# Lost 5.8 "LaFleur" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 4, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302 "2009-03-04T18:55:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/61 "2009-03-05T14:38:32Z")
At least the ‘Others’ extensive foreknowledge of the crash victims makes a hell of a lot more sense now. That really bothered me a few seasons ago. Anyone got any guesses about the four toed ‘Statue of Rhodes’? ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/62 "2009-03-05T15:02:00Z")
Has it been explained why the Others and the Dharmites can’t just, well, get along? Why can’t Richard and the Others share the island? Also, any speculation about why Sayid and Sun didn’t flash back to Dharma time? Of course my biggest question mark centers on why our flashers didn’t take the first sub to Tahiti. And why the women on the island stopped being able to have babies. Is it only the “Others’” women who had this problem by the way? Re the love triangle/square idiocy: I was rooting for Kate and Sawyer only because I like the Sawyer character so much. Now that he’s found something seemingly more real, I don’t want Kate (or Ben or whoever) to mess it up. Oh and I want more Miles, please. Sawyer’s eyeliner remark was just the best thing ever. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/63 "2009-03-05T15:08:07Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Is it only the “Others’” women who had this problem by the way? Can’t be, because Juliet was all concerned about Sun, because she’d conceived on the island. So, nope. Not just Otherized women. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Shark\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Shark\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/64 "2009-03-05T15:17:44Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Anyone got any guesses about the four toed ‘Statue of Rhodes’? I know the timeline doesn’t work (right now), but didn’t Sawyer lose a toe in one episode? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/65 "2009-03-05T15:24:39Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > I swear, if Kate screws over Juliet romantically TWICE, I’m going to go ballistic. Juliet is just such a better character. She better not just give up Sawyer! She already backed up with Jack because she saw what was going on between him and Kate. I agree. Let Jack and Kate wallow in their own whiney angst of suckitude and let Sawyer and Juliet (along with Desmond and Penny\*, Hurley and a few others) live happily ever after. Blech. Kate and Jack suck \*Beatles references? Penny Lane? Desmond has a barrow in the marketplace? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/66 "2009-03-05T15:25:02Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Anyone got any guesses about the four toed ‘Statue of Rhodes’? Keep in mind that we didn’t see the feet of the statue, but we’re assuming that it’s the same as the four-toed one we saw in the second-season episode “Live Together, Die Alone.” Given that, I’m curious about one thing. So if it was intact in 1974 but only one foot remained in 2004, what happened to the rest of it? It appears to be made of stone, so even if it fell, the remains should have been present. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/67 "2009-03-05T15:29:59Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Also, any speculation about why Sayid and Sun didn’t flash back to Dharma time? We don’t know that they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/68 "2009-03-05T15:30:54Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Can’t be, because Juliet was all concerned about Sun, because she’d conceived on the island. > > So, nope. Not just Otherized women. > > -Joe Which leads me to a theory I’m develping. It seems that whatever caused the baby making problem hasn’t happened yet (circa 1977). Probably “The Incident” that resulted in the button in the Swan hasn’t happened yet. So maybe our guys somehow caused these problems. And this island has brought them “back” to fix the problems that they caused in the past. The natural objection to this is that if the island didn’t bring Ocianic 815 onto the island, those problems never would have happend and needed to be fixed. However, there is a theory of space-time that says that the future and the past are all the same thing and are equeally fixed. We just don’t experince them that way. Perhaps the island is a point on the earth from which the greater spacetime whole can be expericend/viewed. And everthing with the O815 survivors is part of the same thing. O something like that. Anyway: Future is past/Past is future. Timey-wimey Wibbley-wobbley. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/69 "2009-03-05T15:32:36Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Will our folks in the 70’s be able to avoid the purge? Will there BE a purge? I thought of a weird-assed theory last night 1. The only “evidence” we have that “Whatever happened, happened” is from whatshisname–the stammery science guy. Who, in the ONLY field test we’ve seen, contradicted his theory. Saying “Yeah, but Desmond’s special” doesn’t change the fact that “Whatever happened, happened” is demonstrably not 100% true. 2. We keep getting told, over and over and over that there’s something special about this sub-group of losties (Sawyer/Kate/Jack/Hurley/Jin/Sun/John) and a few others. That the island NEEDS them. 3. What if they’re “special” too–in the same way Desmond is/was\*. Maybe the first place things went awry is when little Benjy Linus killed all the Dharmoids. Perhaps The Island went to such efforts to save them 'cause they’ll be able to change things. \*Note that Desmond was “special” BEFORE the Swan blew up. It wasn’t getting a face full of Dharma-radiation in the face that did it. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/70 "2009-03-05T15:36:23Z")
