# Lost 5.5 "This Place Is Death" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 11, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401 "2009-02-11T18:35:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/161 "2009-02-13T22:20:50Z")
Also, in regard to Charlotte’s parentage, it was said she was born in “Essex, England to parents David and Jeannette and was raised in Bromsgrove, Worcestershire, England along with two younger sisters.” Of course, the source was Ben… ETA: Her parents could also be the DeGroots. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/162 "2009-02-14T00:05:04Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > and why was he crying? Is Faraday just a softie, or did he know someone on the plane (from his time travels?). I haven’t seen that episode since it first aired, but I believe the woman asked him why he was crying, and all he said was, “I don’t know.” ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/163 "2009-02-14T01:49:45Z")
> [@Pyper](#): > > Okay, based on last night’s episode, I’ve formulated some ideas about the Others, the Temple, the Smoke Monster, and the Island. > > I think the Others are the Island’s way of protecting itself. They are the white blood cells that attack outsiders invading the Island, which explains why the Others attacked the U.S. Army, Dharma, and the Lostaways. > > How do you become an Other? You enter the Temple. As we saw last night, people who enter the Temple immediately become changed. The armless guy who fell down the hole immediately began trying to lure the rest of the French team in. Once they had all entered the temple, they became “Others” and then tried to kill the one member of the team who had not entered the temple, and thus was not “of” the Island. > > Ever wonder how the Others got all those tail section folks they kidnapped to join them? And why, when we do see people from the tail section again, they seem so placid about being kidnapped by weirdoes in the jungle? They’ve been Otherized in the Temple! > > Who becomes an Other? The Smoke Monster is the Island’s recruiter. Based on some criteria of “good people” and “bad people,” it either tries to bring a person to the Temple to be Otherized (Locke) or kills that person (Eko, the pilot). The Others themselves recruit more Others based on the same criteria of good and bad. This also ties in with why we’ve occasionally seen the Smoke Monster showing images of a person’s life (Eko) and possibly taking pictures of people (Juliet and Kate). It’s analyzing the person for inclusion or exclusion from the Island. > > Tangentially, I believe Juliet has not been to the Temple to be Otherized. She was not recruited because she was “a good person,” but rather because the Others were desperate for a fertility specialist. Her goal does not seem to be to protect the Island like the other Others, but rather to leave it and return home. I like the theory. My only big question is why the BSM needs to get others to recruit for it. From what we’ve seen, it seems to be pretty much totally unstoppable. Why go through the trouble when you can just grab them and drag them in? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Pyper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pyper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyper)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/164 "2009-02-14T03:50:46Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > I like the theory. My only big question is why the BSM needs to get others to recruit for it. From what we’ve seen, it seems to be pretty much totally unstoppable. > > Why go through the trouble when you can just grab them and drag them in? > > -Joe I don’t think it needs others to recruit for it, as much as that the Smoke Monster and the Others are on the same mission of recruitment and protection of the Island. As far as the armless guy goes, he could also have been dead at that point as someone above mentioned and it was the Smoke Monster itself using his voice to lure more people in. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/165 "2009-02-14T04:08:18Z")
> [@mshar253](#): > > Yes, **Merijeek** , from all indications, Charlotte is dead. But, will she **stay** dead? * * * ## I loved Christian Shepard’s line – something to the effect of “Since when did listening to Ben Linus get you anywhere you wanted to be?” So I want to know how close the Orchid is to the Swan. Because it was the Orchid station that Ben used to access the Icy Wheel of Death to move the island last season, and of course, John went down the well at the Orchid this time. (By the way, he didn’t have to climb down – just wait for the next flash or two, and maybe the Orchid would be back, yeah?) BUT, it was the emergency at the Swan at the start of this season where Dr. Cheng/Candle/Wickman/Waxhead/Tallowbottom was called to, and they had the x-ray/sonogram/whatsitthingy that showed the frozen wheel behind the wall. So if the wheel is below the Orchid, why is it showing up behind the wall at the Swan when the Dharmites are trying to drill through the undrillable rock? * * * French dude getting his arm ripped off was pretty freaky! Sweeeet. I liked that they showed us the final showdown between Danielle and Robert. And making it fit in with the first time Danielle told that story to Sayid (Robert’s gun having no ammo, just like Danielle did to the gun that Sayid grabbed). * * * > [@Fenris](#): > > Did anyone else notice that around the temple where Smokey’s lair was (when all the Crazy French Chick’s people went down the hole), there were the doomsday glyphs (from the button-pushing station if you don’t hit the button every 108 minutes) on the wall? Yep! Now it appears we know the origin of the Defcon Penguin glyph. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/166 "2009-02-14T04:10:56Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > BUT, it was the emergency at the Swan at the start of this season where Dr. Cheng/Candle/Wickman/Waxhead/Tallowbottom was called to, and they had the x-ray/sonogram/whatsitthingy that showed the frozen wheel behind the wall. So if the wheel is below the Orchid, why is it showing up behind the wall at the Swan when the Dharmites are trying to drill through the undrillable rock? > ) No, the emergency was at the unfinished Orchid station. