# Lost 5.5 "This Place Is Death" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 11, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401 "2009-02-11T18:35:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![gladtobeblazed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@gladtobeblazed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gladtobeblazed)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/181 "2009-02-16T04:15:12Z")
Anyone notice at the beginning, the voice on the radio repeating the numbers sounds very much like Hurley. ---
**Author:** ![mshar253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/182 "2009-02-16T06:40:12Z")
> [@gladtobeblazed](#): > > Anyone notice at the beginning, the voice on the radio repeating the numbers sounds very much like Hurley. Someone did, but I’m not sure if it was here or the AV Club. And here’s [the link](http://lost.cubit.net/archives/2009/02/5x05-hugo-on-the-radio.php) for anyone interested. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/183 "2009-02-17T21:52:31Z")
I am surprised by how bad and clichéd the dialogue can be (with the exception of clever one-liners now and again) on a show, while still not really ruining how good it is. Character interactions are so silly (nobody telling anyone anything, chronic and pervasive lack of curiosity, high-school level romantic subplots, etc.), but the plot is so weird and contorted (and some characters are at least sympathetic or interesting) that it makes up for everything with its funhouse ride. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/184 "2009-02-18T09:49:30Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Sun agrees to go back – did she forget about herd? What do cows have to do with it? > [@N9IWP](#): > > The jump from the smoke monter lair - just a few days? According to Danielle’s story, about two months. > [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > The smoke monster is a security system for the temple? What? I’m mean, we’ve all suggested it, but how did the Frenchies figure it out? and I still don’t see why Rousseau thought the others had gone crazy…so. some answers, more questions. The Frenchies seem to have been possessed or mind altered when they went down into the monster’s lair. Danielle thinks they went crazy because they tries to kill her. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > How the hell can the Wheel tell the difference who’s turning it? Back into mystical mumbo-jumbo territory, IMO, but I suppose that makes sense since it’s Christian saying it. Well the wheel sends the turner off the island, so maybe Locke was supposed to be the one who left the island. But it’s not clear why the wheel went off the axis. > [@Fenris](#): > > Did anyone else notice that around the temple where Smokey’s lair was (when all the Crazy French Chick’s people went down the hole), there were the doomsday glyphs (from the button-pushing station if you don’t hit the button every 108 minutes) on the wall? Those are Egyptian heiroglyphics. We saw them on Ben’s secret monster summoning door too. > [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Oh - and I’m not sure I trust Ben, Widmore OR Jack’s father/Jacob Widmore and Ben definitely seem to have their own interests ahead of the island. Jacob/Christian would seemingly be protecting the island, as are Hurley’s ghosts, but it’s not clear why Kate’s dream Claire is against bringing back Aaron. > [@Fenris](#): > > 1. What if the Doomsday button really WAS a Doomsday button? > 2. Has anyone gone BACK to The Hatch after the Doomsday button didn’t get pushed? > 3. Why “The Orchid” for time travel or energy generation? > 4. Wait—we saw (last week) the army guys who set up the Numbers antenna that were picked up by the Aussie Guy and the loonie-bin guy who contaminated Hurley. > 5. I bet that Charlotte’s death forces Daniel to rethink his “What happened, happened” theory. ? 1. Typing in the numbers released the Swan energy in a controlled fashion every 108 minutes, keeping it from a catastrophic buildup. When they broke the computer, Desmond turned the failsafe key, which was some way of permanently releasing the energy or sealing the leak so it wouldn’t have a catastrophic buildup. It’s not clear why they just didn’t use the failsafe in the beginning instead of setting up the station with the 108 minute protocol. 2. We’ve seen the hatch post-purple flash several times. It imploded into a big crater in the ground. 3. Not sure about the reason for the names of the other stations, but it would seem that “The Orchid” was named to help it’s cover story as a botanical station. 4. The army guys didn’t build the antenna, they built the Jughead bomb tower. The Dharma initiative build the radio tower to broadcast the numbers, which signified key variables in an equation related to the possible end of the world - the experiments at the stations were an attempt to modify the variables and change the numbers thereby averting doomsday. 