Does anybody know why it was so important for Richard to carry a body back to his people? It seems to be a weird request. As the leader of his people couldn’t he just say to them, “I saw the body of a man whom I believe was shot by our missing comrades.” ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/71 "2009-03-05T15:38:55Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Keep in mind that we didn’t see the feet of the statue, but we’re assuming that it’s the same as the four-toed one we saw in the second-season episode “Live Together, Die Alone.” Given that, I’m curious about one thing. So if it was intact in 1974 but only one foot remained in 2004, what happened to the rest of it? It appears to be made of stone, so even if it fell, the remains should have been present. The statue wasn’t in 1974…they flashed to 1974 AFTER the flash to the statue. Remember? When the statue was there, the well wasn’t built yet…and the well is OLD. My guess, that flash was to thousands of years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/72 "2009-03-05T15:39:34Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Does anybody know why it was so important for Richard to carry a body back to his people? > > It seems to be a weird request. As the leader of his people couldn’t he just say to them, “I saw the body of a man whom I believe was shot by our missing comrades.” I assumed it was corroboration of Sawyer’s self-defense claim. “Our guys attacked first, violating the truce. An outsider shot them in self-defense. Justice has been done.” OR “They shot our guys, so I executed one of theirs–here’s the body.” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/73 "2009-03-05T15:41:56Z")
> [@Trion](#): > > Which leads me to a theory I’m develping. It seems that whatever caused the baby making problem hasn’t happened yet (circa 1977). Probably “The Incident” that resulted in the button in the Swan hasn’t happened yet. > > So maybe our guys somehow caused these problems. And this island has brought them “back” to fix the problems that they caused in the past. > > The natural objection to this is that if the island didn’t bring Ocianic 815 onto the island, those problems never would have happend and needed to be fixed. > > However, there is a theory of space-time that says that the future and the past are all the same thing and are equeally fixed. We just don’t experince them that way. Perhaps the island is a point on the earth from which the greater spacetime whole can be expericend/viewed. And everthing with the O815 survivors is part of the same thing. > > O something like that. Anyway: Future is past/Past is future. Timey-wimey Wibbley-wobbley. Yeah, basically time is just another dimension of space. If you were to look at a three-dimensional representation of the four dimensional universe, it would look like an elongated tube with each slice being one instant of the life of the universe and the tube running from beginning to end, or infinity if there was no beginning or end. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/74 "2009-03-05T15:42:06Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > The statue wasn’t in 1974…they flashed to 1974 AFTER the flash to the statue. Remember? When the statue was there, the well wasn’t built yet…and the well is OLD. My guess, that flash was to thousands of years ago. OK, thank you. I was kind of distracted while the episode was on so I didn’t catch that they flashed after seeing the statue. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/75 "2009-03-05T15:46:24Z")
> [@Trion](#): > > Sawyer already told Horace that he had other people out there, so that could work. It makes me wonder what job they said Bernard had on a salvage vessel, but I’m sure Sawyer could have come up with something. Bernard was old navy man wasn’t he? He knew Morse code, and I cannot think of any other reason he would know it. Didn’t he say he picked it up in the Navy? Natural fit to be on a scavage boat if he had navy experience. A few random thoughts: - I totally missed the statue. I fast forwarded my DVR past it, because I thought it was all part of the “Previously…” I had no idea ol’ four-toe (along with Adam and Eve, my absolute obsessions on this show) made an appearance. Looks Egyptian to me. - Now we have yet another flashback era to explore. By my count we have: (a) traditional Pre-island (b) O6 3 year gap (c) this Dharma 3 year gap (d) the Benthem flashbacks (different slightly from the 06 three year gap) (e) Pre-crash island, and if you want to get abstract (f) Richard Alpert! - Speaking of Richard, isn’t he freaking awesome? Every scene he’s been in during the whole show’s run has been solid. - Are Sawyer and Juliet married? I didn’t see any ring on her finger, but not all women wear their rings at home. They were certainly domestic partners. Put me down for someone who hopes Kate doesn’t steal Sawyer away. Juliet and Sawyer have incredible chemistry. I fear because Kate is a main character, she’ll win out in the end. Kind of reminds me of the Pam/Jim/Karen triangle on the Office. You knew how it would play out. Look for Juliet to have a noble death before this all ends… - I love Sawyer’s lying. So freaking smooth. He’s been a good guy so long, you forget he used to be a scum bag. The island has really changed him. (I know it has been discussed before, but I really think Josh Holloway would be ideal to play Bigby Wolfe in an adaptation of Fables.) - I think the little redhead girl was symbolic of Charlotte and not Charlotte herself. That girl was at least 8 or 9. I agree it couldn’t have been her. - Nice parralells going on last night involivng the three year gap. First the stroytelling device itself was challenging and well executed. Second, I enjoyed the discussion Sawyer had with Horace about love fading (probably Sawyer’s best scene ever). Third, I noted that both of Amy’s husbands were carried into Othertown on someone else’s back. - Speaking of that, didn’t the HOSTILES break the truce first? Surely, they killed Amy’s first husband and were about to abduct her. Were the Dharmaites basically appeasers? They couldn’t vioalte the truce, but the Hostiles could at any time? - I doubt the chess hand was Mikhail. He is a hostile, not a member of Dharma. I’m guessing it is Ben as well. I look forward to seeing how Sawyer will handle young Ben. - There can be duplicates of people. Remember the Orchid video with the two rabbits. Apparently we just don’t want them touching each other. - I am also intrigued about the location of Rose and Bernard. I think they might be the last of the redshirts. Lotta deaths in this show for uncredited or single named characters. I was looking at Lostpedia the other day, and I was surprised how many Others the Losties took out: [http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/List\_of\_Others](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Others) - Anyone else have the feeling that the battle over first husband’s body was more than just sentimentality? They had to take it. Then the others wanted it. Will we see him back? Are the bodies and “good ones” vessells for other souls? ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/76 "2009-03-05T15:53:21Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > Speaking of that, didn’t the HOSTILES break the truce first? Surely, they killed Amy’s first husband and were about to abduct her. Were the Dharmaites basically appeasers? They couldn’t vioalte the truce, but the Hostiles could at any time? I got the impression that Amy & Paul were breaking the truce by being where they were and having their picnic. I can’t recall exactly what she was saying to the hostiles, but it was something of that nature, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/77 "2009-03-05T15:53:50Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Yeah, basically time is just another dimension of space. If you were to look at a three-dimensional representation of the four dimensional universe, it would look like an elongated tube with each slice being one instant of the life of the universe and the tube running from beginning to end, or infinity if there was no beginning or end. Yeah, that’s what I’m trying to work with here. Starting with the idea that the island is a point in spacetime from which the spacetime tube can be experinced or accessed. I’m trying to work in the idea that Jacob was the guy that the Dharma Initiative hooked into that aspect of the island, only it looks like Jacob was there before Dharma. So that may not work. Or, maybe _when_ he has hooked in doesn’t matter so much. And this is here I have to stop because of the nosebleeds. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/78 "2009-03-05T15:55:58Z")
Just looked back at the little redheaded girl, and she’s much younger than I thought. Maybe 3 or 4. Still doesn’t add up. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/79 "2009-03-05T15:57:07Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > First off, I wet myself when I saw the statue. It was one of the mysteries I’ve been waiting for answers about. I actually paused it for a minute and examined it thoroughly I was that excited. [One thing I noticed though was that it looks like it has something in its hand(s).](http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Image:FourToedFull.jpg) My guess? It’s the ankh. To me, the statue looked like the crazy french chick ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302/80 "2009-03-05T15:59:53Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Does anybody know why it was so important for Richard to carry a body back to his people? Given some of the misbehaving we’ve seen from past Others (hothead Widmore, the two who killed Paul and put a bag over Amy’s head) I’m not so sure Richard could quell the angry natives without a physical trophy of some sort. > [@Fenris](#): > > \*Note that Desmond was “special” BEFORE the Swan blew up. It wasn’t getting a face full of Dharma-radiation in the face that did it. I don’t think there’s any evidence of this. I mean, yeah he was special in the way that others are island-needs-you special. But his future-seeing flashes didn’t happen until the Swan implosion, and it’s heavily implied that his unique nature with regards to being outside the normal time rules is related to that. > [@Trion](#): > > Which leads me to a theory I’m develping. It seems that whatever caused the baby making problem hasn’t happened yet (circa 1977). Put me in the camp of the theory that the island manifests people’s personal issues to some extent, and the pregnancy problem may be related to Ben’s angst over the events of his own birth. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So if it was intact in 1974 but only one foot remained in 2004, what happened to the rest of it? It appears to be made of stone, so even if it fell, the remains should have been present. It wasn’t intact in 1974. Timeline: Unknown: Locke falls down the open well (no statue in background) flash! Ancient period: well is gone and statue is intact superflash! (Locke turns wheel ending further flashes) 1974: Well is back but filled in, statue is no longer intact > [@Shark\_Sandwich](#): > > I know the timeline doesn’t work (right now), but didn’t Sawyer lose a toe in one episode? He injured his foot slightly but didn’t lose a toe. I’m guessing the point of the scene was just quality Sawyer-Juliet time to set up their burgeoning romance. In any case the producers specifically said in the last podcast that they weren’t setting up a Sawyer’s toe / statue connection. > [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Has it been explained why the Others and the Dharmites can’t just, well, get along? Not yet. Clearly, the Others are somewhat territorial about their island, given what happened to the US Army, and this is the basic nature of their conflict. But it has not yet been explained what led to the truce ending. In this episode, though Richard complained about the death of his people, it seemed like they were the initial agressors by killing Paul. But we don’t know why they attacked the picknicers. It would be interesting if the reason for the purge isn’t that the truce actually breaks down to that extent, but if instead because they somehow find out that it’s ‘supposed’ to happen in the future and they don’t want to violate the timeline. > [@Merijeek](#): > > Let me guess, the game lasted like four moves? lol. I don’t remember the outcome of the Hurley game (I imagine he would win with his super luck). For the Ben-Jack game, Jack was doing fairly well, but Ben pulled out a surprise win at the end. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-5-8-lafleur/488302.md?page=5)