# Lost 5.4 "The Little Prince" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 4, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451 "2009-02-04T18:25:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/121 "2009-02-08T09:18:35Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > That’s true. Didn’t Charlotte find a Dharma Bear in Tunisia? (The same place Ben was sent too). > > Although that could just be dharma discovering the wheel and going “I’m not sure if we should turn this. Let’s get the bear to do it!” That’s kind of what I’m thinking- why get one of your guys sent off the island when you can send a polar bear? > [@Monstre](#): > > They probably just started breeding big Arctic hamsters… 😉 Which are easily mistaken for polar bears, really… ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/122 "2009-02-08T10:08:54Z")
> [@phungi](#): > > If yes, then Jin could not have drifted into the “time shift zone”… on the other hand, had he drifted to the island in a few days time, would he still be “affected” by the time-shifting phases? This bothered me too, especially since the helicopter was closer than Jin and didn’t time jump. I guess although the helicopter was ‘closer’ horizontally it was ‘above’ the time bubble and either: 1. The boat was right at the edge of the time bubble and Jin got blown off the ship and into just inside the radius or 2. The boat had already drifted into the radius, and moved with the island, but is not along for the time shifts because Jin wasn’t touching it We know that the boat isn’t time shifting because Sawyer saw it (or it’s smoke) disappear. However it’s possible it did jump with the island, because the helicopter didn’t see it after the flash, and presumably if they thought it was still around they would have asked Penny to go to the wreckage to look for survivors. > [@tds1273](#): > > With the time-dopplegangers- does anyone remember if they came into direct contact in Primer? What was the effect there if so? I bet on the Island, at the very least, you’d get one hell of a nose bleed. In Primer, I think one of the characters knocked his counterpart out and dragged him into the attic, so there was touching. As far as Lost, I think anyone can interact with anyone in the past that there is already a record of it happening for. I think if anyone tries to do something that hasn’t already ‘happened’, like if Sawyer tried to talk to Kate, it will cause them to flash to another time. As far as people interacting with themselves, as long as they remember meeting their future self it’s ok - however, based on the Orchid outtake video, where Chang was yelling not to let the bunny duplicates touch, it would seem you aren’t allowed to touch yourself. > [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > Doesn’t the frozen wheel thingy explain the need for polar bears on the island? The polar bears were already explained as being one of the animals being experimented on at the Hydra station. Although I suppose it’s possible they were already on the island when Dharma got there and they just took advantage. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/123 "2009-02-08T14:40:30Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > The polar bears were already explained as being one of the animals being experimented on at the Hydra station. Although I suppose it’s possible they were already on the island when Dharma got there and they just took advantage. But what were the “experiments”? Repeating simple tasks for rewards, right? Can we speculate about what the implications of turning the frozen polar bear wheel continually would be? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/124 "2009-02-08T14:42:13Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > But what were the “experiments”? Repeating simple tasks for rewards, right? Can we speculate about what the implications of turning the frozen polar bear wheel continually would be? Let’s not forget the Dharma polar bear skeleton that Charlotte found in Tunisia–near where Ben popped out when he used the FDW (frozen donkey wheel). ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/125 "2009-02-08T15:45:21Z")
> [@tds1273](#): > > Maybe got a friendly push by a Dharma-shark? Speaking of Sharks, did anyone get the feeling a Dharma shark was going to play a role in all those water scenes this week? As for touching dopplegangers, didn’t one of the Candle/Wickman videos warn that the dopplegangers should not touch? Some rabbits or something? ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/126 "2009-02-08T17:46:50Z")
Way back from page 1, but I didn’t have time to watch this episode until yesterday: > [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > - I thought Ben told Locke he couldn’t go back to the island? or was he just screwing with him? I wondered this too, and along the same lines, it seems strange that Locke is so nonchalant about planning to leave the island himself. After all his obsessing about not wanting to leave the island, believing it’s his “destiny” to be there, etc., and then being told that whoever moves the island can never go back, it’s odd that he’d just up and say, “oh, I guess I’ll try doing the same thing Ben did, and be teleported off the island; then I can convince everyone else to come back, but I’ll be stuck back in the real world forever. No big deal.” > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > That’s true. Didn’t Charlotte find a Dharma Bear in Tunisia? (The same