. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/175 "2009-05-14T19:03:20Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It was probably just wikipedia vandalism. There’s nothing in there about Eloise or Daniel now. Damn. I’m not exactly up on my bible, so I thought it was real. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/176 "2009-05-14T19:09:09Z")
If the ship seen in the opening scene was the Black Rock, then the statue was intact in the nineteenth century. But when we see it, we see only the foot. So what happened in the past 150 years or so to cause everything else to disappear? (I’d expect to at least see the ruins of the rest of it.) Perhaps it disappeared during The Incident? ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/177 "2009-05-14T19:09:57Z")
Just came in to say I just noticed “Horace” might just be “Horus”. Maybe in a previous thread that had been noted, but I’m kind of dense sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/178 "2009-05-14T19:11:19Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Perhaps it disappeared during The Incident? Since that seems to be everyone’s first guess, I wonder how the writers will really explain it? ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/179 "2009-05-14T19:11:52Z")
> [@Encinitas](#): > > I noted that as they approached the 4 toed foot/temple this episode Sun wondered what happed to the rest of the stature. H-bomb anyone? > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > If the ship seen in the opening scene was the Black Rock, then the statue was intact in the nineteenth century. But when we see it, we see only the foot. So what happened in the past 150 years or so to cause everything else to disappear? (I’d expect to at least see the ruins of the rest of it.) > > Perhaps it disappeared during The Incident? I feel like I’m in a time warp. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317/180 "2009-05-14T19:13:31Z")
Well… If the statue got blown up by the H-Bomb, I think everyone on the island got vaporized. The Swan was near the beach that the Losties hung out at. So, the bomb was, too. The statue some ways around the island, since nobody saw it until they circled around the island on a sail boat. I’m thinking that the destruction of the statue has something do with the arrival of the Black Rock (and, more particularly, dynamite) on the island. -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-16-5-17-the-incident/496317.md?page=10)