5. Daniel thinks that you can’t change time except in the case of Desmond, who has special properties, presumably because he turned the failsafe key. His love for Charlotte would probably make him try to save her anyway out of desperation, except that she already told him that he tried to save her and it didn’t work, so I don’t know what the point would be in trying now that he knows he fails. > [@Wheelz](#): > > I thought the girl in the bed was Charlotte. That was a girl he experimented on after the rat. From the picture it looks like they may have had some kind of romantic relationship as well. > [@eno801](#): > > anyone thinking the guy who shows up in the dharma training films Marvin Candle, I think, lost his arm like the French dude?? There’s definitely an amputation theme lol. But it seems more likely he either lost it in “the incident” (some problem at the Swan station) or to the Others (Widmore wanted to chop off Juliet’s arm when he was an Other). > [@Jester](#): > > Well, fiddlesticks. There goes my Lostie merit badge. 😛 Don’t worry about it, ten thousand fans over analyze every frame of every episode as soon as it airs, generating millions of possible fan theories. How can one compete with that? > [@cmyk](#): > > This was one of DI’s main issues (as well as the Other’s after the purge). We haven’t seen yet that the DI had the same problem, or even that the Others had that problem in the past. While some of the Dharma kids (Ben, Charlotte) came to the island after they were born, Chang’s baby seems pretty young to not have been born on the island. From the way that Ben made it his pet project so late in time (Juliet was only recruited three years ago) and with the hints that the Others think he should have been focusing on other things, I’m thinking that it may not have always been that way, and that Jacob isn’t concerned about it. > [@Dogzilla](#): > > I don’t think Annie is Charlotte at all. What bothers me about Charlotte is why/when/how did she learn to speak Korean? […] Has Miles forgotten all his Korean? (Is he even Korean at all?) Charlotte’s an anthropologist so it makes sense that she would be fluent in several languages. Miles is some kind of Asian, but as far as he knows he grew up in Encino. He probably only speaks English. Sawyer is the one who assumed that because he looks Asian he would be able to speak any Asian language. > [@Gfactor](#): > > There has been speculation (and IIRC hints) that the dream team was selected because some or all of them have been there before. This is probably one of the reasons. I was thinking it could also have to do with the fact that Widmore already met Charlotte, Miles, and Daniel in the past on the island, so he knows they are supposed to go back. Daniel was probably recruited for his experiments and his connection to Mrs Hawking. Frank probably because he was investigating the fake plane crash. Naomi we still don’t know much about, although it seems like she was already familiar with Abaddon. > [@HoboStew](#): > > Locke killed himself because that is the only way for him to get back to the island, where ostensibly he comes back to life, just like Christian did. Am I making any sense here? > [@Qwisp](#): > > I think they only have 70 hours because Eloise know they islands location right now and she knows that the island is going to disappear again. If they don’t all leave now she will have to go through the trouble of tracking the island again, and who knows how long that will take. I don’t think Christian is alive. He’s either a Hurely-type apparation, a monster reanimation like Yemi, or some other Jacob related apparation. The fact that he couldn’t help Locke in the cave makes it seem like he’s incorporeal. But I do think Locke getting resurrected is a possibility. It may be that the rules about not being allowed back to the island if you turn the wheel may not apply if you’re not alive. Maybe he has to go back as a dead body. And maybe 70 hours is the time they have left until he’s still able to resurrect by some Other technology. He may have been brought to the butcher because they have cold storage. 70 hours til the next island moving flash is also a good probability though. > [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Okay, more “seriously” – what was the deal with that power plant on the island that Daniel & Charlotte felt they had to get to so badly? I can’t remember & am confused with how it might fit with current speculations. That it was a power station was a cover story. It seems the DI was using it to create deadly chemicals, possibly to use against the Others, but the Others got to them first. Daniel and Charlotte had to disable the plant before it could be used to kill people on the island. It would seem they were trying to prevent Keamy’s team from using it, although it’s possible they were trying to prevent Ben to use it against them. > [@Hampshire](#): > > I think the armless guy is dead. I’m more apt to think the smoke monster after having contact with the guy was using his voice to lure the others in. Similar to when it manifested itself into Mr. Echos brother before killing him. It seems to have taken over the other members of the French team when they went down, so I don’t see why it couldn’t have taken over armless guy without him having to be dead first. Especially since future Danielle says “this is where he lost his arm” which implies he survived the incident. > [@Arcite](#): > > I think everyone has realized that it’s pointless to ask anyone on Lost questions, because instead of answering the question, they respond with another question, change the subject, reply “there’s no time to explain” or “that’s not important right now,” or are interrupted by a sudden thunderstorm or by someone crashing out of the jungle to deliver shocking news. 