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/167 "2009-02-14T04:13:29Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > So I want to know how close the Orchid is to the Swan. Because it was the Orchid station that Ben used to access the Icy Wheel of Death to move the island last season, and of course, John went down the well at the Orchid this time. (By the way, he didn’t have to climb down – just wait for the next flash or two, and maybe the Orchid would be back, yeah?) > > BUT, it was the emergency at the Swan at the start of this season where Dr. Cheng/Candle/Wickman/Waxhead/Tallowbottom was called to, and they had the x-ray/sonogram/whatsitthingy that showed the frozen wheel behind the wall. So if the wheel is below the Orchid, why is it showing up behind the wall at the Swan when the Dharmites are trying to drill through the undrillable rock? The emergency was at the Orchid: > [@](#): > > MAN: Dr. Chang! Dr. Chang? > > CHANG: Damn it! What the hell?! > > DIRECTOR: Cut! > > MAN: Sir, we got a problem down at the Orchid. [http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Because\_You\_Left\_transcript](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Because_You_Left_transcript) ---
**Author:** ![ekweizn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7c8e57/32.png) [@ekweizn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekweizn)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/168 "2009-02-14T04:14:27Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > BUT, it was the emergency at the Swan at the start of this season where Dr. Cheng/Candle/Wickman/Waxhead/Tallowbottom was called to, and they had the x-ray/sonogram/whatsitthingy that showed the frozen wheel behind the wall. This was at the Orchid. Edit: Nice. Third reply! > [@Monstre](#): > > I liked that they showed us the final showdown between Danielle and Robert. And making it fit in with the first time Danielle told that story to Sayid (Robert’s gun having no ammo, just like Danielle did to the gun that Sayid grabbed). Almost–she pulled the firing pins in both guns. Good observation though. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/169 "2009-02-14T04:26:29Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > 1. What if the Doomsday button really WAS a Doomsday button? Things got considerably weirder after it blew up. What if they did die? Maybe the characters are in Purgatory or something? I think this was a theory from as early as the first season. And the creators have said (in a podcast or some such) that they are not in Purgatory. Although… the author of the real novel that came out, called “Evil Twin”, presumably who died in the Oceanic 815 crash, later retro-fitted to be the guy who got sucked into the engine in the first episode, was “Gary Troup”. Anagram of Purgatory. > [@](#): > > 1. Has anyone gone BACK to The Hatch after the Doomsday button didn’t get pushed? It imploded. Big scorched and blackened hole in the ground. > [@](#): > > 1. Why “The Orchid” for time travel or energy generation? Why (I think) “The Swan” for the Doomsday Button? Why “The Flame” for chatting with Dharma? Do the names have any relevance to what’s inside? The Dharmites were obviously hippies. They drove a hippie van, lived essentially in a commune. They were probably stoned when they came up with the names. > [@](#): > > 1. Wait—we saw (last week) the army guys who set up the Numbers antenna that were picked up by the Aussie Guy and the loonie-bin guy who contaminated Hurley. What if The Numbers are what messed up the Crazy French Chick’s friends somehow? The Numbers possess you or something? You could hear them broadcasting on the Crazy French Folk’s walkie talkies. The numbers broadcast was what drew the Frenchies towards the island, where they crashed in the storm, in the first place – if I recall one of Danielle’s stories from an earlier season correctly. It was broadcasting from the radio tower until Danielle replaced it with her own looped emergency call. > [@](#): > > 1. I bet that Charlotte’s death forces Daniel to rethink his “What happened, happened” theory. Which, I note, he has no emperical evidence for (that we know of). I wouldn’t think that Charlotte’s death would make him re-think it. I’d say that Charlotte’s death **reinforces** this theory. When she realized that Daniel was the crazy man who, in her youth, told her to leave the island and never come back, because she would die if she did, she was scared shitless. I’d say the reason she was so scared was that she just realized she was **going** to die – because the only reason time-jumping Daniel would give her that warning as a little girl was that he’d **seen** her die as an adult. The loop just came full circle. Daniel apparently later will try to warn her anyways, hoping to change the course of events – but he hasn’t changed the course of events. Unless something happens in a future episode to negate her death. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/170 "2009-02-14T04:28:28Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > No, the emergency was at the unfinished Orchid station. Thanks – I mis-remembered. > [@ekweizn](#): > > Almost–she pulled the firing pins in both guns. Good observation though. Thanks – I was close. Mis-remembered this one too, but only in this particular detail. I remembered that her original telling of this came from the Sayid episode, when we first met her. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/171 "2009-02-14T04:39:26Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > One thing that has me all :dubious: was the whole “EVERYONE MUST GO BACK” thing. Then, when only half of them show at the church, Eloise is all, “D’ok… I guess this’ll have to do, then…” Well, I don’t think Eloise is going to send those few back now – just start explaining a few things, maybe? And we still have yet to see how Locke really fits into this, because apparently his “death” is the thing that first convinces Jack that “We have to go back!” We haven’t yet seen the part where he starts going by codename Jeremy Bentham. And I wonder when the conflict involving Penny going **with** Desmond will show up. Obviously, Charles Widmore didn’t want her going with Des to L.A., because that’s where Ben is. And we know Ben wants to kill Penny to hurt Widmore, as revenge for Alex. Speaking of Ben – I loved his little slam-on-the-brakes-and-be-indignant act! After Jack says that if Ben is lying about Jin, Jack will kill Ben himself… Ben ranting about “do you know how much I’ve been doing to keep you people safe!!!” Hahahah! After all the lies and manipulation you’ve put them through, and you’re surprised they don’t trust you? That was amusing. The rant was probably just another part of the manipulation. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/172 "2009-02-14T04:52:46Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > One thing I’ve noticed, that I find slightly ham-handed, is whenever there’s a sort of mystery question asked like this, i.e., “Say hello to my son.” “Who’s your son?” the _very next shot_ (usually a scene change) answers the last question from the last scene. In the case of my example, right after Locke asks “Who’s your son?” the next cut is to Jack’s face. We know Jack is Christian’s son, so that was no big revelation. But they always give us a big fat clue, if we’re paying attention. Nice point. And I notice that they actually did that last week after Jack got done talking to Claire’s mom, then came back to the car and told Kate, “It isn’t her trying to take Aaron. She’s here to collect an Oceanic settlement. She doesn’t know that Aaron exists.” Kate: “If it isn’t her trying to take Aaron… then who?” ::: shot cuts to Ben, in vehicle with Sayid ::: Camera jump being a little foreshadow, before they actually pull into the garage and we find out that the asswipe-lawyer is Ben’s lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/173 "2009-02-14T05:06:49Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > The Dharmites were obviously hippies. They drove a hippie van, lived essentially in a commune. They were probably stoned when they came up with the names. > > . I think they had all the crazy names to keep the various stations secret from each other. So someone working at The Flame doesn’t know that the Orchid is anymore than a greenhouse. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/174 "2009-02-14T06:38:10Z")
So did anybody see this article/synopsis, from Jeff Jensen on EW? [Linkety-link-link](http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,1550612_20245769_20258523,00.html?xid=email-whattowatch-lastnight-%27Lost%27+recap%3A+Married+to+it) Contains an interesting theory on why the O6 have to get back to the island – see pages 4-5. Check it out. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/175 "2009-02-14T21:03:44Z")
I’m definitely enjoying the show, and really enjoying the new season, but I have to point something out as being one of Lost’s lingering annoyances. Please indulge my fantasy scenemaking: Ben: “It’ll take thirty minutes minutes to get there.” Sun: “Let’s go.” \ Jack: “Okay, so, this drive will be thirty minutes?” Ben: “Twenty-nine minutes now, Jack.” Jack: “Fine. Whatever. A fair amount of time. We could stare out the window on the way, or we could… talk.” Ben: “What should we talk about, Jack?” Jack: “Oh, I don’t know. The weather. High school football. Maybe WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON.” Ben: \ “…It’s complicated.” Jack: “It can’t be THAT complicated. We have half an hour to kill. Half an hour. If you start talking now, I bet you can give us a pretty good summary in half an hour. What the hell else are we going to talk about?” Ben: “You really want to know?” Jack: “Sun, what do you think?” Sun: “Actually, I think we should bicker instead, and then finish the trip in uncomfortable silence.” Jack: “Mmm, all right, sounds good.” ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/176 "2009-02-15T01:41:27Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Jack: “Oh, I don’t know. The weather. High school football. Maybe WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON.” > > Ben: \ “…It’s complicated.” Everyone’s always castigating the “it’s complicated” thing, but IIRC, the characters on Lost seldom if ever actually say “it’s complicated.” What they do say frequently is “there’s no time to explain, we have to keep moving,” or some variation thereof. Which, in a way, is worse, because it even more directly implies what you’ve described: that for some reason we should accept that it’s impossible to drive down the street or walk through the jungle and talk at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/177 "2009-02-15T02:12:03Z")
I think everyone has realized that it’s pointless to ask Ben questions, because you have no idea if he’s telling the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/178 "2009-02-15T20:46:43Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I think everyone has realized that it’s pointless to ask Ben questions, because you have no idea if he’s telling the truth. I think everyone has realized that it’s pointless to ask anyone on Lost questions, because instead of answering the question, they respond with another question, change the subject, reply “there’s no time to explain” or “that’s not important right now,” or are interrupted by a sudden thunderstorm or by someone crashing out of the jungle to deliver shocking news. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ekweizn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7c8e57/32.png) [@ekweizn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekweizn)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/179 "2009-02-15T20:54:36Z")
Would anyone prefer that Ben/Faraday/Jack/Locke give an expository answer that will kill suspense and/or any drama that’s going to unfold? I’m willing to suspend disbelief for better storytelling. At least the writers bother to have the characters ask some of the right questions… ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401/180 "2009-02-15T21:42:19Z")
> [@ekweizn](#): > > Would anyone prefer that Ben/Faraday/Jack/Locke give an expository answer that will kill suspense and/or any drama that’s going to unfold? I’m willing to suspend disbelief for better storytelling. Better storytelling would involve its being _plausible_ that no one has been able to ask the right people the right questions at the right time yet. -FrL- [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-5-this-place-is-death/485401.md?page=10)