place Ben was sent too). > > Although that could just be dharma discovering the wheel and going “I’m not sure if we should turn this. Let’s get the bear to do it!” The problem with this DHARMA-experimenting-with-the-frozen-donkey-wheel hypothesis is that we’ve been shown that DHARMA (or at least, Marvin Candle in the past) believed they must not go anywhere near it. Remember the flashback from earlier this season when they were building the Orchid, and Candle was summoned because their drill bits started to melt? The foreman showed Candle an ultrasound picture they’d taken of what was behind that rock wall and we saw an outline of the wheel. Then Candle made a big deal about how they had to stop drilling because they couldn’t risk disturbing that “energy source” or something like that. Later, Ben had to cram all of that metal into that chamber and turn on the equipment–something the DHARMA instructional materials strictly warned against–to blast through that wall to reach the wheel. It certainly looked like no one had been there in a very, very long time. But, I suppose it’s possible that in the intervening years, DHARMA found a safe way to reach the wheel, experimented with it for a while, then sealed it off again. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/127 "2009-02-08T18:01:16Z")
Oh, and I second what’s been said about Jack’s annoyingness (ever notice how often his response to someone’s statement is a bewildered “what?”) and the phenomenon of characters not answering each other’s questions/saying “that’s not important right now.” It’s always been an unfortunate feature of this show, but it seems to be getting worse. From the scene on Penny’s boat at the beginning: > [@](#): > > Kate: I think we should say he’s mine. > Jack: What? Three years later: > [@](#): > > Kate: Someone’s trying to take Aaron away from me. > Jake: What? And then there was [this](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Little_Prince_transcript): > [@](#): > > SAWYER: Bring who back? > > LOCKE: Jack, Sun, Sayid, Hugo, Kate. > > SAWYER: The boat blew up, and that chopper was probably on it. > > LOCKE: They’re not dead, James. > > SAWYER: Says who? > > LOCKE: That doesn’t matter. All that matters is they’ve gotta come back. It doesn’t matter?! Uh, I think it’s kind of important if you want to bring them back, Locke, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/128 "2009-02-08T19:32:31Z")
With regard to the watch being exchanged between Richard and Locke, isn’t it caught in a time loop with no way in or out of the loop? Richard gives it to Locke who gives it to Richard who gives it to Locke, etc… How did it get from Grampa’s Swiss Watch Mega-Emporium into the loop? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/129 "2009-02-08T19:36:24Z")
> [@Shamozzle](#): > > With regard to the watch being exchanged between Richard and Locke, isn’t it caught in a time loop with no way in or out of the loop? Richard gives it to Locke who gives it to Richard who gives it to Locke, etc… How did it get from Grampa’s Swiss Watch Mega-Emporium into the loop? I brought this up in the last topic. At some point Richard must get the compass (not a watch) from somewhere else and have two. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/130 "2009-02-08T21:59:13Z")
> [@St.Urho](#): > > That’s kind of what I’m thinking- why get one of your guys sent off the island when you can send a polar bear? Because you still won’t know what happened to the bear - he’s not going to arrive somewhere, borrow someone’s cell phone, and phone in. All you’ll know is that a polar bear is gone. You may have promoted it to godhood, and you have have disintegrated it. Or you may have sent it to Tunisia. Unless he figures out how to work a phone (or he’s a Homing Polar Bear) you’ll never know what actually happened. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/131 "2009-02-08T22:32:21Z")
> [@Shamozzle](#): > > With regard to the watch being exchanged between Richard and Locke, isn’t it caught in a time loop with no way in or out of the loop? Richard gives it to Locke who gives it to Richard who gives it to Locke, etc… It may be caught in a “time loop”, yes. > [@](#): > > How did it get from Grampa’s Swiss Watch Mega-Emporium into the loop? Perhaps it didn’t. Perhaps it’s never been in Grampa’s Swiss Watch Mega-Emporium. > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I brought this up in the last topic. At some point Richard must get the compass (not a watch) from somewhere else and have two. Not necessarily. There’s nothing logically impermissible about a “time loop”. Whether you find it a satisfying possibility or not is up to you, of course. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/132 "2009-02-08T23:29:32Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Because you still won’t know what happened to the bear - he’s not going to arrive somewhere, borrow someone’s cell phone, and phone in. All you’ll know is that a polar bear is gone. You may have promoted it to godhood, and you have have disintegrated it. Or you may have sent it to Tunisia. > > Unless he figures out how to work a phone (or he’s a Homing Polar Bear) you’ll never know what actually happened. > > -Joe \ I think what was being suggested is that when Dharma FOUND the wheel, and didn’t know what it did, the safest idea was to have an animal turn the wheel (assuming you had already decided it needed to be turned). So you bribe Ling-Ling to turn the wheel and POOF Ling Ling’s gone, and you’ve just moved the island. Thereafter, you probably decide to only do that when you absolutely have to, like when there’s a hydrogen bomb on the island and someone hasn’t pressed the damned button to stop it from detonating. Or something. And if you’re someone like Ben, you probably track down that archaeologist that found a polar bear with the collar on it in Tunisia. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/133 "2009-02-09T00:54:42Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > \ > > I think what was being suggested is that when Dharma FOUND the wheel, and didn’t know what it did, the safest idea was to have an animal turn the wheel (assuming you had already decided it needed to be turned). So you bribe Ling-Ling to turn the wheel and POOF Ling Ling’s gone, and you’ve just moved the island. Thereafter, you probably decide to only do that when you absolutely have to, like when there’s a hydrogen bomb on the island and someone hasn’t pressed the damned button to stop it from detonating. Or something. > > And if you’re someone like Ben, you probably track down that archaeologist that found a polar bear with the collar on it in Tunisia. You might be right, but it still seems unlikely. “Aaah! Whatever you do, stop drilling before you hit it and kill us all!” doesn’t quite fit with the attitude of “Eh, sure, what the hell, let’s turn the wheel and see what happens.” I wonder if the power source is the H-bomb somehow? Due to exposure to screwy-time it’s in a permanent state of energy release or something… -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/134 "2009-02-09T01:07:37Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > You might be right, but it still seems unlikely. > > “Aaah! Whatever you do, stop drilling before you hit it and kill us all!” doesn’t quite fit with the attitude of “Eh, sure, what the hell, let’s turn the wheel and see what happens.” He might have been conning us there. Perhaps he just wanted the workers to stay away from the area so that he could get the bears hooked up to the wheel. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/135 "2009-02-09T01:13:49Z")
Well if a character has the ability to lie or mislead on this show, then how could we ever know what’s going on!?!?!? ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/136 "2009-02-09T04:31:14Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Not necessarily. There’s nothing logically impermissible about a “time loop”. Whether you find it a satisfying possibility or not is up to you, of course. The watch is still subject to entropy. If it were stuck in an infinite time loop it would immediately turn into dust. Not that the writers would necessarily realize this. A single loop is the only plausible explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/137 "2009-02-09T04:34:34Z")
There’s logic and then there’s physics. There are any number of reasons to imagine that the laws of physics in the universe of Lost are not entirely the same as those we are accustomed to. You might as well complain “But we know people do not rise from the dead!”. (It’s also not clear to me that your explanation of the effects of entropy is correct even within the laws of physics as we know them, but I don’t particularly care to quibble about it at the moment) ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/138 "2009-02-09T12:47:29Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > He might have been conning us there. Perhaps he just wanted the workers to stay away from the area so that he could get the bears hooked up to the wheel. Marvin: “You fools! Stay away from our frozen donkey wheel! Don’t you understand that I must connect my army of mutant polar bears to it!” Construction Worker: “Sure, Doc. We’ll be on break.” -Joe ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/139 "2009-02-09T14:46:17Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Because you still won’t know what happened to the bear - he’s not going to arrive somewhere, borrow someone’s cell phone, and phone in. All you’ll know is that a polar bear is gone. You may have promoted it to godhood, and you have have disintegrated it. Or you may have sent it to Tunisia. > > Unless he figures out how to work a phone (or he’s a Homing Polar Bear) you’ll never know what actually happened. > > -Joe I think the Others SENT Charlotte to look for the Bear. Remember that wicked smile when she saw the damn thing?! It wasn’t a “what the hell is a polar bear doing in the desert?” look. It was “Exactly as we hoped.” look. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451/140 "2009-02-09T14:55:45Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Because you still won’t know what happened to the bear - he’s not going to arrive somewhere, borrow someone’s cell phone, and phone in. All you’ll know is that a polar bear is gone. You may have promoted it to godhood, and you have have disintegrated it. Or you may have sent it to Tunisia. > > Unless he figures out how to work a phone (or he’s a Homing Polar Bear) you’ll never know what actually happened. > > -Joe Perhaps they were less interested in what happened to the bear and more interested in what happens on the island when the donkey wheel gets turned. After they tried a human volunteer to turn it (Widmore?) and he vanished, they decided a trained bear might be a safer bet for insurance purposes. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-4-the-little-prince/484451.md?page=8)