😉 That’s why you need someone like Sawyer to smack some sense into Daniel when he’s trying to obfuscate 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/185 "2009-02-18T14:15:35Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > 1. The army guys didn’t build the antenna, they built the Jughead bomb tower. The Dharma initiative build the radio tower to broadcast the numbers, which signified key variables in an equation related to the possible end of the world - the experiments at the stations were an attempt to modify the variables and change the numbers thereby averting doomsday. Does that timeline work though? I thought the Aussie guy (who’s friends with Hurley’s nuthouse buddy) heard the numbers in the late '50s, early '60s–about 10 years before Dharma got there. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/186 "2009-02-18T14:17:47Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > . Especially since future Danielle says “this is where he lost his arm” which implies he survived the incident. I’m drawing a blank. Was that in a past episode that Danielle said that? Who did she say it to? Was it in front of the temple? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/187 "2009-02-18T14:32:49Z")
Yanno what still bugs me? How did Ben (remember when he was Henry?) get stuck in the net? Did he do it on purpose to infiltrate the Others? On the one hand, they Others recruited Michael to free him, which suggests that he was not there voluntarily, but maybe that was all part of a larger plan. And without Michael away from the island, they couldn’t have stuck him on the boar as Kevin Johnson. How much of his future does Ben already know? He apparently had no fear of death from the Losties because he’s seen himself alive in the future. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/188 "2009-02-18T14:46:48Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > Yanno what still bugs me? How did Ben (remember when he was Henry?) get stuck in the net? Did he do it on purpose to infiltrate the Others? > > On the one hand, they Others recruited Michael to free him, which suggests that he was not there voluntarily, but maybe that was all part of a larger plan. And without Michael away from the island, they couldn’t have stuck him on the boar as Kevin Johnson. How much of his future does Ben already know? He apparently had no fear of death from the Losties because he’s seen himself alive in the future. I watched an episode recently on the internet (they are ALL available on ABC/Hulu) where Ben was in the hatch cell. My suspicion is that he did get trapped on purpose, but once he got his first hand look at the Losties, he needed to use Michael as a means of escape. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/189 "2009-02-18T14:59:28Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > I watched an episode recently on the internet (they are ALL available on ABC/Hulu) where Ben was in the hatch cell. > > My suspicion is that he did get trapped on purpose, but once he got his first hand look at the Losties, he needed to use Michael as a means of escape. Makes sense. The Others knew he was in there–there were plenty of cameras watching the hatch. And I’ve always assumed he was able to communicate with them, to some extent. In fact, I wondered why Harper didn’t just teleport her butt in there, but then I realized that she hates Ben. Then again, that raises yet another unanswered questions–how is it that Harper has astral projection powers and nobody else does? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/190 "2009-02-18T15:44:32Z")
Refresh my memory here Gfactor - who’s Harper, again? ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/191 "2009-02-18T15:58:02Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Refresh my memory here Gfactor - who’s Harper, again? I forgot also and had to look her up on Lostpedia. [Harper Stanhope](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Harper) ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/192 "2009-02-18T16:29:44Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Does that timeline work though? I thought the Aussie guy (who’s friends with Hurley’s nuthouse buddy) heard the numbers in the late '50s, early '60s–about 10 years before Dharma got there. Nope, they heard the numbers in the 80’s ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/193 "2009-02-18T16:50:00Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Nope, they heard the numbers in the 80’s I doubted this at first, but here is the transcript: > [@](#): > > MARTHA: Sam and Leonard were stationed at a listening post monitoring long wave transmissions out of the Pacific. Boring job. Sam hated it, **nothing to do but listen to static night after night. Until one night, about 16 years ago, there’s something in the static, a voice comes through,** a voice repeating those numbers over and over again. A couple of days later we’re at the fair in Kalgoorlie and some wally there has got this jar, must have been big as a pony, and it’s filled to the rim with beans. Fella’s offering 50 grand to anyone able to guess how many beans are in that jar, within 10. [http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Numbers\_transcript](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Numbers_transcript) Curiouser and curiouser. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/194 "2009-02-18T16:54:17Z")
