# Lost 5.7 "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham"
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [February 25, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396 "2009-02-25T18:43:40Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/41 "2009-02-26T04:59:32Z")
First off, I really can’t stand Jack or Kate’s whinyness any longer. They are not interesting & I could give a shit about Kate’s love life.
Second, resurrection? Really? I know, I know - smoke monster, time travel, islands disappearing into thin air, I can take all that, but… dead bodies getting up and walking around? _sigh_ I was hoping it was going to be some kind of big conspiracy where Locke & Ben faked his death (up until the point where he killed him) but no.
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### Author:  [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/42 "2009-02-26T05:07:24Z")
Man, there was a dead guy walking around since before we even knew about the others.
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### Author:  [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/43 "2009-02-26T05:09:53Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#):
>
> Man, there was a dead guy walking around since before we even knew about the others.
If that’s referring to Jack’s father, I just always assumed it was some kind of apparition of the island, not that it was actually his physical body walking around in the same way that Locke is.
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### Author:  [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/44 "2009-02-26T05:14:18Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#):
>
> Is Caesar the guy from Three Kings? The “my main man” guy who tortured Mark Wahlberg?
Yep. He got lots of shout-outs in last week’s thread.
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### Author:  [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/45 "2009-02-26T05:14:36Z")
And actually, given that Kate saw the ghost horsie, the “apparition of the island” theory makes sense. There wasn’t any horsie on the original flight.
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### Author:  [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/46 "2009-02-26T05:21:57Z")
Are we even sure it was a ghost horse and not a dharma horse? We know that Sawyer saw it too.
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### Author:  [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/47 "2009-02-26T05:25:59Z")
> [@Monstre](#):
>
> It seems like John is dying too soon. Jack hasn’t had time to grow his beard out yet, but he’s got the full terrorist beard when he sees John’s (ahem… ermm… Jeremy Bentham’s) obit.
It’s a matter of a couple of days at most. Recall the flashforward from the end of Season 3, when Jack finds “Benthem’s” obit in the newspaper flying back from his weekend trip to Sydney, which apparently started in tonight’s episode. That’s a heck of a beard to grow over a weekend. 🙂
And just to be clear, its no big deal that Jack got on a plane after seeing Locke in the hospital…recall he was using his Golden Ticket every weekend…another Linus manipulation.
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### Author:  [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/48 "2009-02-26T05:36:46Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#):
>
> And just to be clear, its no big deal that Jack got on a plane after seeing Locke in the hospital…recall he was using his Golden Ticket every weekend…another Linus manipulation.
So Jack was using his golden ticket every weekend. He told that to Kate, what, like the first flash-forward episode way back when? He said he’d been flying hoping to crash again, right? But just hoping to die, not crash on the island? Cuz supposedly he didn’t want to go back to the island until John died, or John convinced him. Or did he secretly want to go back to the island? How long was he jetting around on weekends?
Argh, so confused!
Re: Kate and Sawyer (hailed by ABC as, like, the thing we’ve all been waiting for, n’ stuff)…I wonder if their re-meeting is so important because of what he whispered to her in the helicopter, and she ended up doing behind Jack’s back?
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### Author:  [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/49 "2009-02-26T05:50:15Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#):
>
> So Jack was using his golden ticket every weekend. He told that to Kate, what, like the first flash-forward episode way back when? He said he’d been flying hoping to crash again, right? But just hoping to die, not crash on the island? Cuz supposedly he didn’t want to go back to the island until John died, or John convinced him. Or did he secretly want to go back to the island? How long was he jetting around on weekends?
Timeline:
Jack starts to grow beard.
John comes and visits him, and apparently convinces him.
Jack starts to fly back and forth, lets beard grow longer.
John dies.
Jack reads obit on the plane, tries to kill self.
Jack tells Kate that they have to go back.
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### Author:  [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/50 "2009-02-26T06:05:42Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#):
>
> Timeline:
> Jack starts to grow beard.
> John comes and visits him, and apparently convinces him.
