# Lost 5.4 "The Little Prince" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 4, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451 "2009-02-04T18:25:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/101 "2009-02-06T15:34:26Z")
> [@MTRG](#): > > Oh, BTW > > my 2 cents…the young Danielle is pretty hot Thought the same. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/102 "2009-02-06T15:54:17Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > I was thinking about that today, and I think it can be explained by the scene from last year where the body of the doctor from the freighter washed up on the beach. We saw that he was killed _later_ on the freighter (later freighter!), so as his body drifted to the island, it travelled back in time by a day or so. The same thing could have happened to Jin; he floated to the island in a similar way, so he arrived there prior to the point in time that the jumps started. I don’t have access to the episode, but didn’t the explosion of the boat occur minutes before Ben turned the giant underground captain’s wheel? If yes, then Jin could not have drifted into the “time shift zone”… on the other hand, had he drifted to the island in a few days time, would he still be “affected” by the time-shifting phases? ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/103 "2009-02-06T16:09:40Z")
I’m late to the thread because I had to watch online yesterday and I didn’t want to get spoiled by anything and I’m glad I did because … Yay, Jin! I did speculate at the end of last season that he could have been blasted off the boat and still be alive. Yay! Nothing else to say except, Yay Jin! ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/104 "2009-02-06T16:11:31Z")
I tend to think it is somewhere between **borschevsky** and **MTRG’s** theories, but in reality, I think it will ultimately be a “Wizard did it” moment. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/105 "2009-02-06T16:34:27Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I refer you to BACK TO THE FUTURE for an example of how they could address that paradox–that there’s “temporal inertia”. Changes in the past take time (you know what I mean 😉 ) to ripple forward to the present. > > Granted that’s entirely inconsistent with how it’s been described in the show, but frankly, of the people who understand time travel at all, even a little, Desmond is the _only_ one I trust. I was going to post… Yes, BUT, when Faraday gave the message to Desmond at the hatch he remembered immediately(waking up from his dream). It then occured to me though, that by what I was thinking, Desmond should have already known before that due to “the future consequences” of Faraday’s actions. Then I remembered that “Desmond is special” somehow. So basically I’m back to less answers, more questions again. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Elysium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@Elysium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysium)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/106 "2009-02-06T16:47:31Z")
This ep was great, I’m glad we are seeing Rousseau’s past. Do we remember how old she should be here? I thought maybe 19, is that accurate? I’m curious to see how Jin’s situation turns out! ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/107 "2009-02-06T16:52:46Z")
> [@Elysium](#): > > This ep was great, I’m glad we are seeing Rousseau’s past. Do we remember how old she should be here? I thought maybe 19, is that accurate? She did look young in this episode, but she supposedly arrived on the island as part of a six-person scienctific expedition. I’d expect her to have required more education just to qualify for the team. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/108 "2009-02-06T17:26:07Z")
She was 44, so that would make her 28. Not sure how old the girl that plays her actually is. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/109 "2009-02-06T19:42:23Z")
I’m fearing that the writers dug themselves too deep a hole when wandering into time travel territory. Too many inconsistencies seem to be popping up. -So when you jump back in time to a point where you were physically present on the island, are there two of you now on the island? Claire/Alpert were present on the island when the shifting began, however when the island jumped backwards their younger selves were there. Do they exsist in two locations? Which brings me to the losties (non Locke/Sawyer group) who are all hanging out at the beach jumping in time. When the island jumped to the time of Claire giving birth, I assume the losties (Claire/Kate time) were there too? So were there lostie doubles all seeing themselves at the beach? -When you jump through time can you take objects with you? Only ones you originally had with you? Shouldn’t the canoe have disappeared when they time jumped? -The Jin question is a good one too. Island is at point A, boat exploding with Jin is at point B, after boat explodes helicopter immediately heads back toward the island putting it somewhere between point A and B. Island (A) disappears and takes Jin (B) with it but doesn’t take the helicopter with it which is inbetween the two? Time travel plots get mighty sticky and unless you’re doing a comedy like Back To The Future you can work yourself into a corner really fast. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/110 "2009-02-06T21:03:29Z")
[fanwank] The freighter had moved as close as they dared to the Island–right up to the edge of the Timefield[sup]TM[/sup]. Jin could have been blown just far enough towards the Island to be included in the first flash. The helicopter, although closer to the Island horizontally, had enough vertical height to be above the limit of the Timefield[sup]TM[/sup] bubble which is fairly low that far from the source [/fanwank] ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/111 "2009-02-06T21:09:44Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > -So when you jump back in time to a point where you were physically present on the island, are there two of you now on the island? Claire/Alpert were present on the island when the shifting began, however when the island jumped backwards their younger selves were there. Do they exsist in two locations? > Which brings me to the losties (non Locke/Sawyer group) who are all hanging out at the beach jumping in time. When the island jumped to the time of Claire giving birth, I assume the losties (Claire/Kate time) were there too? So were there lostie doubles all seeing themselves at the beach? Well Faraday would say they can never meet, because they never met…but Faraday proved that it is possible to interact with people in the normal time stream. Still, the various people jumping around in time could be a “logical” explanation for the whispering in the jungle. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/112 "2009-02-06T21:39:55Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > -So when you jump back in time to a point where you were physically present on the island, are there two of you now on the island? Claire/Alpert were present on the island when the shifting began, however when the island jumped backwards their younger selves were there. Do they exsist in two locations? Well, we haven’t seen Claire, but we know that Alpert is not time jumping with the losties. We also don’t know exactly what happened to the island itself when Ben turned the donkey wheel. At that point the losties still on the island started time jumping, but in their jumps they don’t move relative to the island. Jack and everyone outside saw the island disappear, which would seem to be a separate effect from the time jumping. We don’t know that the island itself moved back in time. In fact I would guess that the island only moved its location, or jumped forward in time. > [@Hampshire](#): > > Which brings me to the losties (non Locke/Sawyer group) who are all hanging out at the beach jumping in time. When the island jumped to the time of Claire giving birth, I assume the losties (Claire/Kate time) were there too? So were there lostie doubles all seeing themselves at the beach? If you trust Faraday, then there doesn’t seem to be a restriction against doubles running into themselves. However, if you didn’t run into your future self, then you can’t go back and create such a meeting. So, there was no meeting of doubles on the beach, because it didn’t happen back when Claire gave birth. > [@Hampshire](#): > > When you jump through time can you take objects with you? Only ones you originally had with you? Shouldn’t the canoe have disappeared when they time jumped? It appears they can take what they’re touching, although I don’t think they’ve made this exactly clear. For example, Locke gave the compass to Richard, and I think that stayed behind when they next jumped. Then they were talking in the last episode about the Zodiac, which they expected to find at the beach, although I’m pretty sure they weren’t touching it in all their jumps. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/113 "2009-02-06T23:58:05Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > -So when you jump back in time to a point where you were physically present on the island, are there two of you now on the island? Claire/Alpert were present on the island when the shifting began, however when the island jumped backwards their younger selves were there. Do they exsist in two locations? > Which brings me to the losties (non Locke/Sawyer group) who are all hanging out at the beach jumping in time. When the island jumped to the time of Claire giving birth, I assume the losties (Claire/Kate time) were there too? So were there lostie doubles all seeing themselves at the beach? I think the only other people jumping are Rose, Bernard, Vincent, and maye a few redshirts. They all split up after getting fired on, so we don’t know whee they are at. Fun theory: All those times that Vincent showed up just before something bad happened was actually future Vincent trying to warn people. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/114 "2009-02-07T00:15:43Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I’m fearing that the writers dug themselves too deep a hole when wandering into time travel territory. Too many inconsistencies seem to be popping up. > > -So when you jump back in time to a point where you were physically present on the island, are there two of you now on the island? Claire/Alpert were present on the island when the shifting began, however when the island jumped backwards their younger selves were there. Do they exsist in two locations? I’m not sure those two are shifting, but even if they are I don’t see the contradiction. There’s no contradiction involved in both the younger and older version of a person being present in different places at the same time. > [@](#): > > Which brings me to the losties (non Locke/Sawyer group) who are all hanging out at the beach jumping in time. Are they? I’m not sure about that. But did I miss something? I’ve been wondering where they have all been since the fire arrow attack. > [@](#): > > -When you jump through time can you take objects with you? Only ones you originally had with you? Shouldn’t the canoe have disappeared when they time jumped? This bothers me too. It looks like there’s a fairly consistent rule that whatever you’re touching comes along with you (thought what about the outboard boat? Didn’t it jump without anyone touching it)? But that rule itself is fraught with engineering problems to the point of implausibility. How could any physical principle governing time travel “understand” (so to speak) the distinction between touching and non touching medium sized physical objects like people, clothes, rafts and so on? > [@](#): > > -The Jin question is a good one too. Island is at point A, boat exploding with Jin is at point B, after boat explodes helicopter immediately heads back toward the island putting it somewhere between point A and B. Island (A) disappears and takes Jin (B) with it but doesn’t take the helicopter with it which is inbetween the two? I brought this up with my wife this morning, it bothers me too. Could Jin possibly have been blown that far in the explosion without dying or being seriously maimed? Or something? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/115 "2009-02-07T00:47:28Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Fun theory: All those times that Vincent showed up just before something bad happened was actually future Vincent trying to warn people. Nice one. Got a newsletter? > [@Frylock](#): > > This bothers me too. It looks like there’s a fairly consistent rule that whatever you’re touching comes along with you (thought what about the outboard boat? Didn’t it jump without anyone touching it)? But that rule itself is fraught with engineering problems to the point of implausibility. How could any physical principle governing time travel “understand” (so to speak) the distinction between touching and non touching medium sized physical objects like people, clothes, rafts and so on? Maybe each person has their own time bubble? Though, I’m sure that can stretch and grow as the [del]writer’s[/del] Island sees fit. > [@](#): > > I brought this up with my wife this morning, it bothers me too. Could Jin possibly have been blown that far in the explosion without dying or being seriously maimed? Or something? IIRC, the flash/jump didn’t happen immediately after the explosion. Perhaps he had enough time to drift in? Maybe got a friendly push by a Dharma-shark? My question has to do with the bearing; wasn’t Faraday very specific that entering/exiting the Island’s bubble had to be on the most precise heading? I suppose this one could just be excused as the Island “made it happen”, same as it kept Michael from being killed. Doesn’t really explain the helicopter’s escape, but the above the bubble idea works for me. Speaking of DharmAnimals, are the boars now the biggest wild animals left on the island? Did the Losties actually drive the not-so-polar bears to extinction? Is there anything more to learn about the animals, or was their mystery wrapped up as simply Dharma doing animal testing? With the time-dopplegangers- does anyone remember if they came into direct contact in Primer? What was the effect there if so? I bet on the Island, at the very least, you’d get one hell of a nose bleed. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/116 "2009-02-08T05:20:02Z")
Just a side note (and I may be way late to this particular party): Doesn’t the frozen wheel thingy explain the need for polar bears on the island? Big heavy wheel, frozen cave deal-y; what would the ramifications be of training the bears to continually push the wheel? Would the island keep jumping in time? Has this been discussed to death somewhere else and I am making a fool of myself? Won’t someone please help me? Please? Please? ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/117 "2009-02-08T06:46:23Z")
I was wondering if they used the polar bears, so the polar bears got sent off the island, not an Other/Dharma/Whoever else, rather than them continually pushing the wheel. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/118 "2009-02-08T07:53:36Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > But that won’t happen exactly that way - We know that Locke gets off the island and dies ‘3 years later’ time. Unless we trade corpse-Locke for lostie-Locke somehow. > > So somewhere along the line the losties experience the passage of some portion of the 3 years ‘real time’ even though their surroundings are jumping around. Maybe, maybe not… (well, “some portion”, sure. But some portion could just be a few days). Locke might get off the island when they have jumped forward 3 years, then die shortly after. Could only be a week or two personal time from the start of the time jumps and him ending up in the coffin. Or maybe he lives 3 years in the interim. Who knows? > [@tds1273](#): > > Oh and with Hurley and the cops, was that Ben pulling strings, lazy police work, or lazy writing? So the cops came to the conclusion that the guy that fell over the hotel railing, and was immediately surrounded by witnesses died before Hurley made a run for it? Did they not also find the guy stuck to the dishwasher too? Those actually weren’t the ones that Ben’s lawyer reported to him on, I don’t think. The one he mentioned that they determined died before Hurley escaped – that was referring to his escape from the mental institution – there was somebody killed outside the institution. The assumption was that Hurley was the perp, but the lawyer said they determined that guy died before Hurley got out. Although, that shouldn’t clear Hurley of Railing Guy and Dishwasher Dude.\ > [@borschevsky](#): > > Then they were talking in the last episode about the Zodiac, which they expected to find at the beach, although I’m pretty sure they weren’t touching it in all their jumps. Yes, but in that jump they jumped into the future, to some point where somebody had come and destroyed the camp and drank all of Sawyer’s Dharma beer. They wouldn’t need to touch the Zodiac and move it with them – they were just expecting it to be there, because it was already there on the beach at the “present” time when they started jumping. For instance, if you jump to tomorrow, it still should be there of its own accord, because that’s in the future (and it was already sitting there in its own past). Unless of course, somebody took it. > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Fun theory: All those times that Vincent showed up just before something bad happened was actually future Vincent trying to warn people. That dog knows things… ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/119 "2009-02-08T07:54:20Z")
> [@St.Urho](#): > > I was wondering if they used the polar bears, so the polar bears got sent off the island, not an Other/Dharma/Whoever else, rather than them continually pushing the wheel. That’s true. Didn’t Charlotte find a Dharma Bear in Tunisia? (The same place Ben was sent too). Although that could just be dharma discovering the wheel and going “I’m not sure if we should turn this. Let’s get the bear to do it!” ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/120 "2009-02-08T07:58:55Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > This bothers me too. It looks like there’s a fairly consistent rule that whatever you’re touching comes along with you (thought what about the outboard boat? Didn’t it jump without anyone touching it)? If we’re talking about the Zodiac being with them after the first jump (in the season premiere), I believe that Daniel and several others (including Frogurt) were **IN** the Zodiac, originally heading towards the freighter when it blew up – and were still in the boat when Ben turned the wheel and the shifting began. They were between the island and the ex-freighter. > [@St.Urho](#): > > I was wondering if they used the polar bears, so the polar bears got sent off the island, not an Other/Dharma/Whoever else, rather than them continually pushing the wheel. They probably just started breeding big Arctic hamsters… 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451.md?page=7)