Wouldn’t surprise me if they heard it the same day the Frenchies did. Maybe the signal was boosted for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/195 "2009-02-18T17:03:57Z")
Couple thoughts: 1. They may have been recorded right around that time (possibly by Hurley) in order to set off the whole Rube Goldberg chain of events that gets everybody to the island. 2. While they weren’t being broadcast before then, they were “somebody’s” numbers because they were part of the whole punch-the-numbers-in-to-prevent-the-sky-from-turning-purple deal in the hatch, which was set up some time between Jughead and the beginning of Dharma. 3. [spoiler]Damon has already said we’re not getting an explanation that will satisfy us: Damon Lindelof "There are some questions that are very engaging and interesting, and then there are other questions that we have no interest whatsoever in answering. We call it the midi-chlorian debate, because at a certain point, explaining something mystical demystifies it. To try and have a character come and say, “Here is what the numbers mean,” actually makes every usage of the numbers up to that point less interesting. You can actually watch Star Wars now, and when Obi-Wan talks about the Force to Luke for the first time, it loses its luster because the Force has been explained as, sort of, little biological agents that are in your blood stream. So you go, “Oh, I liked Obi-Wan’s version a lot better.” Which in the case of our show is, “The numbers are bad luck, they keep popping up in Hurley’s life, they appear on the island.” … But if you’re watching the show for a detailed explanation of what the numbers mean—and I’m not saying you won’t see more of them—then you will be disappointed by the end of season six." from the lostpedia entry on numbers So, I’m liking the ill-explained time loop deal where maybe Hurley is pressed to record them so they can broadcast them so Leonard can hear them so Hurley can win the lottery explanation.[/Spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f1d935/32.png) [@Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dilton_Doiley_Philosopher_King)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/196 "2009-02-18T18:17:06Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > I watched an episode recently on the internet (they are ALL available on ABC/Hulu) where Ben was in the hatch cell. I have seen this show all the way through, but have season only each episode once. Any suggestions on episodes to watch given recent transformations on the island? …something to either put that episode in perspective, or something interesting or big explained recently that now explains something else because of that episode. ---
**Author:** ![Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f1d935/32.png) [@Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dilton_Doiley_Philosopher_King)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/197 "2009-02-18T18:23:12Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > I don’t think Christian is alive. He’s either a Hurely-type apparation, a monster reanimation like Yemi, or some other Jacob related apparation. The fact that he couldn’t help Locke in the cave makes it seem like he’s incorporeal. Was Christian resurrected on the island because he was already dead when he got there? If so, then he seems like he’s not special at all. Did Jacob look like Christian before Christian’s body crashed on the island, and if not, who was Jacob before-hand? Is Ben going to get himself killed so he can be resurrected on the island when the O6 take Locke back? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/198 "2009-02-18T18:37:19Z")
> [@Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](#): > > Did Jacob look like Christian before Christian’s body crashed on the island, and if not, who was Jacob before-hand? Well said. You truly are a Philospher King. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/199 "2009-02-18T18:46:10Z")
I think Christian was really resurrected and then “possessed” in a way by Jacob, I think it’s because he is special. It’s possible that if he was found at a young age he could have been the next leader of the Others. I don’t think he’s just an apparition because he does have a sense of who he is, and the Claire and Jack are his kids. It’s possible that Jacob choose him because Aaron might the next leader. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/200 "2009-02-19T18:05:34Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I’m drawing a blank. > Was that in a past episode that Danielle said that? Who did she say it to? Was it in front of the temple? In Exodus Part 1 when she’s leading some of the Losties to the Black Rock, which is in an area of the island she refers to as the “Dark Territory”. They don’t pass by the temple specifically, but they do venture through that area of the island, known for the Black Rock and for being the primary territory of the smoke monster. > [@](#): > > DANIELLE: Le Territoire Fonce. > JACK: The Dark Territory. > DANIELLE: The Black Rock is not far. This is where it all began – where my team got infected – where Montand lost his arm. We must move quickly. > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Wouldn’t surprise me if they heard it the same day the Frenchies did. Maybe the signal was boosted for some reason. It was the same year, 1988, so maybe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401.md?page=9)