> Jack starts to fly back and forth, lets beard grow longer.
> John dies.
> Jack reads obit on the plane, tries to kill self.
> Jack tells Kate that they have to go back.
That still doesn’t make sense. If Jack started flying _every_ weekend after Locke talked to him, you would assume it was more than one or two weekends. But Locke seemed to have died very shortly after having spoken with Jack. The obituary would have been published in, what, a couple days?
I might not be explaining this very well (it’s late, after all), but it still doesn’t make sense, and I’m a Lost apologist.
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### Author:  [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/51 "2009-02-26T06:14:10Z")
Like I said before, we don’t know when John died in relation to his discussion with Jack. Yeah, it was basically the next scene, but it could have been a few weeks. I think the point of showing Jack with less of a beard was a way of saying “this is a while before John dies.”
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### Author:  [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/52 "2009-02-26T06:26:33Z")
Although it really did look like the murder was in response to his knowing the name ‘Eloise Hawking’, I’m wondering if maybe Ben killed John mostly because of Sun. John was going to tell her Jin was dead if he saw her. Assuming that Ben knew that Sun was gunning for him, it would be self-preservation to silence John and give the ring to Sun along with the news of Jin’s survival. In addition it would, as we’ve seen, help to get her on the plane.
Just an idea.
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### Author:  [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/53 "2009-02-26T06:29:00Z")
Did John tell him about Sun before or after he took off the noose?
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### Author:  [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/54 "2009-02-26T06:32:52Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#):
>
> Like I said before, we don’t know when John died in relation to his discussion with Jack. Yeah, it was basically the next scene, but it could have been a few weeks. I think the point of showing Jack with less of a beard was a way of saying “this is a while before John dies.”
Which would certainly account for the beard, but if it’s been several weeks, what’s John been doing for those weeks inbetween? Jack was his last attempt, so has he just been sitting in a hotel room moping around, convincing himself that life sucks? And unless he was moving around, Ben would have found him and come to find out what he was up to long before the suicide attempt.
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### Author:  [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/55 "2009-02-26T06:36:19Z")
> [@Monstre](#):
>
> Which would certainly account for the beard, but if it’s been several weeks, what’s John been doing for those weeks inbetween? Jack was his last attempt, so has he just been sitting in a hotel room moping around, convincing himself that life sucks?
From what we saw of John before the island, that really wouldn’t surprise me.
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### Author:  [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/56 "2009-02-26T07:19:08Z")
> [@Monstre](#):
>
> …And unless he was moving around, Ben would have found him and come to find out what he was up to long before the suicide attempt.
I would guess that Ben was watching him. Otherwise it seems too coincidental that he would show up right at that moment. And it explains why he felt the need to force the door!
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### Author:  [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/57 "2009-02-26T12:39:17Z")
So then, did Ben not know that Locke would become Zombie-Locke when they got back to the island? Seemed Eloise sure did.
Also, Didn’t Ben say that once he left the island, he couldn’t return? Another lie, but why lie about that?
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### Author:  [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/58 "2009-02-26T13:15:52Z")
Because Ben _always_ lies. Even when the truth would serve him better.
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### Author:  [@PigBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigBoy)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/59 "2009-02-26T14:11:08Z")
Another mystery this week: why did Lapidus and “some woman” apparently run off with the 316 passenger list in the middle of the night, and who is the woman? I’m not coming up with any good theories on this.
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### Author:  [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)
#### Post date: [February 26, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-7-the-life-and-death-of-jeremy-bentham/487396/60 "2009-02-26T14:29:30Z")
If I was on that plane & saw people go Poof before my plane crashed, I’d be saying “Damn. Those crazy ass rapture/Left Behind jerks were right!”
Anyway, if Locke’s mission was so important to Widmore, why didn’t Widmore get back in touch with him once Abbadon was killed and it was obvious Locke was failing? You mean rich, powerful (evil) Widmore wasn’t watching him? Don’t buy that.
Like this new guy, who was apparently in 3Kings, which I never saw. He and his character make a good first impression.
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